The Yowie

This is a Soap Box section of our Forum where those who hold passionate views/opinions regarding various aspects of Theology, Creation, Religion, Paranormal etc - pertaining to the Yowie can be POLITELY debated, away from our mainstream friendly Yowie / Bigfoot Discussion Board.

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Dean Harrison
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The Yowie

Unread post by Dean Harrison » Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:25 pm

After so much speculation and talk regarding differing aspects of the Yowie including its movements, hertitage, Aboriginal Myth and the massive weight of stories people have relayed over the years......

Lets put it out there.

Who believes the Yowie is F&B (Flesh and Blood), Not sure, or Paranormal?

Don't be scared.....

This is what this board is all about. To speak without fear.

We understand some wish to use an anonymous when such opportunities arise...... and it's now hard on this board, but we're all friends....

What are YOUR opinions? If everyone contributes, this should be fun.

DMH
The closure of people's minds, understandings and boundaries are subject to either current environmental pressures brewed by ignorance or insecurities sculptured by pre-environmental education whereby they know no better - Dean Harrison

Plesiosaurus
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Unread post by Plesiosaurus » Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:26 pm

....dips me toe in the water......

Flesh & blood no probs. Enough good sightings by good people to support the position.

Paranormal; forgive me if Im mistaken but my impression is that a lot of the reports of paranormal activity come from overseas and are referrable to the animal that the natives of northwestern USA call the "big stinky guy"

The closest I've heard to paranormal in Aus is the glowing red eye phenomenon. Unexplained........

8)
All of us are lying in the gutter; but some of us are looking at the stars...Oscar Wilde

brigalow

Unread post by brigalow » Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:31 pm

I`d say more paranormal.
There are some obvious facts that stand out to support
this claim,there are no known fecal,skeletal or hair
remains in Museums or private collections.
From a personal point of view i started out with the
concept that the Yowie was flesh and blood, but after
my own experiences and also interviewing others i have found there are eliments of it being Metaphysical.
Two great elements of this are the Red Eyes and the
Awful Dread. People who have seen and/or experienced this find it very perplexing.

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Unread post by dawn » Wed Jan 12, 2005 1:14 am

Can I be a pain and say both? I wonder if we have real f&b encounters and every now and then something turns up and mimics them. Same sort of phenomena that gives us sea monsters where there just can't possibly be anything that large. Something that has red glowing eyes, and does exactly what we'd expect a f&b creature to do.... but not quite! People from both camps are probably rolling there eyes and saying you can't have it both ways!
I'm not fat.....I'm just fluffy

Al

Unread post by Al » Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:48 am

Definately flesh and blood, however very elusive creatures at that. When you have to start to use equally strange explanations for strange phenomenon then that's when people start to roll their eyes and not take things seriously enough.

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Unread post by Dean Harrison » Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:02 am

All fair comments.

I've always been an F&B person myself, however there are without doubt some strange aspects of the Yowie that simply can't be explained.

I have a number of examples I can draw on from my own experience.

Besides the lack of hard evidence such as hair samples, decent footage or a body - which the same could be said for all manner of Cryptid animals...

1) How and why can people 'sense' a Yowie before seeing it? People report their hair standing on end, goose bumps, cold sweats, paralysation, feelings of vulnerability, feelings of being watched etc? All quite uniform witness statements. :?:

2) When on expedition in the Pilliga, I had one 'yelling' at me from only metres away on sandy ground. Although it was making a fuss and walking all around us, why were there no prints in the sand? While searching for the creatures prints, we left our own, and although we were standing exactly where it was, it didn't leave one single print? :?:

3) During an expedition at Kilkivan at 4am we had one walking at us up a hill. It was almost on a charge, but as it got right on top of us, we turned the lights to reveal - nothing. Not a thing. The very moment the lights went on, it was right next to us. As we hit the button, from all the hoo-har of the massive steps - not a twig snapped and it was gone. It still plays on my mind. We searched the area for a good 20 mins and considering this wasn't think bush land, it was astonishing that such a large creature could vanish into thin air when it was basically right on top of us. Not a twig broke after the lights went on. :?:

4) The one at Ormeau. Just like other witnesses, I was physically frozen, but still hadn't seen it by this stage? Then during the actual chase, it felt like the creature was - hard to explain - .... not only could I hear the anger, but it was as though I could 'feel' it? I guess all this could simply be a result of fear. :?:

5) The big one for me was at "the arena" at Kilkivan while sitting there with Trevor at 11pm. This changed my perspective a little. Not saying Paranormal, but certainly changed my perspective, or should I say, 'confirmed' a few suspicions. (No, I'm not elaborating on this one)....... :!:

It's probably the biggest debated subject regarding these creatures, but interestingly it's quite often the people who have experience with the Yowie that tend to learn towards the Meta/Para point of view.

Keep your points of view coming! :idea:

DMH
The closure of people's minds, understandings and boundaries are subject to either current environmental pressures brewed by ignorance or insecurities sculptured by pre-environmental education whereby they know no better - Dean Harrison

Darren

Unread post by Darren » Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:17 am

I'd have to say , I believe they are F/B ! The footprints , all the damage done , the fact they've been seen carting off small dogs ect . . . the sound of them crashing through the bush , the unknown hair samples that have been found , bush beds , the list goes on ! All of these , and more , push towards F/B ! They're just very good at what they do . . . and I believe they are intelligent enough to know , human = trouble !

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Yowies

Unread post by Tish » Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:03 am

I'm with flesh and blood.
I also agree with Darren on the fact that yowies are intelligent enough to keep themselves safe.
Living on the bush we have numerous birds and animals but apart from road kill I've never found a dead body, a yowie being smarter may take itself somewhere to die.

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Flesh and blood or what?

Unread post by Wally » Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:23 pm

I dunno anything about the big fellows really but the little hairy people of the Gammons have some unusual traits.
Stories told to me in all earnestness indicate that these little fellows can be present playing with children, and in the sight of children, but are invisible to adults.
They certainly eat food, and have tried to get into bed with campers, so they must feel the cold.
Cheers Wally
Wally

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Unread post by Mike Williams » Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:31 pm

I have listed all the points repeatedly why they are implausible to be flesh and blood.
The response was zero.Not a whisper.
Where was everyone to try and refute my points, asleep.??? :D
The fact that they leave traces in the enviroment which
means = flesh and blood is illogical.
There are many paranormal subjects ie poltergeists/ufo cases/alien "abductions" /PK experiments etc etc that leave traces on film/video/the ground/radar etc etc.
Every year that nothing is caught/shot/found/runover/
filmed/videotaped/photographed etc etc is another hole in the "its really good at hiding."
And in 50 years time they will still be waiting for the evidence.And in 100 and so on and so on.
Grover Krantz believed its real, in the US but stated somewhere, that its implausible to be appearing all over the place.
And now its popping up in the UK, undiscovered hominds been living in the forest. :?:
Witnessed by a zoologist with other people, and with glowing eyes.
The reason many people dont understand the paranormal/crypto is the following.
1/they have a limited knowledge of the subject.
2/They have read very little outside of the crypto field.
Or for that matter on mysterious cryptids.
3/They ignore all reports with a paranormal aspect.
4/They ignore any posts made on this subject.
5/They realise if its paranormal then they have very little hope of solving the mystery/catching one/filming one.
Bad luck. :twisted:
I gave a list in my previous unread post about all the authors OVERSEAS and here that mention this aspect of the hairy men phenomena.
Another unread post from me Dean. :D


Mike

l

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Ruby Lang
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The Yowie

Unread post by Ruby Lang » Thu Jan 13, 2005 7:58 pm

Hi Guys,

Well, I have believed for some time that there is a paranormal aspect to the yowie mystery.

The native custodians of this land, the Aborigines, have referred to them as spirit beings as well as flesh and blood...and then there are those 'backward pointing feet'. Hardly the physical attribute of a flesh and blood creature - and a characteristic of faerie creatures in mythology worldwide.

Let me direct some of the more well-read members of the forum to the Myths and Monsters 2001 talk given by researcher Tony Healy (co-author of Out of the Shadows and the soon-to-be-released The Yowie File), who has also explored the paranormal dimension to the yowie in his talk "High Strangeness in Yowie Reports": Are the hairy giants flesh and blood - or are they psychic phenomena? Yowies appear to be part of a world-wide phenomenon of strikingly similar traditions of uncatchable ape-men occur in many other parts of the world.

I reproduce it here in full because I know 99.9% of people won't bother to look it up or consider any of the arguments :shock:

Ruby

"The vast majority of people who report yowie sightings sincerely believe they haveencountered living, breathing animals - some kind of extremely elusive ape or giant,primitive hominid. Their eyewitness testimony is supported by footprints, tree bites and otherphysical evidence which proves the creatures are much more than mere hallucinations. Thereare, however, many other elements of the mystery which suggest it may not be ananthropological or zoological problem at all - but perhaps something a great deal weirder:some kind of psychic phenomenon.

Many yowie researchers dislike any mention of the supernatural and feel that proponents ofthe paranormal are attempting to solve one problem by creating another. They are concernedthat people who raise the spectre - so to speak - of the paranormal will strengthen the hand ofthe sceptics, confuse the media and scare off those few scientists who have been courageousenough to express an interest in cryptozoology.I can understand their reactions - I had the same attitude myself for several years.

But if wereject everything about the yowie which smacks of the paranormal we will have to sweep approximately 20% of the accumulated data under the carpet. To do that would be not onlyunscientific - but also plain dishonest. Nothing would thrill me more than for someone to prove conclusively that yowies arephysically real - but I now suspect that will never happen. After 25 years on their trail I am strongly inclined to believe the creatures are shape-shifting phantoms which may alwaysremain beyond human comprehension.I may be wrong ( and in fact I hope I am ) but as Fred Beck, one of the miners who wasinvolved in the famous 1924 bigfoot encounter, known as the Ape Canyon Incident, oncesaid, ?It is no sin to be wrong, just as it does not make a person a saint to be right.?

(1)There are many reasons why I suspect there is something quite uncanny about the yowie. Idon't have space here to discuss them all, so I will focus instead on just three majorconsiderations:1. Elusive hairy giants are a world-wide phenomenon.Uncatchable hairy ape-men have been reported in every state and territory of Australia, invirtually every state and province of the USA and Canada, in Guatemala, Panama, Colombia,Brazil, Argentina, Russia, Nepal, China, Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, NewGuinea, New Zealand, Kenya, India and even Japan.For centuries tens of thousands of armed men - aboriginies, explorers, trappers, hunters,prospectors, soldiers - have roamed most of the areas concerned, wiping out whole species oflarge animals - and races of people - yet no museum has so much as a finger bone of a yeti toexamine.

I just cannot see how giant apes could have avoided being captured, killed or clearlyphotographed in one or other of those areas - unless they have an avoidance technique whichis way beyond our ken.Yowie and bigfoot - the terrible twinsI now believe that the elusive ape-men of Australia and North America are not just verysimilar but are, in fact, exactly the same creature. There is not space here to list all thesupporting evidence but it boils down, essentially, to this:In virtually all aspects of their appearance, their behaviour and the reactions they engender inother animals, in tribal people, modern witnesses, believers and sceptics, the animals areidentical. (2)There is reason to suspect the Himalayan yeti and several other types of elusive ape-men arealso part of the same phenomenon.

2. Hot Spots: The yowie/black panther/lake monster/UFO connectionThe second major consideration is this: localities which produce hairy man reports alsofrequently produce reports of other strange phenomena.In the year I spent on the trail of the sasquatch I concentrated, naturally, on areas whereNative Americans had always believed in the hairy giants and where white people hadreported sightings since the frontier days. To my surprise I found that in virtually all of thoselocations people had also reported a variety of other strange, uncatchable animals. The mostcommon of these were ?black panthers? and Loch Ness style lake and river monsters. Severalof these "hot spots" also produced a large number of UFO reports.To give just one example:?O Canada - you're so weird?Many sasquatch sightings have occurred near the village of Easterville, Manitoba, which issituated on a thin isthmus surrounded by Lake Winnipeg, Lake Winnipegosis and Cedar Lake,all of which have produced many lake monster reports.The lake monsters have been seen out of the water, on beaches or in swamps, on at least threeoccasions. On one occasion a sasquatch was seen wading out of Lake Winnipeg. Although mountain lions are believed not to exist at all in Manitoba, four ?black panther?sightings also occurred in the immediate area. The three different types of mystery animalswere all reported within a radius of 10 miles. In North Carolina and Florida I interviewed people whose properties had been visited by boththe bigfoot and black panthers. One witness had been fortunate enough to sight both types ofanimal. Here in Australia the same pattern has emerged: many yowie ?hot spots? such as the BlueMountains and the Batemans Bay to Bega area also produce reports of several other types ofstrange, elusive animals. As in America the most common of these is the ?black panther?,and, as in America, some lucky individuals have actually seen both types of creatures.

Yowies and bunyips
The unlikely link between giant ape-men and lake and river monsters is less evident inAustralia than in America, but I believe it does exist.One area which has produced a plethora of yowie, black panther and bunyip reports since the1820s is the ACT and immediate environs.

(3)The UFO/Yowie LinkIn North America an apparent link between bigfoot and UFOs has been noted on manyoccasions. Between June 1973 and February 1974 in western Pennsylvania there was aphenomenal outbreak of weirdness which yielded 118 bigfoot and not less than 600 UFOreports. On a dozen occasions low flying UFOs were reported immediately before or after abigfoot sighting.

(4)Definite yowie/UFO connections are much rarer but they have been reported.In January 1975 people near Goolma NSW observed a UFO descend and possibly land. Overthe following two weeks there was an intense wave of yowie reports - which suddenly ceasedafter a second UFO was seen.

(5)Some yowie and bigfoot enthusiasts simply ignore the apparent UFO connection and others,like the irascible Rene Dahinden, love to ridicule the idea. Sometimes, however, the link is soobvious it simply can't be swept aside.Consider these two cases:(a) On 27 September 1973 two witnesses in Beaver County, Pennsylvania, told of seeing awhite, hair-covered creature with red eyes ?carrying a luminescent sphere in its hand?. Otherpeople saw a strange craft hovering over the woods into which the creature disappeared.

(6)(b) In June 1975 at Tailem Bend, SA, two groups of people saw a giant hairy ape-man withwhat looked like a lantern in his hand. A third group saw a huge illuminated dome-shape inthe same field.

(7)Significantly, local Aborigines say the Murray River at Tailem Bend is inhabited by a bunyipknown as the Moolgewanke which resembles an ape-like man ?more than ten feet tall ... longblack hair, dark red eyes, large teeth and webbed hands and feet.?

(8)So at Tailem bend we have a yowie/bunyip / UFO link. 3. High Strangeness in Yowie reportsThe third major consideration is simply the sheer, out- and- out weirdness of some details insome reports. Some of the weirdest details have cropped up time and again, in both Australiaand overseas.

?Nameless dread?
No doubt an unexpected encounter with an 8 foot tall ape would give anyone a bit of a jolt,but some yowie witnesses - and their horses and dogs as well - become much more frightenedthan you would reasonably expect.In 1912 a surveyor, Charles Harper, said that when he and two assistants were approached by"a huge man-like animal" in the Currickbilly Range of south-east NSW his fierce huntingdogs retreated whining and one of his assistants fainted and ?remained unconscious forseveral hours.?

(9)Exactly the same thing happened near Easterville, Manitoba, in the early 1970s: a witnessfainted dead away, later suffered recurring nightmares and could not sleep without a loadedgun beside his bed.

(10)In 1998, at a village on the NSW south coast, a friend of mine noticed a huge hairy hominidobserving her from the treeline and immediately experienced almost unbearable fearcombined with the feeling that her spine was literally in the icy grip of something quitesinister.Later, on a nearby fire trail the horse she was riding stopped dead, trembled, almost crouched,and stared fixedly into the bush. Seconds later, as the woman again felt the icy fear, the horseturned and, unprompted, galloped three miles home.That story illustrates one of the strangest things about the ?nameless dread?: you don?t have toactually see, hear, or smell the hairy giants to be poleaxed by overwhelming fear.Many such reports have been noticed by North American researchers. As early as 1970 LeeTrippett of Oregon stated ?He [the bigfoot] can terrorise you from the far side of a mountain.?Feeling Abominable It seems the elusive hairy giants of the Himalayas also possess the handy ability to zap othercreatures telepathically.In 1983 a Scottish scientist, Bill Grant, was approaching a tiny lake on the Nepal/Tibet borderwhen he was suddenly immobilised by overwhelming fear and a voice- that-was -not-a -voicecommanding him to go no further. Much as he struggled to do so the veteran expeditionerfound that he simply could not take another step forward. He retreated and hours laterreturned to find the psychic barrier had lifted. Cautiously proceeding, he discovered a line ofhuge five toed tracks along the muddy shore.

(11)There is no space to go into it here, but a number of lake monster and alien big cat witnesseshave also experienced the dreaded "nameless dread."

The scent of a yowieIn about 10% of yowie cases the creatures have exuded a mind-bogglingly foul stench. It canbe bad enough to make a person vomit and the pongy pongids seem to be able to release thechoking miasma at will. Usually the smell is compared to that of rotting meat, bat droppings or a ?badly kept countrydunny? but occasionally witnesses say the creatures left a distinct electrical smell ?like burntelectrical wiring?, ?burnt bakelite?, ?a sulphury stink?.
(12)Interestingly, in a very dramatic bigfoot/UFO case in Pennsylvania in 1973, witnessesdescribed a strong smell of sulphur and burning rubber.

(13)Jeepers creepersA weird detail which has cropped up repeatedly in America but also here is that the hairygiants' eyes are said not only to just reflect light but to glow in the dark as if lit from within.

(14)Knock knock, who's there? The polt connection As if the yowie/black panther/bunyip/UFO connection was not weird enough, three cases inour files suggest our Furry Friends might also have something in common with poltergeists.For example, in 1946, when George Nott and his family moved into a long-abandonedproperty near Wilcannia, they heard thumping sounds in the ceiling. Doors swung open,objects flew, and so many pebbles fell on the roof that they ?sounded like a heavy shower ofrain.? At the same time as this classic poltergeist phenomena , huge human-like tracksappeared in the yard and a large, very irate hairy ape-man began to invade the house, oncetrying to drag Mrs Nott outside.Not surprisingly, the family soon moved to an out-station.

(15)What's afoot? Thanks to the work of many investigators and eye-witnesses we now have a pretty goodcomposite description of the average yowie, from the top of his head down to ankle level.After that, however, things become a lot more confusing.Over the past 150 years or so people who have observed the yowies' feet or examined trackshave often disagreed not only on the general shape of the foot but even on the number of toes.Five-toed tracks may be the most common, but three, four and even six-toed tracks have beenreported by apparently reputable people, sometimes immediately after yowie sightings.

(16)The same problem arises in North America - and probably the Himalayas as well.Obviously, something is seriously amiss. Either an army of extremely ham-fisted hoaxers hasbeen at work on two continents for 150 years or the yowie, the sasquatch and company are, asI suspect, shape - shifters.

There is a great deal more extreme weirdness in our files but we do not have space to discussit all here. Instead I will conclude with one particular "high strangeness" case which is takingplace right now.Out of the Blue LabyrinthJerry and Sue O?Connor, the principal witnesses in this case, are happy to have their namesused, but asked me not to reveal the exact location of their property. Suffice to say they live inthe Blue Mountains to the south of the Great Western Highway, where the land immediatlybehind their house falls away into a vast maze of twisting, scrub-covered ravines known asthe Blue Labyrinth.Since moving into the area in September 1997 the O'Connors have been regularly visited byyowies, have seen them on numerous occasions, have fed them and have communicated withthem, both telepathically and by more conventional means.Many people will find the O'Connors' story difficult to accept, so I would like to emphasisehere that everything they have reported - even the apparent telepathic communication - hasbeen reported elsewhere in Australia or overseas.I find their testimony convincing not only because it has been, in effect, corroborated bysimilar testimony, but because I know Sue and Jerry and I trust them.For some time after the yowie activity began, Jerry, a down to earth ex-serviceman, couldhardly believe it himself. "My whole life was spun on its axis", he says. "It changed my wholebelief system."Sue, however, has always been interested in spiritual matters and it is just possible her openspirituality actually triggered the yowie visitations.Shortly after they moved into their house she conducted a quiet ceremony to invite the localnature spirits into their garden. Soon she and Jerry experienced strong feelings of dread and ofbeing watched. Their screen door rattled, the power box slammed, they heard crashing soundsin the scrub and, in November 1999, heard at seemingly point-blank range, a tremendous,terrifying roar as loud as that of a lion, yet indefinably alien - "other worldly".They then found about 30 huge bite marks up to 7 feet above the ground on young bloodwoodtrees, identical to those found by Neil Frost whose house, only a couple of kilometres away, isalso the focus of yowie activity.Deep grooves left by upper canines which were consistently 80 mm apart and by lowercanines which were always 55 mm apart seemed to prove the bites were all made by the sameindividual. It was clearly hunting for grubs. At about 2 o'clock one morning in August 2000 Sue woke from a disturbing dream which wasaccompanied by a weird "electric" feeling, looked up at the window behind their bed and sawa huge animal staring back at her. The creature had a human-sized head which lookeddisproportionatly small as it was set low into a pair of absolutely huge shoulders.As it was illuminated by a streetlight and a full moon, Sue could see the animal had a slimnose, a very wide mouth and a rounded clump of tan-coloured hair on top of its head.

Sue and Jerry have now experienced six similar sightings, always preceded by the strange"electric" dreams, cold chills and fear. To look through the bedroom window the creaturemust be over eight feet tall.It seems highly significant that the visits always occur just before or during Sue's monthlyperiods.For weeks they hid four infra red video surveillance cameras - loaned to them by yowiehunter Dean Harrison - at various key points around the yard. During those weeks the yowieapproached only once. Choosing the only night when a narrow quadrant was not covered bythe cameras, it reached the house and looked in as before.Like Neil Frost, Dean Harrison and others who have tried yowie hunting with infra redcameras, the O'Connors concluded the creatures can either detect IR light .... or read peoples'minds.On 25 October 2000 they hid a sound-activated tape recorder in a hollow stump next to a cliffover which they suspended a feed pot. They selected that particular spot because that sameafternoon, in the same area, Sue had seen a hunched, hairy, tan-coloured ape-like figurerunning through the undergrowth at phenomenal speed. A local man, Brad Croft, had alsorecently seen a huge yowie in the vicinity.In the morning they found the tape had registered heavy bipedal footsteps, the sound ofcamouflage being pulled away, and what sounded like dextrous fingers lifting the recorderand ripping its protective plastic. The final sound was a hollow thump to the feedpot, whichlay empty and shattered 35 feet away.Tracks found by the O'Connors reflect the confusing pattern elsewhere: some are three-toed,some five-toed.Communication {a} Thumping. Basic communication began one night when Jerry impulsively pounded onthe bedroom wall and yelled "how are ya goin' mate?" Two nights later a tattoo of knockscame by way of reply.{b} Crossed Sticks. More recently he has interacted with the creature{s} via patterns hemakes with sticks. He creates a pattern or structure and returns after a night or two to find thepattern has been thoughtfully rearranged. He feels the yowie{s} enjoy this game.{c} Psychic Communication. Not surprisingly, the O'Connors eventually decided the hairygiants had more in common with spirits than they did with normal animals, so Sue triedcontacting the creatures mentally.Eventually, on 31 October 2000, she established a telepathic link with what purported to betheir regular visitor - a female yowie.The creature conveyed that it resided in the "Black Dimension" but was a benign "being oflight" which was drawn to her and her garden.It conveyed its disapproval of the word ?yowie? and seemed to say it was ?of the bunyiprace?. Among other things it informed Sue it was immensely old -essentially immortal.

Recently Jerry, whose family nick-name is "Jock", left food outside the bedroomwindow for the yowie. Shortly thereafter he felt the "electro" sensation followed by a voice inhis head which said quite clearly, "thanks, Jock!"By any standards the O'Connors' story is petty weird, so it is worth repeating that everystrange detail Sue and Jerry mentioned has been reported elsewhere - right up to andincluding the telepathic communication - which has been mentioned frequently in Americaand once, memorably, by a Russian cryptozoologist. His close encounter with an almastigave rise to one of the weirdest headlines I've ever seen: " I HAD MY MIND READ BY THEABOMINABLE SNOW WOMAN OF THE PAMIRS" !----------------I think most open-minded readers will acknowledge that the "high strangeness" aspects of theyowie do suggest rather strongly that Australia's hairy giants are in some way paranormal.I cheerfully admit that, as Paul Cropper sometimes says, the paranormal "explanation" is not areal explanation at all. It is certainly not a complete explanation because it doesn't tell us whatthe yowies actually are. I believe, however, that by indicating what the yowies are not ( i.e.ordinary flesh and blood animals) and by identifying other phenomena to which they areapparently linked (UFOs, "black panthers", poltergeists) the "high strangeness" data may atleast bring us part of the way towards understanding the true nature of these bafflingcreatures.I'm far from the first yowie or bigfoot investigator to speculate about the paranormal. SeveralAmericans, notably John Keel and Jon Beckjord, have been writing about it for years. As farback as the 1930s a pioneer Australian cryptozoologist, RW McKay, noticed the apparentyowie-big cat connection and referred to them as "something supernatural". "Whatever theseanimals are ", he wrote, "they seem to have something protecting them ..." 18Fred Beck, last survivor of the 1924 Ape Canyon Incident, wrote in 1967 that "... wegenuinely fought (the sasquatches) and were quite fearful ... but I was always conscious thatwe were dealing with supernatural beings, and ... the other ( men) felt the same."Something else Fred Beck said is very interesting in light of what the yowie told SueO'Connor about the "Black Dimension": the sasquatches, he said, "... are from a lower plane.When the condition and vibration is at a certain frequency, they can easily, for a time, appearin a very solid body." 19In conclucion I'd like to mention something I heard in the Florida Everglades from a memberof the Miccosukee tribe. Their term for the bigfoot is yati wasagi , meaning "seperated" or"different man"; they, too, believe the creatures can "phase in" from another dimension.One man, Bobby Tiger, said something, which, when I reflect on it now, in the troubled yearof 2001, makes me a little uneasy: 'All these things are part real and part not. We're going tosee more and more of them in different places. Then eventually the world will 'turn over onitself ' - and they'll phase in, while we phase out."Freaky.

Notes:1. Fred Beck, I Fought The Apemen of Mt St Helens, self published, 1967, p. 16.2. For a detailed comparison, see Tony Healy and Paul Cropper, Out of the Shadows, Ironbark/ Macmillen 1994, pp. 153-55.3. Ibid, p.1894. John Green, Sasquatch - The Apes Among Us, Hancock House, 1978, pp.260-61.5. Anderson, F., "The Yowie Mystery", Bigfoot, Tales of Unexplained Creatures. No further bibliographical information available.6. Janet and Colin Bord, The Bigfoot Casebook, Stackpole Books, 1982, p.112.7. Anderson, op. cit. 8. The Advertiser, Adelaide, 5 July 1973.9. Sydney Sun, 10 November 1912.10. Tony Healy, Monster Safari, unpublished MS , 1982, P.229.11. Tony Healy, notes of interview with Bill Grant, Scotland, 1999.!2. Healy and Cropper, op. cit. , pp. 127 and 129.13. Janet and Colin Bord, op. cit., p.115.14. Paul Cropper, notes of interview with Richard McDonald, April 2001.15. Martin McAdoo, If Only I'd Listened To Grandpa, Landsdown Press, 1980, chapter 4.16. Healy and Cropper, op. cit. , pp.141-43.17. McKay, RW, letters to Rod Estoppey, 13 Nov 1934 and 22 April 1940.18. Fred Beck, op. cit. , pp.7 and 10.
It is the dim haze of mystery that adds enchantment to pursuit. - Antoine Rivarol

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Unread post by Mike Williams » Thu Jan 13, 2005 9:23 pm

Pearls of Wisdom.
:D


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Unread post by Nigel&Jeannie » Thu Jan 13, 2005 9:55 pm

Hi All
Would like to think flesh and blood from the things we have heard and seen.....But ya never know so Ithink I might fence sit alittle longer and hope to fall off one day.Cheers to All..
P.S get that tape out their Darren. 8)

brigalow

Unread post by brigalow » Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:10 am

THINK OUTSIDE OF THE SQUARE.

Darren

Unread post by Darren » Fri Jan 14, 2005 7:55 am

Yeah , yeah , yeah ! Okay , ok , ok , :lol: I'm heading out tomorrow arvo' , late ! I'll take it and leave it out with the bait . I've got work to do today , and I have to pick up that secret scent :lol: from in town later .

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Unread post by dawn » Fri Jan 14, 2005 8:41 am

Really interesting post Ruby, thanks for posting it for us. I read a report from america not long ago, where the lady who experienced the encounter was telepathicallyasked why she kept her cat in a cage when they were outside. Whether its from a dark dimmension or a dark forest they come from, we certainly seem to be of as much interest to them as they are to us!
I'm not fat.....I'm just fluffy

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Unread post by Jo Blose » Fri Jan 14, 2005 2:44 pm

Not regular flesh and blood animal;

Far too many reports feature physical "impossibilities" exhibited by these creatures for them to be simply an elusive biological hominid. Such features are already covered by our good Mr. Harrison in first-hand experience.

Jon Eric Beckjord, in his Open letter to Dr. Loofs-Wissona, states, "My own research in the field, over twenty years, has gradually brought me, kicking and screaming, over to the idea that the bigfoot creatures (a better term) - here or in Laos, are not from our normal evolution and are outside of taxonomy. .....and the BF exhibits impossible characteristics. In all countries. eg." Mr. Beckjord then lists twenty (20) examples of these characteristics.

In my opinion, three features that separate the bigfoot / yowie phenomena from stock paranormal happenings like hauntings or poltergeists, is that the Yowie is routinely found in heavily wooded areas, the physicality of the creature appears undeniable to the human witness, and routinely reported as looking like a large hairy hominid - not human, with territorial behaviour & even personality.

Sound recordings and footprints, reinforce the physicality achieved by the Yowie. Otherwise, there are certain similarities with hauntings, including the feeling of being watched, the intense feeling of fear, different witnesses having similar experiences at the same general location, etc. The mentioned physicality appears to be the number one popular aspect of the Yowie, as it indicates it's capacity to being filmed, photographed, and recorded by way of sound. That this is so rarely achieved, increases it's intrigue.

If the Yowie can oscillate between a state of physicality and non-physicality, then we are forced to explore the mechanics employed for this to be possible. To offer such an explanation, I will draw upon the ancient study of alchemy and teachings of Hermes, Aquinas, and Aristotle.

Though we immediately associate alchemy, with a fanciful endeavour of trying to transmute lead into gold, the alchemists were primarily concerned with the properties of matter. One of the fundamental alchemists, Hermes, as quoted by Flamel in (Hieroglyphical figures. London. 1624, page 37), contended matter was threefold, "our stone hath semblably to a man, body, soul, and spirit." According to Richards (1982, page 34), in the eighth century AD, another set of terms became popular: "Salt, Sulphur, Mercury." Equal to Body, Soul, Spirit.

Aristotle later concluded there were two properties concealed in matter being matter and form. Aquinas varied the terminology of matter to be "prime matter" and "second matter". The matter we see all around us would therefore be second matter. Second matter being the end result of the union of prime matter and the form. Bear with me.....

The alchemists improved on these terminologies to be: First matter = Spirit = Mercury
Form = Soul = Sulphur
Second matter = Body = Salt

To cut a long story short, the contention put forward by Lewis in the (Rosicrucian manual, 1966, page 167), is the First matter is purely empty space, which when stressed under certain conditions or the addition of the "Form", forms very minute focal points of electrical charge - or electrons. According to Richards(1982, p. 41), "since electrons are the building blocks of the atom, and the atom is the building blocks of ponderable chunks of matter (or second matter), one can see how a cloud of electrons could be formed into solid matter by mind power."

To apply this to the Yowie phenomenon would basically imply that the Yowie "Form" or "Soul" haunts certain areas it is attracted to like a ghost, if you will. Under certain conditions, it can then condense empty space into electrons, that build to become atoms, and then form a pre-determined shape - big hairy hominid. For all intents and purposes - as solid as you or I. Or even partially solid or semi solid.

To make a huge leap, perhaps the emotions of some human targets, particularly fear, or even sexual energy (as many sightings are reported by courting couples) are siphoned by the creature and used as a catalyst in the solid matter creation process. Perhaps the solid matter formed in this process, like the well documented cases of materialised spirits in seances from yonder years, is of a less permanent nature - the atoms, etc., not adhering together as strongly as ours or regular solid matter does, which is why they can vanish (or de-materialise) as quickly as they do.

Aside from the "impossibilities" of the Yowie I have referred to, in putting forth this proposition, many reports also mention a "sulphurous" smell following the encounter, like the smell from an electrical discharge. This electrical discharge smell strengthens this argument by virtue of "electrons" also being inherently electrical and allegedly involved in this wham bam type of matter formation. Additionally, many reports also mention the nearby proximity of power lines which, by virtue of carrying electricity - electrons - might also be factored into support for this argument.

As much as this is all still speculation, it is educated speculation drawing upon reported facets of the Yowie phenomenon and utilising studies initiated by Hermes and Aristotle. Hopefully, this little post has illustrated how the "impossible" might not be so impossible after all.

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Unread post by Ruby Lang » Fri Jan 14, 2005 3:09 pm

Nice post Joe.

And to those who responded, it's heartening to see that there are others who entertain the possibility that the yowie is not a flesh and blood creature (or if it is, it is only that way for a short period of time!).

Ruby
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Unread post by dawn » Fri Jan 14, 2005 4:14 pm

Great post Joe!!! :D
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Unread post by Dean Harrison » Fri Jan 14, 2005 6:09 pm

Excellent post Joe - as per usual. You never fail to impress.




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Unread post by Dion » Sat Jan 15, 2005 2:55 pm

Hey all

Firstly I would like to say what a fabulous job Dean and the guys at Webslave have done on this site. It deserves a round of applause, and hopefully in the near future we will have some hard evidence of the existence of the Yowie.

Now, in regards to the flesh and blood paranormal theory, I dont have the experience out in the bush with these creatures to comment.

So I am going to have to resort to my knowledge in the spiritual. I have a few theories.
Please bear with me this may be a long post, but it tie's into why people have such strong feelings while in the presence of these creatures.

Most of you would of heard of the aura, which can be 'seen' and 'felt' by some.
It is a physical extension of the physical body, but subtle none the less. We humans being materialistic as we are have 'forgotten' this simple fact.

Anyway, every living thing exibits an aura, Human, Animal, Plant life etc, even non living things exibit an aura but at a lesser extent and it's of no importance here.

Now, how does this all tie in with the Yowie you ask?

Well here it goes;

how many of you have been for a walk in the bush and after a matter of minutes walking, have felt a hieghtened awareness of you surroundings i.e start to hear birds that previously had not heard before and so on.
This is your aura strenghtening and growing in awareness of your surroundings. For those that have experienced this you will know what I mean, for those of you who have not,well , you need to get outdoors more.

The aura becomes stong when out with nature away from the hustle and bustle of everyday life, away from the electromagnetic technology that we seem to put ourselves through on a daily basis.
Something the Yowie has a big advantage over!
I believe the Yowie has such a strong auric field, that it becomes a 'presence'.
Such a 'presence' in fact, that it can be 'felt'.
The aura is a physical reality, but people forget its there because they cannot see it.
A strong aura becomes a powerful 'presence', and when someone is in the vicinity if one you can 'feel' their emotions, literally.
This would explain the strong 'feel'ings that people have while out in the bush with these creatures.

These are just my personal thoughts and feelings on the matter, and because I don't have the experience with these creatures, I can only give you my knowledge of spiritual matters

Now, in regards to the paranormal theory, well, there could be a few reasons why they simply disappear, but I think I will keep those theories as theories for the moment, and be one of the others and fence sit awhile.

Sorry but its safer there.
“The day science begins to study non-physical phenomena, it will make more progress in one decade than in all the previous centuries of its existence.” - Nikola Tesla

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Unread post by Dean Harrison » Sat Jan 15, 2005 4:59 pm

Nice to see yet another well worded post on this Forum.....

What you wrote is quite similar to to what I had thought for many years.


Well done and keep contributing.


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Unread post by Dion » Sun Jan 16, 2005 8:47 am

I'm glad that I could shed some light on this subject for people, after all lifes about helping each other out! :wink:
“The day science begins to study non-physical phenomena, it will make more progress in one decade than in all the previous centuries of its existence.” - Nikola Tesla

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Unread post by Micahn » Sun Jan 16, 2005 5:12 pm

Howdy All
I believe the Yowie as well as Bigfoot and all the other names they are called are Flesh and Blood animals.
I will add to that and say that I believe that they just may be descendants of Gigantopithecus.

The Yowie I believe should be easier for people to believe in then things like Bigfoot and here is why.
If you think about it large apes live not all that far from Australia right now. Orangutans live in Sumatra as well as other places that are not all that far from Australia if you think about it. And if you look up the history on it they used to even live much closer then they do now. If the Native people there migrated there why could some apes not done the same thing ? Sure it can be said that the Fossil record does not show any, Well the same thing can be said about many different animals that we have today yet they are listed as real animals.

Anyway this is my first post here so I guess this is a long one for that lol.

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Unread post by Dean Harrison » Sun Jan 16, 2005 5:45 pm

Hi Michan,

Thanks for your thoughts. Lets see how History pans out - you just may be correct.

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Unread post by MAGZDA » Tue Jan 18, 2005 10:59 am

It's flesh and blone. It is as real as you or I.
Im just a simple man try'na make my way in the universe.

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Unread post by MAGZDA » Tue Jan 18, 2005 11:10 am

It's flesh and bones. It's as real as you or I.
Im just a simple man try'na make my way in the universe.

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Unread post by mikka » Tue Jan 18, 2005 1:39 pm

Darren wrote:I'd have to say , I believe they are F/B ! The footprints , all the damage done , the fact they've been seen carting off small dogs ect . . . the sound of them crashing through the bush , the unknown hair samples that have been found , bush beds , the list goes on ! All of these , and more , push towards F/B ! They're just very good at what they do . . . and I believe they are intelligent enough to know , human = trouble !
sums up exactly what my thoughts are :D
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Unread post by Mike Williams » Tue Jan 18, 2005 7:56 pm

good to see the topic rolling along.

" I believe they are F/B ! The footprints"

we have dealt with this one before,many times<weep>some of us believe the creatures are paranormal, hence the things exists to some degree in this world and can interact sometimes with the enviroment.
The word paranormal just means "beyond normal".
The morphology of the foot, its not constant.
3/4/5 toes take your pick , which is it.
How many toes does it have.
Name another animal in the world that, within the species there is such a great variation.
Or outside it :)


> , all the damage done

see above

> the fact they've been seen carting off small dogs >ect . . . the sound of them crashing through the bush

first argument is postulated to deal with those.!
dont know of any specific cases, can you tell me please.

> the unknown hair samples

Are named "unknown" for good reason.
When they are found oneday they they will be examined for dna, until then though.....

>that have been found , bush beds , the list goes on !

Lists yes,evidence and answers, no.


>All of these , and more , push towards F/B !

Great , then the reason it has never been photographed/videotaped/shot/bodies found/run over/trapped etc etc etc is?????????????????
name another large animal living in a country like US or OZ like this please.??
And the reason why some observers report glowing red eyes is."??????????
And then is in the dark with NO illumination other than moon.
They must be lying, or if not, its "real".
If its a real observation then tell us other animals that have this ability.
Thats terrestial animals, please no lame marine analogies.
And why do some aboriginals refer to it as
1/doesnt exist
2/its flesh and blood
3/its a spirit.
Name another f/b animal in Australia with such a diverse koori belief system associated with it.?????


> They're just very good at what they do .

The problems stated here sort of porthole that idea.
And jeepers, they are popping up in the UK now.
http://www.cfz.org.uk/expeditions/03bolam/index.htm
Plus, in the book "Three men seeking monsters'" we have another account of large hairymen been seen in a forest by multiple observers including one zoologist.
The old F/B gang has two choices.
1/call the above stories hoaxes/lies because they realise the implausability of an undiscovered monster ape man running around UK .
2/Admit there is an undiscovered form of ape man running around UK.
drum roll please............ :D
damn facts they always get in the way of a good theory.

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Unread post by bowhunter » Wed Jan 19, 2005 8:10 am

hi all, love the site can't get enough of it. F&B or paranormal? Well lets see, not too long ago i was wandering through the bush as I often do. Like chewy said after a few minutes i began to hear birds and animals that i had previously been deaf too. I also felt i was being watched. I couldnt hear anything but birds now in the trees, it was almost physical the feeling i wasnt alone, i stopped in the track to listen out, within seconds my dog was at my feet,he had been following me since i left home without me knowing,now i would hardly say my dog is supernatural but i certainly knew he was there the point is that even if something is flesh and blood it still sends out a vibe. Maybe im going nowhere with this but i think the yowie is an animal just like an ape or a dog or a human.I think the scared feeling some people get is because of the unknown danger associated with yowie's, that is we dont know enough about them and of course hunman nature is to fear what we dont understand.But i dunno im talking out my a@#
Noone believed in gorillas you know,until someone found one...

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