Let's have a conversation about dodgey research...

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BushcraftAndCampingA
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Let's have a conversation about dodgey research...

Unread post by BushcraftAndCampingA » Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:12 pm

hey gang,

So i wasnt going to post this in here and i didnt want to come across too spammy, but this is the perfect place for the discussion. I recently posted a video on my YouTube channel, encouraged by my building frustration at dodgey freakin research which makes us all look like fools. You know, the blobsquatch zoomed-in bullcrap that just plagues our research community.

Its a special form of self-delusion which is damaging to this very real pursuit anmd insulting to the scared beings we wish to understand more. But moreover, it exposes an unstable mental environment which quite frankly concerns me for the health of those involved. There's nothing wrong with throwing a blurry pic or two out and aksing for feedback - of course - but this unending stream of rubbish parading around as legit yowie research is fristrating to say the least.

Am i alone in this perspecitve? What do others think about it all? A necessary evil or just a conplete waste of everyone's time?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zqBZaJk-W0

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Re: Let's have a conversation about dodgey research...

Unread post by Greg W C Sims » Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:35 am

Hi Craig

First of all I want to say that I really enjoy both your channels on Youtube,very entertaining indeed,keep up the good work mate!

Yes I agree with you,It can be very frustrating if you let it get to you.

I use to enjoy Mark from Colorado Bigfoot when he first came onto the seen with his giant tree structures he was finding,I had never seen these structures before.
Now all he seems to do is zoom in from afar and make something out of nothing,shadows,rocks,bushes and trees are all Bigfoot and It`s "blatant" and obvious in his opinion.He really talks himself up and you are an "Idiot" if you don`t believe him.

So I stopped watching these types of researches,which there are a lot of unfortunately and the stress levels came down.

My two favorite researches of all time,while unfortunately are not current anymore are David Whaite from Bigfoot research(passed away)and Therusty222.
I have learnt a lot from these two researches,thankfully their videos are still accessible.

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Re: Let's have a conversation about dodgey research...

Unread post by Greg W C Sims » Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:58 am

(oops) Sorry It`s Mitch Waite from Bigfoot research.

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Muser
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Re: Let's have a conversation about dodgey research...

Unread post by Muser » Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:10 am

That's a tricky one.

It's annoying when someone produces what they describe as evidence...but many can see it is not what they believe it to be. It's worse when they then try to beat their "evidence" into you ad nauseum. This usually ends with a standoff that reminds me of the song by, They Might Be Giants - Whistling In The Dark. LOL!!

Please note ; They Might Be Giants are a great band. (IMO) Nothing to do with the Nephilim. Haha! That was a joke...just a joke...I'm sorry!

On the flip side...people that produce "evidence" that appears to be nothing but blurry blobs and tree stumps might require the most investigation. (Return to the scene and look for the stump, size comparisons, foot prints, hair samples...you know the drill)

Yowies, as far as I can tell, rarely stop for a full length, front on picture. To get one to strike a couple of Mr Universe poses, complete with strained smile and direct eye contact would be great...but hard to obtain.

Then there are the straight up hoaxers. They usually get the best "evidence" because they stage it. They are probably the biggest hindrance to genuine research, but not far in front of those that seem to be sincere, honest researchers...but a little too enthusiastic about posting videos that don't contain much.

At the end of the day...it's a rich tapestry of non conclusive evidence, genuine (if sometimes over enthusiastic) researchers and hoaxers that make up the rich tapestry of yowie research.

I wouldn't get too upset with things. Although frustrating...all you can do is voice your opinion as to why you can't accept someone's "evidence" and leave it at that. Otherwise...you might develop your own mental health issues. They'll drive you mad!!

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Re: Let's have a conversation about dodgey research...

Unread post by BushcraftAndCampingA » Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:52 pm

Greg W C Sims wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:35 am
Hi Craig

First of all I want to say that I really enjoy both your channels on Youtube,very entertaining indeed,keep up the good work mate!

Yes I agree with you,It can be very frustrating if you let it get to you.

I use to enjoy Mark from Colorado Bigfoot when he first came onto the seen with his giant tree structures he was finding,I had never seen these structures before.
Now all he seems to do is zoom in from afar and make something out of nothing,shadows,rocks,bushes and trees are all Bigfoot and It`s "blatant" and obvious in his opinion.He really talks himself up and you are an "Idiot" if you don`t believe him.

So I stopped watching these types of researches,which there are a lot of unfortunately and the stress levels came down.

My two favorite researches of all time,while unfortunately are not current anymore are David Whaite from Bigfoot research(passed away)and Therusty222.
I have learnt a lot from these two researches,thankfully their videos are still accessible.
oh man Marc from Colorado Bigfoot is one of the worst at it. Absolutely the structures he found are mind blowing, cant take that from him. BUt the poor guy has entered a very dangerous mindset where everything he sees is a bigfoot, and honestly, hes the one I worry bout. The way he just sees them everywhere is very concerning for his mental health. Ive been tempted to reach out to him numerous time to make sure hes ok but ive resisted each time. I honestly don't think he is intentional, he really believes what hes saying in my opinion.

As for Rusty222, yeh without doubt that guy does not get the credit he deserves. He went to such extremes of research and then burnt himself out - such a shame as he was one of the best out there. hes the kind of researcher you really wish got THE Yowie shot. though the calls he recorded are the closest to the ones I get too - which makes sense seeings as how geographically we are very close.

and yeh, I think the key is to stop watching them, but that doesn't help heal the field so-to-speak... if the rubbish is out there, we still get dragged through the mud coz of it

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Re: Let's have a conversation about dodgey research...

Unread post by BushcraftAndCampingA » Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:55 pm

Muser wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:10 am
That's a tricky one.

It's annoying when someone produces what they describe as evidence...but many can see it is not what they believe it to be. It's worse when they then try to beat their "evidence" into you ad nauseum. This usually ends with a standoff that reminds me of the song by, They Might Be Giants - Whistling In The Dark. LOL!!

Please note ; They Might Be Giants are a great band. (IMO) Nothing to do with the Nephilim. Haha! That was a joke...just a joke...I'm sorry!

On the flip side...people that produce "evidence" that appears to be nothing but blurry blobs and tree stumps might require the most investigation. (Return to the scene and look for the stump, size comparisons, foot prints, hair samples...you know the drill)

Yowies, as far as I can tell, rarely stop for a full length, front on picture. To get one to strike a couple of Mr Universe poses, complete with strained smile and direct eye contact would be great...but hard to obtain.

Then there are the straight up hoaxers. They usually get the best "evidence" because they stage it. They are probably the biggest hindrance to genuine research, but not far in front of those that seem to be sincere, honest researchers...but a little too enthusiastic about posting videos that don't contain much.

At the end of the day...it's a rich tapestry of non conclusive evidence, genuine (if sometimes over enthusiastic) researchers and hoaxers that make up the rich tapestry of yowie research.

I wouldn't get too upset with things. Although frustrating...all you can do is voice your opinion as to why you can't accept someone's "evidence" and leave it at that. Otherwise...you might develop your own mental health issues. They'll drive you mad!!
hah this is true mate! cant drive myself nuts watching others drive everyone nuts haha. you make a valid point too - that even blobsquatches are important at times if they are followed up on correctly. AND if they are not claimed to be anything special until a follow up has concluded something otherwise.

the thing that confuses me, is why certain clearly hoaxed videos make the news randomly but other non-hoaxed and equally valuable videos get ignored... very weird. and inconsistent. hopefully one day, one of us legit researchers get some real evidence and blow all the rubbish out of the water!

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Re: Let's have a conversation about dodgey research...

Unread post by Tuckeroo » Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:10 pm

Hi BAC, I can understand your frustration at what you describe in your post. It all in the end is just product
trying to be sold by dodgy characters. I wouldn’t waste time dwelling on it too much.
It’s always going to be there, your mission is to be not like them.

I’ve never understood peoples obsession with trying to prove the existence of the Yowie to the general public or msm.
Who cares, it’s like the subject that dare not speak its name. We all know something is going on out there
so lets just discuss it amongst the cryptid community instead of this obsession to prove it exists to the non believers,
even if they are our close friends.

You statement ‘field of research has looked ridiculous for decades’ I agree with but may not apply so much if you separate
the areas of research. You are lumping big foot/squatch research together with Aussie Yowie research.
You may do well to consciously separate the two. I see a clear distinction.

I would stick to your original intentions and not become too obsessed by the Yowie during your excursions
into the Aussie bush otherwise you could reach a dead-end in your presentations.
It's this dead-end that causes people to start pretending.
If your in the bush the Yowie phenomenon will always be there so there’s always a chance for evidence.

I see your potential as a modern day Les Hiddons, taking your audience to places they could not get to themselves;
learn about the species of trees you're standing amongst, the types of animals and bird song;
tell us where North is, weather etc. Avoid the shitty loud music and sound effects, embrace the stillness.

You talk well to the camera although the rocking back and forth while your doing it was making me sea-sick.
Your dispute at the moment paints you as someone with integrity, lets hope it stays that way.

T.

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Re: Let's have a conversation about dodgey research...

Unread post by yowiedan » Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:28 am

Hey all, firstly, I think everyone has the right to believe in anything that they think is real. I've been on this Forum for along time and have seen so many bullshit artists it's not funny. Many have posted blurry or Pixelated pictures or film the bush with a steady hand. Then, when the so called Bigfoot or Yowie appears there steady hand seems to fail and the filming is so bad it's hard to see what is really there, "Man in baggy ape suit". One even when to extreme length on to use a program called Paint.net where you can change the background or parts of the picture. When asked about this and other irregularities FAILED to answer the questions. He then has gone on to try to make me look bad to his followers. I do enjoy his rant videos about me on you Tube. It's doesn't take a lot of common sense to realise what could be tangible evidence compared to trash that is not worth wasting anytime on, IE: zooming in on an already blurry picture of a tree stump. For people who go out and take 100 pictures then go home and pick out every dark shadow they see and say it's a Yowie or black panther etc your wasting people's time. So to put it bluntly, you will get your honest researchers and then the ones who want their 5 minutes of fame and get off on people commenting on their posts or you tube videos. So mate you have to deal with all the c**p and separate it from the REAL honest research out there. If you can't do that you will go crazy and burn out real quick.

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Re: Let's have a conversation about dodgey research...

Unread post by bassplyr » Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:27 am

Good thread topic Bushcraft,

Its a tangled tapestry for sure regarding the various players on this subject.

On one hand i think you do have sincere people who honestly think they see something for whatever reason in their photos, post them only to find they are pareidoilia. They're not the bad guys, just mistaken.

On the other hand you have a second category. People who did initially have a good picture of something whether it be a semi inconclusive photo of a yowie or tree structure. They were for real and sincere. But that brief spark of interest gave them attention. The attention might have been a feeling they were lacking or wanting in life before and didnt even realise it. They then go out once their fifteen minutes of fame has worn off and desperately try to keep their sensation going and the post more and more insubstantial work until it degrades into downright dishonesty or even hoaxing. With these types of individuals they've fallen prey to a common human fallibility. Its not excusable though once they cross the line into intellectual dishonesty. I think a majority of very visible researchers unfortunately fall into this category.

Then there are those that are opportunists who see a industry ripe for exploitation. They are outright frauds. I'm always weary of any researcher out there that begins claiming dozen or for some individuals hundreds of sasquatch or yowie personal sightings. Its as if they know these creatures so well that every time they go out into the bush theyre calling in them bigfoots and see them every tiime.

To me i think the best and most legit researchers are those who gained an interest in the phenomena from maybe a personal sighting which then lead them into the research community but have not sought further fame from their sightings. It was what it was. The story doesnt get more grandiose over time. and now theyre on to solid research and gaining as much accumulated knowledge they can on the phenomena by compiling other witness accounts for common data or interesting insights. The owner of AYH fits into this category. He doesnt exaggerate. He doesnt hoax. His research is straight forward and honest. He collects data from other witnesses looking for insight. Doesnt proclaim to be an all knowing yowie guru. He's legit and not intellectually dishonest with his viewpoints.

Another sincere but troubled type of researcher who isnt a fraud or hoaxing but may be misleading themselves are those who only see the phenomena from one perspective or belief. In their efforts to prove sasquatch or yowie they cherry pick data or constantly cast an experience in accord with their personal dogma. They are adamant yowie must be this and they are not open to the entire data set and have blinders on. They see what they want to see and they try to refocus the phenomena exclusively through their personal lense. Most of these people are not bad people either. They just have fallen victim to another common human fallibility. However, whether they are aware of it or not , usually not, they are being intellectually dishonest, at least with themselves by omitting, disregarding or refusing to at least explore alternative viewpoints in their quest for the truth. To them they already "know" the truth and are dead set to prove the world as they see it.


Personally i think most good genuine researchers who study this phenomena can easily sort the wheat from the chaff regarding other researchers and disregard the showman antics of others in the field. They call a spade a spade. They keep it simple but open. They follow the data and keep an open mind so their personal beliefs dont cloud or shade their judgement.

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Re: Let's have a conversation about dodgey research...

Unread post by yowiedan » Wed Apr 08, 2020 9:35 am

I have received many pictures over the years and been asked what's your honest opinion of my picture. I have then taken the time to study the pictures and 99% of the time I've come to the conclusion that it's either a burnt tree stump or Pareidolia. Sometimes it's the combination of sunlight and shadows combining. So when I've emailed back what my thoughts are, the people who have sent me them for my honest opinion get their nickers in a knot. So I don't give any opinions on pictures sent to me, because if you don't say it's a Yowie they get all narky. That is one MAJOR problem in this field. Everybody has their own thoughts of what this creature may be but just because what YOU! think it is or isn't shouldn't result in fights and people posting unpleasant comments about you. Another problem is people who are Admins of Facebook groups. Being an Admin doesn't give you the right to slander or Ridiculing others, especially when they are not in your group. I've found some are jealous and making extremely bad comments about some Researchers who have been on Documentaries or on a Shows about Cryptids. These people should pull their heads in and keep quiet. We are lucky that we in OZ are finally getting some shows made out here. Keep safe from Covid-19 and get back out there in the field once this is over.

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Re: Let's have a conversation about dodgey research...

Unread post by Bluedog » Wed Apr 08, 2020 10:04 am

Dodgy research, well that's all a matter of opinion.
What is perceived by some as dodgy is considered relevant to others.
It doesn't take very long to form an opinion of a particular channel on YouTube or a poster on a forum or a Facebook page. Be it positive or negative.
For sure I have YouTube channels I have checked out and quickly disregarded as dodgy, so I don't watch them after that, but hey they aren't really hurting anybody but themselves. At least you get a good laugh out of some of them!
Live and let live.
The more I learn, the less I know.

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Re: Let's have a conversation about dodgey research...

Unread post by BushcraftAndCampingA » Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:38 pm

bassplyr wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:27 am
Good thread topic Bushcraft,

Its a tangled tapestry for sure regarding the various players on this subject.

On one hand i think you do have sincere people who honestly think they see something for whatever reason in their photos, post them only to find they are pareidoilia. They're not the bad guys, just mistaken.

On the other hand you have a second category. People who did initially have a good picture of something whether it be a semi inconclusive photo of a yowie or tree structure. They were for real and sincere. But that brief spark of interest gave them attention. The attention might have been a feeling they were lacking or wanting in life before and didnt even realise it. They then go out once their fifteen minutes of fame has worn off and desperately try to keep their sensation going and the post more and more insubstantial work until it degrades into downright dishonesty or even hoaxing. With these types of individuals they've fallen prey to a common human fallibility. Its not excusable though once they cross the line into intellectual dishonesty. I think a majority of very visible researchers unfortunately fall into this category.

Then there are those that are opportunists who see a industry ripe for exploitation. They are outright frauds. I'm always weary of any researcher out there that begins claiming dozen or for some individuals hundreds of sasquatch or yowie personal sightings. Its as if they know these creatures so well that every time they go out into the bush theyre calling in them bigfoots and see them every tiime.

To me i think the best and most legit researchers are those who gained an interest in the phenomena from maybe a personal sighting which then lead them into the research community but have not sought further fame from their sightings. It was what it was. The story doesnt get more grandiose over time. and now theyre on to solid research and gaining as much accumulated knowledge they can on the phenomena by compiling other witness accounts for common data or interesting insights. The owner of AYH fits into this category. He doesnt exaggerate. He doesnt hoax. His research is straight forward and honest. He collects data from other witnesses looking for insight. Doesnt proclaim to be an all knowing yowie guru. He's legit and not intellectually dishonest with his viewpoints.

Another sincere but troubled type of researcher who isnt a fraud or hoaxing but may be misleading themselves are those who only see the phenomena from one perspective or belief. In their efforts to prove sasquatch or yowie they cherry pick data or constantly cast an experience in accord with their personal dogma. They are adamant yowie must be this and they are not open to the entire data set and have blinders on. They see what they want to see and they try to refocus the phenomena exclusively through their personal lense. Most of these people are not bad people either. They just have fallen victim to another common human fallibility. However, whether they are aware of it or not , usually not, they are being intellectually dishonest, at least with themselves by omitting, disregarding or refusing to at least explore alternative viewpoints in their quest for the truth. To them they already "know" the truth and are dead set to prove the world as they see it.


Personally i think most good genuine researchers who study this phenomena can easily sort the wheat from the chaff regarding other researchers and disregard the showman antics of others in the field. They call a spade a spade. They keep it simple but open. They follow the data and keep an open mind so their personal beliefs dont cloud or shade their judgement.
There is literally nothing i can add to this - you nailed it man. Completely. Human fallibility is ahuge part of this problem, which goes into why i feel bad for those that fall into the trap of seeing things that arent there. It shines a light on what is lacking from their lives and is genuinely sad to me.

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Re: Let's have a conversation about dodgey research...

Unread post by BushcraftAndCampingA » Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:39 pm

yowiedan wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 9:35 am
I have received many pictures over the years and been asked what's your honest opinion of my picture. I have then taken the time to study the pictures and 99% of the time I've come to the conclusion that it's either a burnt tree stump or Pareidolia. Sometimes it's the combination of sunlight and shadows combining. So when I've emailed back what my thoughts are, the people who have sent me them for my honest opinion get their nickers in a knot. So I don't give any opinions on pictures sent to me, because if you don't say it's a Yowie they get all narky. That is one MAJOR problem in this field. Everybody has their own thoughts of what this creature may be but just because what YOU! think it is or isn't shouldn't result in fights and people posting unpleasant comments about you. Another problem is people who are Admins of Facebook groups. Being an Admin doesn't give you the right to slander or Ridiculing others, especially when they are not in your group. I've found some are jealous and making extremely bad comments about some Researchers who have been on Documentaries or on a Shows about Cryptids. These people should pull their heads in and keep quiet. We are lucky that we in OZ are finally getting some shows made out here. Keep safe from Covid-19 and get back out there in the field once this is over.
hahah yes ive had this happen to me too! but i refuse to play into the dellusion. I am ALWAYS exceptionally respectful though and usualy put in the disclaimer "in my opinion, but what do i know..." type deal lol

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Re: Let's have a conversation about dodgey research...

Unread post by BushcraftAndCampingA » Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:42 pm

Tuckeroo wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:10 pm
Hi BAC, I can understand your frustration at what you describe in your post. It all in the end is just product
trying to be sold by dodgy characters. I wouldn’t waste time dwelling on it too much.
It’s always going to be there, your mission is to be not like them.

I’ve never understood peoples obsession with trying to prove the existence of the Yowie to the general public or msm.
Who cares, it’s like the subject that dare not speak its name. We all know something is going on out there
so lets just discuss it amongst the cryptid community instead of this obsession to prove it exists to the non believers,
even if they are our close friends.

You statement ‘field of research has looked ridiculous for decades’ I agree with but may not apply so much if you separate
the areas of research. You are lumping big foot/squatch research together with Aussie Yowie research.
You may do well to consciously separate the two. I see a clear distinction.

I would stick to your original intentions and not become too obsessed by the Yowie during your excursions
into the Aussie bush otherwise you could reach a dead-end in your presentations.
It's this dead-end that causes people to start pretending.
If your in the bush the Yowie phenomenon will always be there so there’s always a chance for evidence.

I see your potential as a modern day Les Hiddons, taking your audience to places they could not get to themselves;
learn about the species of trees you're standing amongst, the types of animals and bird song;
tell us where North is, weather etc. Avoid the shitty loud music and sound effects, embrace the stillness.

You talk well to the camera although the rocking back and forth while your doing it was making me sea-sick.
Your dispute at the moment paints you as someone with integrity, lets hope it stays that way.

T.
thanks for the kind words man.

hahah youre not the only one whose said that video made em seasick lol. i was moving to stop the mozzies getting me. buggers were everywhere! Look i wont lie, the whole Yowie thing is so fascinaitng to me that i created a whole second channel so i could indulge in it! but i know its a long-game and ill be lucky to ever get any real interaction. THis mindset should stave off insanity lol... the thrill of the chase is half the fun anyway!

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Re: Let's have a conversation about dodgey research...

Unread post by Dean Harrison » Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:22 pm

Who is AYH?


DMH
The closure of people's minds, understandings and boundaries are subject to either current environmental pressures brewed by ignorance or insecurities sculptured by pre-environmental education whereby they know no better - Dean Harrison

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Re: Let's have a conversation about dodgey research...

Unread post by Bluedog » Sun Apr 12, 2020 7:29 pm

Dean Harrison wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:22 pm
Who is AYH?


DMH
Australian Yowie Helpline.

A group of individuals dedicated to helping yowies struggling with the reality of being socially isolated .
The more I learn, the less I know.

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Re: Let's have a conversation about dodgey research...

Unread post by bassplyr » Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:10 am

Dean Harrison wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:22 pm
Who is AYH?


DMH
Sorry Dean I meant AYR. I like to call this place AYH because thats the name of the forum. But i should have written AYR. And the owner i was referring to in that post was you.

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Re: Let's have a conversation about dodgey research...

Unread post by AL Pitman » Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:24 am

Chill out Bassplayr
Deans cool man !
I’m sure he’s seen way worse.
Cheers
IF YOU DO NOT LOOK YOU WILL NOT SEE

AL PITMAN

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Re: Let's have a conversation about dodgey research...

Unread post by bassplyr » Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:52 am

Naw he seems pretty laid back. I wasnt worried i had insulted him, just correcting a wrong i did. I like to call the place AYH, but it is AYR. I like to admit when I mess up.

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Re: Let's have a conversation about dodgey research...

Unread post by Dean Harrison » Mon Apr 13, 2020 7:57 am

We all knew what you meant Bassplyr. Thank you for the compliment.

You’re right, Al, I was being tongue in cheek.

We actually began as AHR in the 90’s. It became tiresome trying to explain what a Hominid was during interviews, so we changed it to a Y.



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Re: Let's have a conversation about dodgey research...

Unread post by Muser » Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:18 am

Bluedog wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 7:29 pm
Dean Harrison wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:22 pm
Who is AYH?


DMH
Australian Yowie Helpline.

A group of individuals dedicated to helping yowies struggling with the reality of being socially isolated .
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Re: Let's have a conversation about dodgey research...

Unread post by GECKO » Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:01 am

Hey everyone, for me yowie hunting is more about making memories with my daughter, i use this time to teach her how to look after the bush and treat everything with respect, if you dont look after the bush the YOWIE will get you, a lot of my youtube vids are of what i belive to be yowie activity but i joke around a bit for my daughters sake, funny thing here is that she gets a sence of being unwelcome before i do and she even spotted a big monkey that was dark brown and it wasn't a nice one, she seen this long before i ever told her about the yowie, made me wonder how she knew the nice ones from the bad? What im saying before i go off topic is keep the proper evidence for those that take it seriously and the usless evidence for those that are not so serious and act like its more of a game, to me its very serious because i know what i know, im also silly to keep my daughter interested if it makes sence. Youtube is for all types of people so all my vids go on there, this forum is more serious so ive only ever put my proper evidence on here. Hope im not rambling on to much and what ive said makes sence.
Cheers everyone

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