Same sex Marriage Plebiscite... what's hidden?

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Wolf
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Re: Same sex Marriage Plebiscite... what's hidden?

Unread post by Wolf » Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:54 am

hillbilly wrote:
Scarts wrote:Yeah Wolf, by the sounds of things you really rocked the establishment by challenging your parking ticket.

You are speaking out of your backside, Wolf. Only, I think your adult nappy is overflowing from follow through.

Your fancy use of the word plebiscite like it's a dirty word, is hilarious. Your fear is even more laughable. People vote in politicians and political parties. People have never voted in laws. Politicians decide and make laws.
Well that sort of reply is one which I never thought I would see here. There was no fear in his post- merely pointing out the twisted system that governs us.
It reminds me of the story at Sydney Uni a month or so back, where the Yes voters were taunting and trashing the Christian Food stand.
You should really be ashamed. I think you have done , what the left likes to call "hate speak".
Perhaps the site owners should re-assess the "Gold" status of the poster.
But this is just my opinion, of which we are all entitled, yes?
Yes, it is a shame to see such behaviour here.

I am used to it though... such people never rebut because they cannot. Instead they use slander, mistruths and insults in order to hide thier inadequacies and lack of any valid argument... going so far sa to completely distort the words and intentions of the individual they are attacking using off-base, misdirected falsities like "...you really rocked the establishment..." as if that was the intention of the original poster.

This is a classic 'Strawman Tactic' right out of the SJW playbook... refuse to answer a point with reasoned argument by using verbal manipulation. Next Scarts will start accusing me of things he is actually doing, another classic tactic of today's 'left'.

Are you a politician, Scarts?
If not, perhaps you should be.
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Re: Same sex Marriage Plebiscite... what's hidden?

Unread post by Dion » Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:30 am

Wolf wrote:.....will start accusing me of things he is actually doing, another classic tactic of today's 'left'.
Yes I am starting to notice this more and more myself with the 'Left', along with throw in a lot of miss-truths and lies and fear to set up an agenda which takes away the truth of the matter.

The 'Left' and 'Greens' are slowly taking away basic "God given rights and freedoms" and replacing them with human made up laws that are binding us all up in chains, whether they realise it or not.

The 'Lefty agenda and ideals' are even filtering into the some 'Liberals' and we are currently seeing a huge swing to lefty lunacy.
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Re: Same sex Marriage Plebiscite... what's hidden?

Unread post by Wolf » Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:32 am

Yep, it's all about trying to control the narrative.

It is literally out of 'The Anarchist's Handbook' and other such wondrous (sarc) tomes.

The 'Left' used to have some honour and real ideals... sadly, like EVERY other 'movement' it has been co-opted and twisted into a useful (or should that be 'usefool') tool for stifling debate and sowing division.

Notice how Scarts has avoided answering the question I have asked three times now?
Why? Because he knows to answer it truthfully he will be forced to acknowledge the truth of the matter.

Another good example of this tactic is when recently I was debating gun control in another forum. The vitriol hurled against me was extremely intense when I asked a simple question: "If YOU were in a 'Port Arthur' situation would you prefer to have a gun in your hand or simply hide and wait for the slaughter to stop and hopefully survive?"

Needless to say, not one 'gun control advocate' dared to answer the question.

(2guns) (guns pose)
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Re: Same sex Marriage Plebiscite... what's hidden?

Unread post by Wolf » Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:37 am

Dion wrote:
The 'Left' and 'Greens' are slowly taking away basic "God given rights and freedoms" and replacing them with human made up laws that are binding us all up in chains, whether they realise it or not.

The 'Lefty agenda and ideals' are even filtering into the some 'Liberals' and we are currently seeing a huge swing to lefty lunacy.
"The aim of public education is not to spread enlightenment at all; it is simply to reduce as many individuals as possible to the same safe level, to breed and train a standardized citizenry, to down dissent and originality. That is its aim in the United States, whatever the pretensions of politicians, pedagogues, and other such mountebanks, and that is its aim everywhere else....Their purpose, in brief, is to make docile and patriotic citizens, to pile up majorities, and to make John Doe and Richard Doe as nearly alike, in their everyday reactions and ways of thinking, as possible." -- H. L. Mencken - (1880-1956) American Journalist, Editor, Essayist, Linguist, Lexicographer, and Critic
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Re: Same sex Marriage Plebiscite... what's hidden?

Unread post by TheBlackStump » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:12 am

Hey Wolf , if you did not know , there is actually a written set of guidelines/techniques re how to manipulate a forums opinion/s etc to suite ones own agenda. I have seen this type of control/manipulation used on various forums from time to time.Same methods can also be used in the media by governments or various groups. Below is the link to The Gentleperson's Guide To Forum Spies (spooks, feds, etc.)

https://cryptome.org/2012/07/gent-forum-spies.htm

_____________________________________________________

1. COINTELPRO Techniques for dilution, misdirection and control of a internet forum
2. Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation
3. Eight Traits of the Disinformationalist
4. How to Spot a Spy (Cointelpro Agent)
5. Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

______________________________________________________

Below I have posted just a few extracts from the guide.

4. Use a straw man. Find or create a seeming element of your opponent's argument which you can easily knock down to make yourself look good and the opponent to look bad. Either make up an issue you may safely imply exists based on your interpretation of the opponent/opponent arguments/situation, or select the weakest aspect of the weakest charges. Amplify their significance and destroy them in a way which appears to debunk all the charges, real and fabricated alike, while actually avoiding discussion of the real issues.

5. Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule. This is also known as the primary 'attack the messenger' ploy, though other methods qualify as variants of that approach. Associate opponents with unpopular titles such as 'kooks', 'right-wing', 'liberal', 'left-wing', 'terrorists', 'conspiracy buffs', 'radicals', 'militia', 'racists', 'religious fanatics', 'sexual deviates', and so forth. This makes others shrink from support out of fear of gaining the same label, and you avoid dealing with issues.

6. Hit and Run. In any public forum, make a brief attack of your opponent or the opponent position and then scamper off before an answer can be fielded, or simply ignore any answer. This works extremely well in Internet and letters-to-the-editor environments where a steady stream of new identities can be called upon without having to explain criticism, reasoning -- simply make an accusation or other attack, never discussing issues, and never answering any subsequent response, for that would dignify the opponent's viewpoint.

7. Question motives. Twist or amplify any fact which could be taken to imply that the opponent operates out of a hidden personal agenda or other bias. This avoids discussing issues and forces the accuser on the defensive.

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Re: Same sex Marriage Plebiscite... what's hidden?

Unread post by Dion » Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:09 pm

Hey TheBlackStump

Interesting reading re your above post, however I dont think everyone who has an opinion in certain topics (such as the ones outlined above in your post) are necessarily spook's or spy's, or trolls for that matter.

Some just like a good debate, but I would agree that some if not most would have an agenda behind their postings, not necessarily bad either mind you.

Some people like to fight and stick up for certain rights I guess and while the world keeps spinning there is always going to be a difference of opinion, no matter what the subject.

And when that difference of opinion is different to your own its easy to start insults or label people in certain ways.

Just my take on it.
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Re: Same sex Marriage Plebiscite... what's hidden?

Unread post by TheBlackStump » Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:46 pm

Hi dion

I just thought I would throw that info in as a matter of interest. I wonder who the author was. Maybe a government or government department.

I agree with everything else you have said in your above post. It is best policy for one to remain calm and rational at all times.

Cheers

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Re: Same sex Marriage Plebiscite... what's hidden?

Unread post by Simon M » Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:48 pm

My default opinion is to make sure I'm as well informed as I possibly can be, and to assume that anything any MP ever says is only being said to further their own career.

At this point, all the Federal Government represents to me is a de facto sales team for the big business interests who fund their election campaigns and shout them expensive dinners and luxury accomodation. Even if those business interests happen to be represented by members of the Chinese Communist Party (the ALP and the LNP are both guilty of this).

Beyond that, people are going to have different opinions. I'm not religious but I don't like seeing religious people targeted for verbal attack for the same reasons I don't like seeing any particular group singled out for attack. We're not well served by becoming more insular or more 'patriotic'. I'm concerned about some of the more potentially violent right-wing groups around now (such as the blokes who abused Sam Dastyari the other week and put it on YouTube), but I'm equally concerned about some of the left-wing groups who seem to want the Australian tax payer to foot the bill for every single one of their pet causes, many of which are simply not the responsibility of the Australian people.

Both the (self identified) right and (self identified) left are guilty of being almost completely removed from the average person and from everyday life and reality. I don't think it's even an option to simply 'choose a side' any longer. Eventually, given enough time, Van Badham and Andrew Bolt will both end up spouting the same kind of vitriol towards anyone who disagrees with them. Same goes for Clementine Ford and Peta Credlin who'd probably see themselves as being diametrically opposed. The left and the right look increasingly indistinct from one another. The uniting factor for all of these 'left' or 'right' commentators is their willingness to use personal insults and to cast vague aspersions upon anyone whom they identify as an ideological opponent. If you dare to disagree with either, they'll berate you - ordinary people need to stop letting the extreme elements within each debate dictate the agenda for this country.

We need to try and go down a more reasonable and realistic path. Extremes of any kind are going to make living in such a volatile international situation even more hazardous.

At this point, I don't know which one's more dangerous; Trump or Jong-un. Things that were once certainties are now uncertainties, so we need to start being more rational and more pragmatic. Ideological bickering will get us nowhere and may even do us great harm.

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Re: Same sex Marriage Plebiscite... what's hidden?

Unread post by Dion » Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:44 pm

Simon M wrote:My default opinion is to make sure I'm as well informed as I possibly can be,
You and me both
Simon M wrote:.....to assume that anything any MP ever says is only being said to further their own career.

At this point, all the Federal Government represents to me is a de facto sales team for the big business interests who fund their election campaigns and shout them expensive dinners and luxury accomodation. Even if those business interests happen to be represented by members of the Chinese Communist Party (the ALP and the LNP are both guilty of this).

Beyond that, people are going to have different opinions. I'm not religious but I don't like seeing religious people targeted for verbal attack for the same reasons I don't like seeing any particular group singled out for attack. We're not well served by becoming more insular or more 'patriotic'. I'm concerned about some of the more potentially violent right-wing groups around now (such as the blokes who abused Sam Dastyari the other week and put it on YouTube), but I'm equally concerned about some of the left-wing groups who seem to want the Australian tax payer to foot the bill for every single one of their pet causes, many of which are simply not the responsibility of the Australian people.

Both the (self identified) right and (self identified) left are guilty of being almost completely removed from the average person and from everyday life and reality. I don't think it's even an option to simply 'choose a side' any longer. Eventually, given enough time, Van Badham and Andrew Bolt will both end up spouting the same kind of vitriol towards anyone who disagrees with them. Same goes for Clementine Ford and Peta Credlin who'd probably see themselves as being diametrically opposed. The left and the right look increasingly indistinct from one another. The uniting factor for all of these 'left' or 'right' commentators is their willingness to use personal insults and to cast vague aspersions upon anyone whom they identify as an ideological opponent. If you dare to disagree with either, they'll berate you - ordinary people need to stop letting the extreme elements within each debate dictate the agenda for this country.

We need to try and go down a more reasonable and realistic path. Extremes of any kind are going to make living in such a volatile international situation even more hazardous.

At this point, I don't know which one's more dangerous; Trump or Jong-un. Things that were once certainties are now uncertainties, so we need to start being more rational and more pragmatic. Ideological bickering will get us nowhere and may even do us great harm.
Agree with much you have said, however I have a lot of time to sit and listen to Andrew Bolt, Peta Credlin, Rowan Dean, Ross Cameron, and many Liberal conservatives because simply they have values that have been round for centuries and are not full of hot air like many.

Again I will put this forward to people; People are becoming godless and lawless full stop and are losing their relationship with the almighty, whether they are religious or not, they are more worried about praying for their next piece technology such as AI to come along and save people than they are putty faith in a god.

If you turn your back on a God he will turn his back on you, and we are seeing this more and more in society,

Here is a passage from; 2 Timothy 3 (KJV),

3 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

----------------------------

(Which pretty much sums up the state of many in today's society).
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Re: Same sex Marriage Plebiscite... what's hidden?

Unread post by Scarts » Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:42 pm

Wolf, how about you ask the question you have asked, three times already, one more time.

Please keep it at the top of the post so it's not lost within the paragraph after paragraph of attempted bamboozelment that will surely follow.

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Re: Same sex Marriage Plebiscite... what's hidden?

Unread post by ChrisV » Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:28 pm

All faiths are being tested.
There are so many external influences causing division in a once confident world that people are losing faith and searching for happiness is remote areas that seem devoid of life.

Who knows where this will all end up. Just watching the events of the past 12 months has me worried what our children will inherit. ..if anything at all.

No wonder the Yowies are avoiding us and warning us not to spoil the planet - they get it. They are a lot more smarter that we could ever understand.

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Re: Same sex Marriage Plebiscite... what's hidden?

Unread post by ChrisV » Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:32 pm

Dion wrote:
Simon M wrote:My default opinion is to make sure I'm as well informed as I possibly can be,
You and me both
Simon M wrote:.....to assume that anything any MP ever says is only being said to further their own career.

At this point, all the Federal Government represents to me is a de facto sales team for the big business interests who fund their election campaigns and shout them expensive dinners and luxury accomodation. Even if those business interests happen to be represented by members of the Chinese Communist Party (the ALP and the LNP are both guilty of this).

Beyond that, people are going to have different opinions. I'm not religious but I don't like seeing religious people targeted for verbal attack for the same reasons I don't like seeing any particular group singled out for attack. We're not well served by becoming more insular or more 'patriotic'. I'm concerned about some of the more potentially violent right-wing groups around now (such as the blokes who abused Sam Dastyari the other week and put it on YouTube), but I'm equally concerned about some of the left-wing groups who seem to want the Australian tax payer to foot the bill for every single one of their pet causes, many of which are simply not the responsibility of the Australian people.

Both the (self identified) right and (self identified) left are guilty of being almost completely removed from the average person and from everyday life and reality. I don't think it's even an option to simply 'choose a side' any longer. Eventually, given enough time, Van Badham and Andrew Bolt will both end up spouting the same kind of vitriol towards anyone who disagrees with them. Same goes for Clementine Ford and Peta Credlin who'd probably see themselves as being diametrically opposed. The left and the right look increasingly indistinct from one another. The uniting factor for all of these 'left' or 'right' commentators is their willingness to use personal insults and to cast vague aspersions upon anyone whom they identify as an ideological opponent. If you dare to disagree with either, they'll berate you - ordinary people need to stop letting the extreme elements within each debate dictate the agenda for this country.

We need to try and go down a more reasonable and realistic path. Extremes of any kind are going to make living in such a volatile international situation even more hazardous.

At this point, I don't know which one's more dangerous; Trump or Jong-un. Things that were once certainties are now uncertainties, so we need to start being more rational and more pragmatic. Ideological bickering will get us nowhere and may even do us great harm.
Agree with much you have said, however I have a lot of time to sit and listen to Andrew Bolt, Peta Credlin, Rowan Dean, Ross Cameron, and many Liberal conservatives because simply they have values that have been round for centuries and are not full of hot air like many.

Again I will put this forward to people; People are becoming godless and lawless full stop and are losing their relationship with the almighty, whether they are religious or not, they are more worried about praying for their next piece technology such as AI to come along and save people than they are putty faith in a god.

If you turn your back on a God he will turn his back on you, and we are seeing this more and more in society,

Here is a passage from; 2 Timothy 3 (KJV),

3 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

----------------------------

(Which pretty much sums up the state of many in today's society).

Dion - I don't think its a case if you turn your back on Him he will turn his back on you -
I think its a case of - if you turn your back He will let you learn what its like on the other side then you can work out whats best for you...and in most cases people come home. Thats why life is an experience - its a journey to see what life is about and to make mistakes and lessons along the way to become a better person. And if you don't - well thats your business.

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Re: Same sex Marriage Plebiscite... what's hidden?

Unread post by Dion » Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:37 am

ChrisV wrote: Dion - I don't think its a case if you turn your back on Him he will turn his back on you -
I think its a case of - if you turn your back He will let you learn what its like on the other side then you can work out whats best for you...and in most cases people come home.
Yes well put ChrisV you said it better than I, it was what I was trying to say, I was a bit blunt.
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Re: Same sex Marriage Plebiscite... what's hidden?

Unread post by Wolf » Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:15 am

Scarts wrote:Wolf, how about you ask the question you have asked, three times already, one more time.

Please keep it at the top of the post so it's not lost within the paragraph after paragraph of attempted bamboozelment that will surely follow.
I present evidence of political and legal corruption and you call it intentional bamboozlement... very sad.

Even sadder is that not only do you verbally attack someone trying to open your eyes to the chains that bind you to your esnlavement, you cannot even see said chains. Classic example of Plato's Cave.

How about you just keep your head buried in the sand and ignore anyone who tries to warn you about the tightening of your chains. You are obviously too lazy to simply reread any of my posts that replied to yours. Perhaps your reading comprehension skills require multiple reading of one's posts. That could explain why you misunderstand and then misrepresent my words?
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Re: Same sex Marriage Plebiscite... what's hidden?

Unread post by Scarts » Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:47 am

Wolf, I am lazy. You've asked multiple questions. Are you referring to your question as to whether I think it is fair you have to prove yourself innocent in a court of law as opposed to the prosecution proving you guilty? No, I don't think that's fair. I also question that really happened.

You haven't explained what the alleged parking offence is. Presumably you disobeyed a parking sign. If your eyesight is good enough for you to drive and park a vehicle, what was your explanation for disobeying the parking sign? Was it obscured, removed, incorrectly positioned, written in a foreign language? Was there an emergency reason you disobeyed the sign or what was your excuse?

You only provided half the story and used it to paint a picture our judicial system is unjust and that acts are not laws to be obeyed. Acts are laws to be obeyed. Laws are constantly being updated and revised with previous versions made redundant.

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Re: Same sex Marriage Plebiscite... what's hidden?

Unread post by Wolf » Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:11 am

Scarts wrote:Wolf, I am lazy. You've asked multiple questions. Are you referring to your question as to whether I think it is fair you have to prove yourself innocent in a court of law as opposed to the prosecution proving you guilty? No, I don't think that's fair. I also question that really happened.

You haven't explained what the alleged parking offence is. Presumably you disobeyed a parking sign. If your eyesight is good enough for you to drive and park a vehicle, what was your explanation for disobeying the parking sign? Was it obscured, removed, incorrectly positioned, written in a foreign language? Was there an emergency reason you disobeyed the sign or what was your excuse?

You only provided half the story and used it to paint a picture our judicial system is unjust and that acts are not laws to be obeyed. Acts are laws to be obeyed. Laws are constantly being updated and revised with previous versions made redundant.
The parking offence story was to illustrate the fact the Transport Act has never been proclaimed and as such is NOT a law. The quotes from various high court cases support the fact that unless an act becomes law by proclamation, nobody is obliged to obey it. This illustrates how corrupt the system has become when the politicians do not even follow the rules necessary to enact laws.

As to the judge telling me I was guilty until proven innocent, yes that really did happen. His exact words were: "Under the TORUM Act that is reversed and you are guilty until you prove yourself innocent." (After I asked the court, "is it not up to the claimant to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt?")

So you agree that this concept is 'not fair'? Then follow up with an accusation I am lying about it?

I do not lie mate. If you don't believe me, phone any court or solicitor and ask them.
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Re: Same sex Marriage Plebiscite... what's hidden?

Unread post by TheBlackStump » Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:34 pm

Hey Wolf

I vaguely recall reading in various forums in the past , maybe 5 years ago or more , of other persons claiming to do similar or same as what you have done with your parking fine. They used the same or similar arguements as you have used.

From memory one of those cases was for not having a drivers lisc and the other was for a cannabis cultivation matter. I recall that there were adjourned closed court hearings as the magistrates initially did not know how to handle the arguements put forward in these cases. I do not recall the final outcomes of these cases.

Cheers :)

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Re: Same sex Marriage Plebiscite... what's hidden?

Unread post by ChrisV » Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:21 pm

Dion wrote:
ChrisV wrote: Dion - I don't think its a case if you turn your back on Him he will turn his back on you -
I think its a case of - if you turn your back He will let you learn what its like on the other side then you can work out whats best for you...and in most cases people come home.
Yes well put ChrisV you said it better than I, it was what I was trying to say, I was a bit blunt.

Same thing either way (cool)

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Re: Same sex Marriage Plebiscite... what's hidden?

Unread post by ChrisV » Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:24 pm

How did the conversation go from the Plebiscite to Parking fines?

Anyway - carry on, its interesting conversation.... for the moment anyway (jest)

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Re: Same sex Marriage Plebiscite... what's hidden?

Unread post by Wolf » Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:53 pm

ChrisV wrote:How did the conversation go from the Plebiscite to Parking fines?

Anyway - carry on, its interesting conversation.... for the moment anyway (jest)

The parking fine was an example of a real court case that demonstrated how the government makes and breaks the law to suit itself (in this case, pretending an act is in fact a law when it has never been proclaimed and gazetted as required by Law).
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Re: Same sex Marriage Plebiscite... what's hidden?

Unread post by Scarts » Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:53 am

The argument has gone from plebiscite to parking fines because Wolf claims he was presumed guilty in a court of law for a parking offence and was told he had to prove himself innocent.

My struggle with this story is Wolf constantly refers to comments made by a judge. Judges make judgements in district and supreme courts with juries. Ive never heard of a contested parking fine being decided by a judge and jury. Hence my earlier comments of speaking from ones cake hole.

Magistrates court. Yeah. No worries. I can believe a magistrate dealing with such a petty matter. I don't believe a magistrate would openly tell a defendant he has to prove him or herself innocent. Everyone is presumed innocent until proven guilty. Everything said in a court is recorded. I also don't believe this would have been a closed court, as it doesn't meet the criteria. This means anyone could have attended, including the media.

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Re: Same sex Marriage Plebiscite... what's hidden?

Unread post by TheBlackStump » Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:10 am

Guilty until proven innocent: is it fair to reverse the onus ... - NSW Courts

https://nswcourts.com.au/articles/guilt ... -of-proof/

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Re: Same sex Marriage Plebiscite... what's hidden?

Unread post by TheBlackStump » Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:09 am

TheBlackStump wrote:Guilty until proven innocent: is it fair to reverse the onus ... - NSW Courts

https://nswcourts.com.au/articles/guilt ... -of-proof/
One Comment
Debra EngelJuly 25th, 2015
You left one major government rip off of all time.
Traffic infringements. Greatest money spinner for a private corporation in history.
Guilty even if you weren’t driving.

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Wolf
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Re: Same sex Marriage Plebiscite... what's hidden?

Unread post by Wolf » Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:15 am

Scarts wrote:The argument has gone from plebiscite to parking fines because Wolf claims he was presumed guilty in a court of law for a parking offence and was told he had to prove himself innocent.

My struggle with this story is Wolf constantly refers to comments made by a judge. Judges make judgements in district and supreme courts with juries. Ive never heard of a contested parking fine being decided by a judge and jury. Hence my earlier comments of speaking from ones cake hole.

Magistrates court. Yeah. No worries. I can believe a magistrate dealing with such a petty matter. I don't believe a magistrate would openly tell a defendant he has to prove him or herself innocent. Everyone is presumed innocent until proven guilty. Everything said in a court is recorded. I also don't believe this would have been a closed court, as it doesn't meet the criteria. This means anyone could have attended, including the media.
There you go again, declaring I am stating things that I do not state. You really need to better your reading comprehension skills... perhaps read something more than once?

I have never said anything about juries, nor about appearing in district or supreme courts.

And not once did I claim I was ever in any closed courts.
I WAS directed to out-of-the-way, top-floor courts where no other people were (a friend who fights these illegal laws told me my mistake was to go to court without mates present to sit in the gallery and witness proceedings)

On one occasion when I tried to present my defence verbally the judge told me he was refusing to hear the matter any further and adjourned it to a Wednesday for 'Judge So-and-so' to deal with. When I protested the day and asked for any other (wednesdays were not good for me because I had to be at a school by 2:30 every Wednesday) he refused, saying wednesdays were the only days this particular judge came down from Brisbane.

The whole reason I was in court 20 times in a two year period was because I had 'discovered' the so-called 'Freeman movement' and when I got a speeding fine decided to test the movement's claims. I won the matter and in doing so found out some very interesting things about the 'legal system'. But none of it was decisive. Luckily I then got three more speeding fines, and a parking fine over the next several months (there was a major blitz over this period with new mobile speed cameras and my job means I am on the road almost every single day doing literally hundreds of kilometres a day).

This gave me an excellent opportunity to discover the truth using the courts to 'prove' things others (Freemen-on-the-land, sovereign citizens, etc) were claiming, and test things I was discovering in my legal research.

In all for perhaps 18 months or more I devoted EVERY spare minute to research, wading through acts and legislation, trudging through case file after case file, and digging deep into recent political history. Needless to say my very understanding wife got very sick of it all... I lived in front of my computer.

The three matters I have won demonstrated there ARE magistrates out there with some honour and at least some respect for the law... even if they refuse to expose the system, they will 'find a way', a technical loophole or something to avoid the REAL reason they are dismissing the matter.

The three I have lost demonstrate there are an equal number of corrupt judges who will not back away from using intimidation, obfuscication and even outfight lies to shut up those who threaten the system.

Scarts, I hope you get the chance to test your naïveté in court. Today's courts are nothing more than shearing sheds designed to fleece the population nad put money into the government coffers.
The proliferation of speeding cameras is only part of that, bringing in literally hundreds of million$ every year in EACH state!

Spend a day in any court (I have spent many) and you will see how crowded they are with over 90% of matters being dealt with are 'traffic offences', mostly speeding.

As to what the particular judge said about me having to prove my innocence because I was presumed guilty, that was only part of it. The b@stard ALSO demanded I prove a negative! Both statements are in total breach of the very principles of our legal system!
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Re: Same sex Marriage Plebiscite... what's hidden?

Unread post by Wolf » Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:31 am

During all of my studies I posted regular updates, theories, appearances, paperwork, court submissions, etc on this site: http://www.southernfreemen.com/forum/to ... ar-friends
(you will have to become a member to read it though)
This thread alone has 157 pages of content (a fair bit of it taken up arguing with other 'freedom-seekers').

I started it to keep a record of my own evolving education, experiences, paperwork, etc complete with dates and times, that I could refer back to as I needed it.

There is a more succinct post where I had to trim out all the arguing etc so I could follow my own records more easily; http://www.southernfreemen.com/forum/to ... -revenoors
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Re: Same sex Marriage Plebiscite... what's hidden?

Unread post by Wolf » Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:38 am

TheBlackStump wrote:
Traffic infringements. Greatest money spinner for a private corporation in history.
She's got that right (thumb up)

In Qld speed cameras alone bring in more than $200 MILLION a YEAR!

The chaps at http://www.aussiespeedingfines.com/ were an excellent resource for my battles.

Their motto: 'It is Focus and Attention, NOT Fines and Detention, that REALLY save lives on our roads!' has been demonstrated correct by studies showing that enforcing speed limits CAUSE accidents because drivers are taking their eyes off the road to constantly check their speed (a fact one of my police witnesses AGREED with on the stand once... even the cops know cameras do not prevent accidents and if anything cause them).
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Re: Same sex Marriage Plebiscite... what's hidden?

Unread post by Scarts » Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:37 am

Wolf, theres nothing wrong with my reading. You don't seem to know the difference between a judge and a magistrate. I think you were dealt with by magistrates in magistrates courts.

So, were you guilty of these traffic offences? I think you were, but you seem to think you shouldn't have to pay them like everybody else because you're some sort of special genius......

It's a great story, but I don't believe you. I believe its more likely you were fined and ordered to pay court costs for wasting the courts and other people's time.

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Re: Same sex Marriage Plebiscite... what's hidden?

Unread post by Shazzoir » Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:24 pm

A
Wolf wrote: The whole reason I was in court 20 times in a two year period was because I had 'discovered' the so-called 'Freeman movement' and when I got a speeding fine decided to test the movement's claims. I won the matter and in doing so found out some very interesting things about the 'legal system'. But none of it was decisive. Luckily I then got three more speeding fines, and a parking fine over the next several months (there was a major blitz over this period with new mobile speed cameras and my job means I am on the road almost every single day doing literally hundreds of kilometres a day).

B Spend a day in any court (I have spent many) and you will see how crowded they are with over 90% of matters being dealt with are 'traffic offences', mostly speeding.
C has been demonstrated correct by studies showing that enforcing speed limits CAUSE accidents because drivers are taking their eyes off the road to constantly check their speed (a fact one of my police witnesses AGREED with on the stand once... even the cops know cameras do not prevent accidents and if anything cause them).

I'm just going to mention something here, as we have gone so far off topic as to be in a different timezone.

A) If you spend many days on the road, doing literally hundreds of kilometres a day, and yet you cannot keep within posted speed limits, then sorry, do the crime, do the time. This is the simplest requirement of ANY operator of a vehicle, and there are plenty of folks who have no trouble doing so. If you have a car fitted with cruise control, and pretty much all of them do these days, then there's no reason for i) exceeding the speed limit, or are you in a truck, or van, or semi-trailer/B-Double with no such aid?

B) Gee, I wonder why... if people are going to court 20 times or more to fight a speeding fine...

C) OVERCONFIDENT DRIVERS who won't stick to posted limits are a pretty massive risk on the road, and only someone in severe denial would claim otherwise. Not ALL accidents are caused by speed, but excess speed is a factor in a significant number of them. If you are unable to glance down at your speedometer for one second while driving at any speed, without somehow having your right foot press harder on the accelerator at the same time, then you do not have the necessary skills to be a good driver. Sorry, but this hoary old chestnut continues to surface in speeding fine arguments time and time again.

Distraction can come from many sources, but not one of the people I have spoken to about this very topic have said "Yeah, I looked down at my speedo, and went over the speed limit enough to get flashed by a roadside camera/nabbed by a highway patrol car/motorcycle cop. They pretty much admitted to 'just going a bit over the limit' indicating that they knew full well what the posted speed limit was, and CHOSE to go over 'just a bit'. Tempt fate enough, and it will get you. Gambling is a numbers game, and if you habitually speed, and don't get caught 95% of the time, you get a false sense of confidence that you won't get caught, and that the risk is worth taking. But then, 5% of the time, you could get caught speeding, or worse, have an crash. I won't use the word 'accident', as if you are willfully and intentionally driving faster than the speed limits posted (irritating though some of them may be if you're in a hurry or just impatient), and you wipe out, you only have yourself to blame.

I'm in the health and safety business, and if you tried what you have just described on many employers in this great brown land of ours, (that is, break the posted travelling speed limit, and thereby, THE LAW), you'd be out the gate within the hour. Why? Because your safety, and that of others, is why the vast majority of road rules exist.

But it's parking fines, too, by what you've said, so I see a pattern of non-conformism here. Now ordinarily, I would cheer the non-conformist, and I do applaud the vigour and energy you have put into the many threads you have posted here, Wolf, and parking fines are generally not life-threatening or have the ability to cause distress to other road users unless you've parked in a clearway, bike lane, emergency services spot, wheelie space or loading zone. Speeding, however, can be.

I get that you're up for fighting THE MAN on this, but it seems like it's become a bit of an obsession, and that's not healthy. You have chosen to pick your battles on the roads, but I sincerely hope you never lose control, wipe yourself out, or some other innocent road user. This 'ain't Mad Max.

Finally, until recently, I spent four hours per day commuting to work on the roads, from the country highways to inner city Brisbane... 5am to 7am and 3pm to 5pm, Monday to Friday. 240km per day, in fact and in the four years I've been doing that, I have gotten precisely ONE speeding ticket, for going 64 in a 60km/hr zone, down a hill, at Indooroopilly at 7am in the morning. I paid the fine, because I HAD been going faster down the hill, and CHOSE not to brake to slow my speed to the limit posted, because in my mind, I tried to justify it a dozen ways... I was nearly at work, it was early, nobody was around on the road that I could see behind and in front of me, all the BS little excuses your mind gives until you get caught out doing the wrong thing. One speeding ticket in 31 years of driving is pretty damn good going, but you see, that's what happens when you CHOOSE to speed, or not to speed. Everything's a risk, and I choose to not risk my life, and that of other road users in my selfish objective of having to get from A to B.

I would encourage anyone to read one of the many good books out there dealing with Health and Safety Culture, and acknowledge the "Acceptable Culture of Risk" we all hold in our minds, that forms our behaviours and responses to perceptions of risk and danger. It's rather sobering when you realise many people are gambling with their very lives.

Just to finish, it would have been better if you'd started a thread about speeding fines, not hijacked the same sex marriage plebescite debate thread. There's already been enough distraction about that topic, and I see no end to it, unfortunately.

Shazz
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Dr. Carl Sagan

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Re: Same sex Marriage Plebiscite... what's hidden?

Unread post by Wolf » Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:26 pm

Magistrate, judge... I use the terms interchangeably because most people believe them to be one and the same.

I have told my story as an example of the REAL government, as opposed to the one we think we have, that we live under.

What possible reason could I have to make something like this up? You want evidence this all happened? Follow the links above... it is all well documented, written as it progressed over a very long period of time.

It is naive people like you I am trying to wake up. Pull your head out of the sand and look around you... the corruption is endemic.
... Politicians lower the minimum wage while at the same time raise their own wages.
... some 'citizens' get away literally with murder while others go to prison for exercising their rights.
... the very few elite get richer while he middle class rapidly shrinks.
... magistrates/judges ignore the foundational laws of our legal system.
... I could go on and on.

'The only true evil is when good men see evil and do nothing about it.'

I have been lucky... there are a few very good men proving his stuff in court over and over. As an example, one fellow I know has to use false names and addresses because the authorities are sick of him using his knowledge to helps some poor joker save their farm and property from Banksters and beurocraps (sic).

He has literally saved people many millions to date but as a result the system hates him and has thrown him in the lockup overnight countless times to try and scare him off. Every morning when he appears in court he uses his own knowledge to 'get off'.

Another friend was helping people get rid of Bankster debt in court (in case you don't know the credit system, especially credit cards is the biggest con game in history and is completely illegal under common law and biblical law). His endless successes resulted in a heavily accented thug coming to his front door and attacking him, then threatening to kill his children if he continued.

Once again I could go on... there are plenty of successes challenging the corruption but you never hear about them (of course).

You don't want to believe me, that's your choice. You are a classic example of Plato's Cave. But that's okay, you are free to be who you are.
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Re: Same sex Marriage Plebiscite... what's hidden?

Unread post by Wolf » Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:28 pm

Shazzoir wrote:A
Wolf wrote: The whole reason I was in court 20 times in a two year period was because I had 'discovered' the so-called 'Freeman movement' and when I got a speeding fine decided to test the movement's claims. I won the matter and in doing so found out some very interesting things about the 'legal system'. But none of it was decisive. Luckily I then got three more speeding fines, and a parking fine over the next several months (there was a major blitz over this period with new mobile speed cameras and my job means I am on the road almost every single day doing literally hundreds of kilometres a day).

B Spend a day in any court (I have spent many) and you will see how crowded they are with over 90% of matters being dealt with are 'traffic offences', mostly speeding.
C has been demonstrated correct by studies showing that enforcing speed limits CAUSE accidents because drivers are taking their eyes off the road to constantly check their speed (a fact one of my police witnesses AGREED with on the stand once... even the cops know cameras do not prevent accidents and if anything cause them).

I'm just going to mention something here, as we have gone so far off topic as to be in a different timezone.

A) If you spend many days on the road, doing literally hundreds of kilometres a day, and yet you cannot keep within posted speed limits, then sorry, do the crime, do the time. This is the simplest requirement of ANY operator of a vehicle, and there are plenty of folks who have no trouble doing so. If you have a car fitted with cruise control, and pretty much all of them do these days, then there's no reason for i) exceeding the speed limit, or are you in a truck, or van, or semi-trailer/B-Double with no such aid?

B) Gee, I wonder why... if people are going to court 20 times or more to fight a speeding fine...

C) OVERCONFIDENT DRIVERS who won't stick to posted limits are a pretty massive risk on the road, and only someone in severe denial would claim otherwise. Not ALL accidents are caused by speed, but excess speed is a factor in a significant number of them. If you are unable to glance down at your speedometer for one second while driving at any speed, without somehow having your right foot press harder on the accelerator at the same time, then you do not have the necessary skills to be a good driver. Sorry, but this hoary old chestnut continues to surface in speeding fine arguments time and time again.

Distraction can come from many sources, but not one of the people I have spoken to about this very topic have said "Yeah, I looked down at my speedo, and went over the speed limit enough to get flashed by a roadside camera/nabbed by a highway patrol car/motorcycle cop. They pretty much admitted to 'just going a bit over the limit' indicating that they knew full well what the posted speed limit was, and CHOSE to go over 'just a bit'. Tempt fate enough, and it will get you. Gambling is a numbers game, and if you habitually speed, and don't get caught 95% of the time, you get a false sense of confidence that you won't get caught, and that the risk is worth taking. But then, 5% of the time, you could get caught speeding, or worse, have an crash. I won't use the word 'accident', as if you are willfully and intentionally driving faster than the speed limits posted (irritating though some of them may be if you're in a hurry or just impatient), and you wipe out, you only have yourself to blame.

I'm in the health and safety business, and if you tried what you have just described on many employers in this great brown land of ours, (that is, break the posted travelling speed limit, and thereby, THE LAW), you'd be out the gate within the hour. Why? Because your safety, and that of others, is why the vast majority of road rules exist.

But it's parking fines, too, by what you've said, so I see a pattern of non-conformism here. Now ordinarily, I would cheer the non-conformist, and I do applaud the vigour and energy you have put into the many threads you have posted here, Wolf, and parking fines are generally not life-threatening or have the ability to cause distress to other road users unless you've parked in a clearway, bike lane, emergency services spot, wheelie space or loading zone. Speeding, however, can be.

I get that you're up for fighting THE MAN on this, but it seems like it's become a bit of an obsession, and that's not healthy. You have chosen to pick your battles on the roads, but I sincerely hope you never lose control, wipe yourself out, or some other innocent road user. This 'ain't Mad Max.

Finally, until recently, I spent four hours per day commuting to work on the roads, from the country highways to inner city Brisbane... 5am to 7am and 3pm to 5pm, Monday to Friday. 240km per day, in fact and in the four years I've been doing that, I have gotten precisely ONE speeding ticket, for going 64 in a 60km/hr zone, down a hill, at Indooroopilly at 7am in the morning. I paid the fine, because I HAD been going faster down the hill, and CHOSE not to brake to slow my speed to the limit posted, because in my mind, I tried to justify it a dozen ways... I was nearly at work, it was early, nobody was around on the road that I could see behind and in front of me, all the BS little excuses your mind gives until you get caught out doing the wrong thing. One speeding ticket in 31 years of driving is pretty damn good going, but you see, that's what happens when you CHOOSE to speed, or not to speed. Everything's a risk, and I choose to not risk my life, and that of other road users in my selfish objective of having to get from A to B.

I would encourage anyone to read one of the many good books out there dealing with Health and Safety Culture, and acknowledge the "Acceptable Culture of Risk" we all hold in our minds, that forms our behaviours and responses to perceptions of risk and danger. It's rather sobering when you realise many people are gambling with their very lives.

Just to finish, it would have been better if you'd started a thread about speeding fines, not hijacked the same sex marriage plebescite debate thread. There's already been enough distraction about that topic, and I see no end to it, unfortunately.

Shazz
You start by saying the topic has been diverted then go on to divert the topic with irrelevancy?

My discussion of court is to demonstrate how corrupt the system has become, not debate the equity of speeding fines. I could debate you for hours on the issues here, go to the Aussie speeding fines site I linked above if you want to see the arguments against such revenue raising tactics.
The mightiest oak was once a nut that stood his ground https://www.sasquatchstories.com

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