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A Forensic Expert Says It’s A Different Species

Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:52 pm
by moetunes
Another interesting read I thought others might like.

Linda Moulton Howe interviews Dr Jeff Meldrum and a long time fingerprint expert who was recently studying primate fingerprints to better understand human fingerprints then looked at Dr Meldrums' sasquatch footprint casts which led him to a conclusion.
[url]https://www.earthfiles.com/2000/03/16/s ... t-species/[//url]

I haven't seen much on casts being taken here in Aus but my bet would be on there being similarities to the ones taken in North America.

Re: A Forensic Expert Says It’s A Different Species

Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:32 am
by Dudlow
While the video is 10 years old, Dr. Meldrum has long been known as a promoter of the notion that Sasquatch is an ape; along with most of the other finding bigfoot type television personalities. Those with significant sighting and encounter experience believe otherwise. With 100% human female mitochondrial DNA it is counterproductive to argue they are not homo of some kind - Homo sapiens cognatus, as Dr. Ketchum formally named them (in conformity with the rules of taxonomy) and which was confirmed and accepted by GenBank. And, of course, the DNA does not lie, indicating Sasquatch is a hybrid of both Homo sapiens and some unknown (novel) primate.

Re: A Forensic Expert Says It’s A Different Species

Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:28 am
by sensesonfire
Dudlow wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:32 am
While the video is 10 years old, Dr. Meldrum has long been known as a promoter of the notion that Sasquatch is an ape; along with most of the other finding bigfoot type television personalities. Those with significant sighting and encounter experience believe otherwise. With 100% human female mitochondrial DNA it is counterproductive to argue they are not homo of some kind - Homo sapiens cognatus, as Dr. Ketchum formally named them (in conformity with the rules of taxonomy) and which was confirmed and accepted by GenBank. And, of course, the DNA does not lie, indicating Sasquatch is a hybrid of both Homo sapiens and some unknown (novel) primate.
Hi Dudlow, yes academia didn't like what she had to say and did they make her pay. Dr. Ketchum identified the mitochondrial DNA as being human but the Y chromosome DNA was indeterminate.

Re: A Forensic Expert Says It’s A Different Species

Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 5:17 pm
by Austral
Dr Ketchum was crucified in the past but I have learnt since it was a conspiracy against proving anything about Bigfoot. The book Truth Denied , the Sasquatch DNA study Is one example.

Re: A Forensic Expert Says It’s A Different Species

Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:57 pm
by Mad Academic
sensesonfire wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:28 am
Dudlow wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:32 am
While the video is 10 years old, Dr. Meldrum has long been known as a promoter of the notion that Sasquatch is an ape; along with most of the other finding bigfoot type television personalities. Those with significant sighting and encounter experience believe otherwise. With 100% human female mitochondrial DNA it is counterproductive to argue they are not homo of some kind - Homo sapiens cognatus, as Dr. Ketchum formally named them (in conformity with the rules of taxonomy) and which was confirmed and accepted by GenBank. And, of course, the DNA does not lie, indicating Sasquatch is a hybrid of both Homo sapiens and some unknown (novel) primate.
Hi Dudlow, yes academia didn't like what she had to say and did they make her pay. Dr. Ketchum identified the mitochondrial DNA as being human but the Y chromosome DNA was indeterminate.
What? Now ghosts/paranormal things from the "x" dimension have mitochondria and Y chromosomes? Pfffttt!
Give me a break! You can't have your cake and eat it, too.

Re: A Forensic Expert Says It’s A Different Species

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:31 pm
by sensesonfire
Mad Academic wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:57 pm
sensesonfire wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:28 am
Dudlow wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:32 am
While the video is 10 years old, Dr. Meldrum has long been known as a promoter of the notion that Sasquatch is an ape; along with most of the other finding bigfoot type television personalities. Those with significant sighting and encounter experience believe otherwise. With 100% human female mitochondrial DNA it is counterproductive to argue they are not homo of some kind - Homo sapiens cognatus, as Dr. Ketchum formally named them (in conformity with the rules of taxonomy) and which was confirmed and accepted by GenBank. And, of course, the DNA does not lie, indicating Sasquatch is a hybrid of both Homo sapiens and some unknown (novel) primate.
Hi Dudlow, yes academia didn't like what she had to say and did they make her pay. Dr. Ketchum identified the mitochondrial DNA as being human but the Y chromosome DNA was indeterminate.
What? Now ghosts/paranormal things from the "x" dimension have mitochondria and Y chromosomes? Pfffttt!
Give me a break! You can't have your cake and eat it, too.
Mad, you need all the breaks you can get I believe that all cryptids have Nephilim DNA nothing to do with ghosts and I believe Dr. Ketchum identified these genes

Re: A Forensic Expert Says It’s A Different Species

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 2:40 pm
by Rusty2
Thanks for showing some restraint fellas .
PLEEEASE be diplomatic to each other . :)

Re: A Forensic Expert Says It’s A Different Species

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 7:41 pm
by Mad Academic
sensesonfire wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:31 pm
Mad Academic wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:57 pm
sensesonfire wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:28 am


Hi Dudlow, yes academia didn't like what she had to say and did they make her pay. Dr. Ketchum identified the mitochondrial DNA as being human but the Y chromosome DNA was indeterminate.
What? Now ghosts/paranormal things from the "x" dimension have mitochondria and Y chromosomes? Pfffttt!
Give me a break! You can't have your cake and eat it, too.
Mad, you need all the breaks you can get I believe that all cryptids have Nephilim DNA nothing to do with ghosts and I believe Dr. Ketchum identified these genes
Your favorite phrase seems to be "I believe...".
No need for proof of any sort then, is there?
So what is "Nephilim DNA" and where has it been sequenced or described?
I'll answer for you: it hasn't been because it doesn't exist.
So now you're believing in something that doesn't exist.

Re: A Forensic Expert Says It’s A Different Species

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:43 pm
by sensesonfire
Mad Academic wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 7:41 pm
sensesonfire wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:31 pm
Mad Academic wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:57 pm


What? Now ghosts/paranormal things from the "x" dimension have mitochondria and Y chromosomes? Pfffttt!
Give me a break! You can't have your cake and eat it, too.
Mad, you need all the breaks you can get I believe that all cryptids have Nephilim DNA nothing to do with ghosts and I believe Dr. Ketchum identified these genes
Your favorite phrase seems to be "I believe...".
No need for proof of any sort then, is there?
So what is "Nephilim DNA" and where has it been sequenced or described?
I'll answer for you: it hasn't been because it doesn't exist.
So now you're believing in something that doesn't exist.
And what proof do you have? we're still waiting on your biological enlightenment on the origins of cryptids. I won't hold my breath.

Dr. Ketchum stated that the male DNA was of unknown origin.
That's enough for me to believe in a supernatural element involved next you'll be telling me the Nephilim never existed well what a minute what would you expect from an academic. You like having a snipe at me because you have been defeated in the past.
Just because you have been offended :cry: doesn't mean you are right so get over yourself.

Re: A Forensic Expert Says It’s A Different Species

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:53 pm
by sensesonfire
Sorry, Rusty2, but this is another one who consistently snipes just a natural-born irritant.

Re: A Forensic Expert Says It’s A Different Species

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:54 pm
by geoff_wilson
I can't understand why people are incapable in believing in the bigfoot and yowie, there's so much evidence right before their eyes! I reckon that the yowie has some supernatural power allowing it to evade capture. It's that or a government conspiracy to stop the world from seeing the truth. One day though we'll be able to prove it's real and see through the government lies!

Re: A Forensic Expert Says It’s A Different Species

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:40 am
by Dudlow
None of my encounters or sightings was supernatural in any way, although I was either stunned by infrasound or went into shock during my first up close and personal encounter when I was a young child. Personally, I regard them as flesh and blood but do not deny the many reports of high strangeness associated with them. Who knows?

Re: A Forensic Expert Says It’s A Different Species

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:28 am
by Bluedog
moetunes wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:52 pm
Another interesting read I thought others might like.

Linda Moulton Howe interviews Dr Jeff Meldrum and a long time fingerprint expert who was recently studying primate fingerprints to better understand human fingerprints then looked at Dr Meldrums' sasquatch footprint casts which led him to a conclusion.
[url]https://www.earthfiles.com/2000/03/16/s ... t-species/[//url]

I haven't seen much on casts being taken here in Aus but my bet would be on there being similarities to the ones taken in North America.
Thanks moetunes i really enjoyed that article, i found the account of the bigfoot foraging for rodent nests on the talus slope very interesting. here is the account as described by Dr Jeff Meldrum



He just sat down taking everything in when all of a sudden into his view came these – this is one of the few reports of what appeared to be a family group, or at least a consort group. There was what looked like a male or female and a young one. And they started rummaging through the rocks. The big male was picking up rocks ­ some of them weighing 40 or 50 pounds, just very gingerly and turning them over and sniffing the under surface and then he would set them down and as he set them down, they would end up in these vertical stacks of these relatively flat rocks.

And he said, suddenly he appeared to pick up the scent of something because he just started digging with his hands by lifting rocks out of this hole until in short order he had a hole that was about 5 feet deep in these rocks. Now if you’ve ever been on these kinds of rocks to do something like that would just take Herculean strength. Anyway, he suddenly came up out of the hole with a big wad of grass and it was a nest, probably one of these rock chucks, not lemmings, but they were these little hibernating rodents curled up in this nest and he pulled the nest apart and pulled out these hibernating rodents and literally just passes them out to the other two and they sit there and much them down head first, whole, chomping them down.

At that point, they apparently picked up his scent or noticed a movement. And suddenly, the male was staring straight at him and uttered some vocalization and the female and youngster scampered up and lit out from behind him and they just melted back into the foliage. And those holes in the rocks are still there. In fact, John Bindernagel went back recently within the past 3 or 4 years and you could actually find the holes and along the area there were areas of stacked rocks adjacent to the holes. And there is a picture of him standing down in one of these holes. The hole comes up to his shoulder almost.

Very interesting article ,this is just a small section of it. the forensic fingerprint experts testimony is hard to ignore, an expert in his field studying both human and primate fingerprints and dermal ridges well worth the read.
thanks for sharing.

Re: A Forensic Expert Says It’s A Different Species

Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 8:34 am
by Mad Academic
sensesonfire wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:53 pm
Sorry, Rusty2, but this is another one who consistently snipes just a natural-born irritant.
It's OK, Rusty. No offence taken.
No doubt I (and other rational people) am an irritant to loonies who believe in "Nephilim" etc.
BTW; I thought this was a site focusing on yowies/sasquatch etc; not "Nephilim"?

Re: A Forensic Expert Says It’s A Different Species

Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:02 am
by Rusty2
In the end , everyone is entitled to their own beliefs BUT no one is entitled to their own facts (controversial). Having said that there are obviously two sides to the story , both parties have a right to speak in the appropriate section .

If you just can't tolerate another user then go to your control panel .
User control panel / Friends and Foes / Manage foes / Add new foes
Posts by these users will not be fully visible . :)

Re: A Forensic Expert Says It’s A Different Species

Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:40 pm
by Arjy
Nephilim in scripture means a tyrent or bully, nothing else. Its part of a metaphoric story.

Re: A Forensic Expert Says It’s A Different Species

Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 2:53 pm
by sensesonfire
:-x
Arjy wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:40 pm
Nephilim in scripture means a tyrent or bully, nothing else. Its part of a metaphoric story.
I can see where you have derived your understanding of who the Nephilim are that being they are heroes from the mythical past-tyrant kings. You are partly correct. Gilgamesh the 4000-year-old giant was a descendant of the Nephilim as were others. But to say they the word Nephilim means a tyrant or bully and nothing else, as well as a metaphoric story, shows a complete ignorance of Biblical text.
How many more times do I have to single out this passage amongst others?
Genesis 6:4.
4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days-and also afterward-when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.
So do you get the picture the sons of God in this case the fallen angels created the Nephilim.
The sons of God are only mentioned five times in the Bible, Genisis 6:2-4, Job 1:6, Job 2:1, Job 38:7. and always referred to as angelic beings. At the introduction of the Book of Job when God is gathering with his angels in his heavenly assembly, the angels are referred to as the sons of God.
The Nephilim were the result of these Angelic beings whom God forbid from descending to Earth however they disobeyed God hence the 200 fallen angels descending upon Mount Hermon in an attempt to destroy the human DNA that God had created. For their disobedience, they were chained up and locked away.

The original Nephilim were giants and I'm not talking about how we would interpret giants today 8-10 ft I'm talking in the 20-foot range. There is visible affirmation today of their existence.

Some AYR members one I can really single out complain when I post a Biblical comment especially on the Main Yowie Forum but instead of deliberately invoking an argument I suggest people refrain from commenting unless you have a good understanding of the Bible. This person, in particular, has none.

If you want to continue an argument go across to the Controversial Conjecture section where I will gladly oblige. It's only because Dr. Melba Ketchum was discussed on A Forensics Expert Says It's a Different Species and her findings that the male line of Bigfoot was of unknown origin that has led me here. :-x

Re: A Forensic Expert Says It’s A Different Species

Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 5:19 pm
by Dion
Topics been moved here.

Re: A Forensic Expert Says It’s A Different Species

Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:27 pm
by Muser
I think the problem with religion is that it is too open to personal interpretation. I'm not particularly religious. I don't adhere to Christian ethics, but the whole subject of religion interests me...so I've spent a little time over the years digging around.

I find it interesting, for example, the story of the flood. Granted, the reason for God to destroy every living thing except the people and animals on the ark...was to rid the world of corruption. This started with Adam and Eve giving the old granny smiths a nudge, Nephilim blood tainting etc.

So I wondered...why did God let Satan into the garden to tempt Eve?? Being all knowing, ever present and all powerful...surely he would have known the outcome of such an encounter. Was it to test free will? (Yes) But if he threw the fallen angels out of heaven for getting a bit above themselves... and the angels are above humans...how did he ever think they wouldn't corrupt humanity, therefore God would have to watch us disappoint him generation after generation.

Then...God turned up in human form in the person of Jesus. Jesus came to offer a way out, through grace. But with the fallen angels still roaming free to corrupt humanity...it almost seems like that was a waste of time. There would be hardly a person alive today that follows Jesus as Jesus wanted us to follow him. (Give up all your worldly possessions...boost both your empathy and humility...no arguing or point proving ; Matt 10-14, Luke 9-5, Mark 6-11 etc)

So why didn't he just destroy the fallen angels he created? If you believe the bible that the Nephilim were still around after the flood (because they were spiritual beings) and they just started over again...why not just destroy them? I know, I know...the bible says he'll get around to it, but there's been a lot of human misery in the past...and a lot more to come yet by not pulling the plug on the fallen angels. If it's true!

I began digging...and the water very quickly got murky.

Going back further than the Christian bible...remembering that Jesus didn't show up to start Christianity...you get to the Hebrew Bible, or Tanakh. It is typically divided into three parts: the Torah, the Ketuviym (the Writings), and the Navi’im (the Prophets.) The Torah is their narrative history.

The Torah includes the five books, as well as the oral traditions in the Talmud and the Midrash. The five books included are Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. These five books were written by Moses. The Torah gives different names to these books: The Bereshiyt (In the Beginning), Shemot (Names), Vayiqra (And He Called), Bemidbar (In the Wilderness), and Devariym (Words.)

The Bible is the completion of the Torah. It is not in opposition to it! What I found interesting is the view of the Nephilim in both and how they got here.

Re: A Forensic Expert Says It’s A Different Species

Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:23 pm
by Muser
An interesting article by noted scholar and researcher Yehuda Shurpin

Nephilim: Fallen Angels, Giants or Men?

Just before the story of Noah’s ark, the Torah presents a cryptic narrative that has mystified and intrigued scholars for generations:

And it came to pass when man commenced to multiply upon the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, that the benei elokim saw the daughters of man when they were beautifying themselves, and they took for themselves wives from whomever they chose. And the L‑rd said, “Let My spirit not quarrel forever concerning man, because he is also flesh, and his days shall be a hundred and twenty years." The nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the benei elokim would come to the daughters of man, and they would bear for them; they are the mighty men, who were of old, the men of renown. (Genesis 6:1–4)

Who or what exactly are the benei elokim? Who are the nephilim? How are they related to each other? And what does it all mean?

One thing benei elokim does not mean is “sons of G‑d.” In fact, Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai would “curse” anyone who translated the term benei elokim as the “sons of G‑d.” The word elokim in Scripture, while generally referring to G‑d, is in essence merely an expression of authority. Similarly, the term benei does not necessarily mean “sons,” but is often just a title. Benei chorin, for example, means those who are free—not “sons of freedom.”

Nephilim seems to be derived from the verb-root naphal, meaning “fall.” From where did they fall? Are they the same as the benei elokim? And if so, why are they called by two names?

The Midrash and commentaries offer three explanations:


Explanation 1: Angels taking a risk


The Midrash relates that when the generation of the Flood went astray, G‑d began to regret having created man. Then two angels, Shamchazai and Azael, came before G‑d and said, “Did we not warn You before You created man, saying, ‘What is man, that You should be mindful of him?" G‑d replied: “Then what shall become of the world?” “We will suffice instead,” they replied. G‑d answered, “I know that would you live on that world, the evil inclination would rule you just as much as it controls man, but you would be even worse.” But the angels persisted, saying: “Let us descend to the world of men, and we will show You how we will sanctify your name.” And G‑d said: “Go down and dwell among them.”

Sure enough, as soon as the angels descended, their evil inclination overpowered them. When they saw the beautiful “daughters of man,” they became corrupted and sinned with them. They and their descendants are the nephilim, the giants and mighty ones referred to later on in the narrative.

This story is often seen as support for the notion of “fallen angels.” But a careful reading reveals that this is not the case. G‑d sent them down knowing full well—and indeed expecting—that they would end up sinning.

In fact, in Judaism there is no such thing as fallen angels or conflict in heaven. There is only one Creator in charge of it all, with no forces opposing Him. Even “Satan” is merely the name of an angel whose divinely assigned task is to tempt people to sin.

While the Midrash’s description of the benei elokim and the nephilim as angels and giants is perhaps the most popular reading, it is not necessarily the most literal one.


Explanation 2: Corrupt Authorities

Based on a more literal translation of benei elokim, many explain that the term is simply referring to princes, noblemen or judges who abused their power, raping anyone they fancied, and forcing any women who got married to have relations with them first. This, together with their many other sins, were what eventually led to the great flood.

There are, however, differences of opinion as to whether the nephilim are simply the benei elokim after they had “fallen,” or if the term refers to the descendants of these bnei elokim.


Explanation 3: Fallen Humans

Finally, there others who take a different approach and explain benei elokim to mean people who were—at least to begin with—on a spiritually high level. They are later called nephilim, for they or their descendants (or both) fell from their spiritual heights, became corrupted, and eventually brought G‑d’s wrath upon themselves by robbing, murdering and raping without hesitation.

We end up with several reasons why these beings are called nephilim:

1. Because they fell from their greatness.

2. Because they caused the world to fall.

3. Because they caused the hearts of people to fall, trembling before their great stature.

4. Because they fell from heaven—although not without their consent.

5. Nephilim is Hebrew for “giants”—which they were, either in stature, in authority or in spiritual greatness.

Angels Versus Souls

We meet the nephilim again, much later, when Moses sends spies to the land of Canaan. The spies were great men, but they returned with a report that struck terror into the hearts of the Israelites, appending their own opinion that the mission of occupying this land would be futile.

Quite tellingly, they made sure to report on these angels who had fallen from heaven—perhaps because they themselves feared meeting the same fate. After all, the wilderness of Sinai was pretty much a heaven for them, with little else to do than contemplate G‑d’s Torah and His wonders. Entering the land of Canaan to conquer, work the land and harvest its produce threatened to be a tremendous descent.

The difference, however, is that the human soul is not an angel. The human soul is called a neshamah, meaning a breath, as in the verse that tells of how, when G‑d created Adam, “He blew into his nostrils the breath of life.”

An angel falls below and is disconnected. A breath, however, can never be disconnected. No matter where it may end up, how low it may have stooped, the neshamah is intrinsically bound to its origin above, and from there it receives the power to shine, even in the darkest and lowest time and place, and return to its true essence.

https://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_ ... or-Men.htm


What do you think? A bit different to the bible's version of things

Re: A Forensic Expert Says It’s A Different Species

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:31 pm
by sensesonfire
Muser wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:23 pm
An interesting article by noted scholar and researcher Yehuda Shurpin

Nephilim: Fallen Angels, Giants or Men?

Just before the story of Noah’s ark, the Torah presents a cryptic narrative that has mystified and intrigued scholars for generations:

And it came to pass when man commenced to multiply upon the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, that the benei elokim saw the daughters of man when they were beautifying themselves, and they took for themselves wives from whomever they chose. And the L‑rd said, “Let My spirit not quarrel forever concerning man, because he is also flesh, and his days shall be a hundred and twenty years." The nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the benei elokim would come to the daughters of man, and they would bear for them; they are the mighty men, who were of old, the men of renown. (Genesis 6:1–4)

Who or what exactly are the benei elokim? Who are the nephilim? How are they related to each other? And what does it all mean?

One thing benei elokim does not mean is “sons of G‑d.” In fact, Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai would “curse” anyone who translated the term benei elokim as the “sons of G‑d.” The word elokim in Scripture, while generally referring to G‑d, is in essence merely an expression of authority. Similarly, the term benei does not necessarily mean “sons,” but is often just a title. Benei chorin, for example, means those who are free—not “sons of freedom.”

Nephilim seems to be derived from the verb-root naphal, meaning “fall.” From where did they fall? Are they the same as the benei elokim? And if so, why are they called by two names?

The Midrash and commentaries offer three explanations:


Explanation 1: Angels taking a risk


The Midrash relates that when the generation of the Flood went astray, G‑d began to regret having created man. Then two angels, Shamchazai and Azael, came before G‑d and said, “Did we not warn You before You created man, saying, ‘What is man, that You should be mindful of him?" G‑d replied: “Then what shall become of the world?” “We will suffice instead,” they replied. G‑d answered, “I know that would you live on that world, the evil inclination would rule you just as much as it controls man, but you would be even worse.” But the angels persisted, saying: “Let us descend to the world of men, and we will show You how we will sanctify your name.” And G‑d said: “Go down and dwell among them.”

Sure enough, as soon as the angels descended, their evil inclination overpowered them. When they saw the beautiful “daughters of man,” they became corrupted and sinned with them. They and their descendants are the nephilim, the giants and mighty ones referred to later on in the narrative.

This story is often seen as support for the notion of “fallen angels.” But a careful reading reveals that this is not the case. G‑d sent them down knowing full well—and indeed expecting—that they would end up sinning.

In fact, in Judaism there is no such thing as fallen angels or conflict in heaven. There is only one Creator in charge of it all, with no forces opposing Him. Even “Satan” is merely the name of an angel whose divinely assigned task is to tempt people to sin.

While the Midrash’s description of the benei elokim and the nephilim as angels and giants is perhaps the most popular reading, it is not necessarily the most literal one.


Explanation 2: Corrupt Authorities

Based on a more literal translation of benei elokim, many explain that the term is simply referring to princes, noblemen or judges who abused their power, raping anyone they fancied, and forcing any women who got married to have relations with them first. This, together with their many other sins, were what eventually led to the great flood.

There are, however, differences of opinion as to whether the nephilim are simply the benei elokim after they had “fallen,” or if the term refers to the descendants of these bnei elokim.


Explanation 3: Fallen Humans

Finally, there others who take a different approach and explain benei elokim to mean people who were—at least to begin with—on a spiritually high level. They are later called nephilim, for they or their descendants (or both) fell from their spiritual heights, became corrupted, and eventually brought G‑d’s wrath upon themselves by robbing, murdering and raping without hesitation.

We end up with several reasons why these beings are called nephilim:

1. Because they fell from their greatness.

2. Because they caused the world to fall.

3. Because they caused the hearts of people to fall, trembling before their great stature.

4. Because they fell from heaven—although not without their consent.

5. Nephilim is Hebrew for “giants”—which they were, either in stature, in authority or in spiritual greatness.

Angels Versus Souls

We meet the nephilim again, much later, when Moses sends spies to the land of Canaan. The spies were great men, but they returned with a report that struck terror into the hearts of the Israelites, appending their own opinion that the mission of occupying this land would be futile.

Quite tellingly, they made sure to report on these angels who had fallen from heaven—perhaps because they themselves feared meeting the same fate. After all, the wilderness of Sinai was pretty much a heaven for them, with little else to do than contemplate G‑d’s Torah and His wonders. Entering the land of Canaan to conquer, work the land and harvest its produce threatened to be a tremendous descent.

The difference, however, is that the human soul is not an angel. The human soul is called a neshamah, meaning a breath, as in the verse that tells of how, when G‑d created Adam, “He blew into his nostrils the breath of life.”

An angel falls below and is disconnected. A breath, however, can never be disconnected. No matter where it may end up, how low it may have stooped, the neshamah is intrinsically bound to its origin above, and from there it receives the power to shine, even in the darkest and lowest time and place, and return to its true essence.

https://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_ ... or-Men.htm


What do you think? A bit different to the bible's version of things

Hi Muser, You have done your research well.


Explanation 2: Corrupt Authorities

Based on a more literal translation of benei elokim, many explain that the term is simply referring to princes, noblemen or judges who abused their power, raping anyone they fancied, and forcing any women who got married to have relations with them first. This, together with their many other sins, were what eventually led to the great flood.

There are, however, differences of opinion as to whether the nephilim are simply the benei elokim after they had “fallen,” or if the term refers to the descendants of these bnei elokim.


Explanation 3: Fallen Humans

Finally, there others who take a different approach and explain benei elokim to mean people who were—at least to begin with—on a spiritually high level. They are later called nephilim, for they or their descendants (or both) fell from their spiritual heights, became corrupted, and eventually brought G‑d’s wrath upon themselves by robbing, murdering and raping without hesitation.

We end up with several reasons why these beings are called nephilim:
1. Because they fell from their greatness.

2. Because they caused the world to fall.

3. Because they caused the hearts of people to fall, trembling before their great stature.

4. Because they fell from heaven—although not without their consent.

5. Nephilim is Hebrew for “giants”—which they were, either in stature, in authority or in spiritual greatness.


Answer: There is one connection to all of the above and that is the creators of these beings they being the fallen angels so all of the above is applicable but they were referred to Nephilim as offspring of these angels.

You quote this story is often seen as support for the notion of “fallen angels.” But a careful reading reveals that this is not the case. G‑d sent them down knowing full well—and indeed expecting—that they would end up sinning.

I disagree here while God being omniscient did know what was going to happen he forbid them from descending to Earth but of course they defied God. Just like humans, the angels did have free will. But these angels paid dearly for their defiance and evil corruption by being chained and locked away. "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

Who Are The Fallen Angels?

ANSWER:


Fallen angels are followers of Satan. However, they didn't begin as his followers. They were God's created spiritual beings who were meant to serve Him and act as messengers to His people. As with humans, fallen angels were given free will. Their choice led them to their fall from heaven and God's grace.

So everything you have said is correct but this is more a directive of the fallen angels through their offspring the Nephilim.