Concealling electronic equipment

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AustralopithecineOz
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Concealling electronic equipment

Unread post by AustralopithecineOz » Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:32 am

Hi, I put this in off the topic because it probably relates to all board topics I think...

I've been giving some thought to camouflaging digital equipment. I can remember watching Meer Cat manor or some such program where they used 'rock' cameras that were remote controlled (movement) but at the end of the day looked pretty stealthy. The one in the link below is not remote controlled but claims it can operate for up to a year with the batteries conserved by 'shutting down' the camera during non motion. Sounded great but I'm not happy with the $600 price tag. It got me thinking though...

Has anyone had any experience with fibreglass? How hard would it be to make waterproof 'rocks' or 'logs' to hold audio recorders for example. The convenience of being able to place them directly on the ground wherever you wanted would be advantageous I reckon. And stealthy. A rock is just a rock. A log is just a log. The only thing that might be a concern would be smell perhaps? The thing that might identify a 'rock' or 'log' as foreign.

Anyway... just putting it out there. Any thoughts?

http://www.smarthome.com/72406/KJB-Secu ... =RSS200511
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Dion
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Re: Concealling electronic equipment

Unread post by Dion » Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:32 pm

Nice idea BUT......

I am starting to believe that Yowies can sense electronic equipment, as gear has been hidden in rocks and logs before with no result, you may also have the problem of the fake rock in question not being indigenous to the area/s your working in therefore making the fake rock stand out.

Just two thoughts that came to mind.
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Re: Concealling electronic equipment

Unread post by AustralopithecineOz » Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:03 pm

Discussions today sort of went well away from fiberglass. As Dion said it could be just that its material foreign to the area. Perhaps if the recorder was left in a general piece of flotsam type wood from the same forest. Just a 3" hole bored in at an appropriate angle. something really natural. Might evade a yowie? Unless they can smell the plastic inside? Anyway maybe worth a go. I'm not convinced they are so shy of electronics that they can't be caught out I suppose. :)

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Re: Concealling electronic equipment

Unread post by Dion » Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:06 pm

Everything is always worth a try no harm in doing so.


Cheers mate :wink:
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Re: Concealling electronic equipment

Unread post by Rusty2 » Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:14 pm

Hey there Dave , apart from the fact that they can either hear , smell or sense the gear , I have to mention that you seem to be overlooking 1 aspect to all this . Now for god's sake dont take this the wrong way and please dont be offended , and I know you wont , lol , BUT , you seem to be assuming that your alone while deploying these device's .

Its a bit like cars driving past your house , you dont take much notice . When 1 stops or or pulls into your driveway it catches your attention straight away .

It is the same with these creature's . Your car pulls up and they all go into action . The family moves away or into hiding while the head honcho's move in to watch what the humans are up to . It has been my experience that they'll watch you and watch everything you do until you leave , sometimes escorting you unnoticed back to your vehicle , its in their best interest to do so . They know where you put your stuff and what you leave behind and will activly avoid the area if there's any suspect activity .

As I mentioned before I'm not having a shot at you but this is a fact .

The question is , how do you deploy the gear without being noticed ?

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Re: Concealling electronic equipment

Unread post by AustralopithecineOz » Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:44 am

Hey Rusty! No offence taken mate. I ask my silly questions here because I get some great info and advice that I really appreciate.

I know I'm monitored at the feeding rock. If there are no cameras, VOR seems fine, the fruit is taken within hours of me leaving (peeled bananas left etc...). If there's a camera there the animals munch out for the coming days and that's obvious. This time around I have left a large heavy rockmelon set up so it would be difficult for a possum to roll it off the rock. (not my idea... actually yours passed on by another member). And yes there is a daytime camera there taking a photo every 3 seconds. No IR. I can't help myself trying. I can't explain it. I just do.

Anyway... the rock isn't my primary concern any more. I actually don't think its a site that Dooligahl are too comfortable with anyway. Its a position thing. Everything I am trying to do now with the recorders is try and get closer to the actual positions of the forest knocking we have been recording each time both day and night. There are as we speak three recorders set in a 4 km sort of triangle around the feeding rock. The idea is to try and pinpoint the forest sources and move the baiting regime closer to their real habitat. We know they are there somewhere because they are actually quite noisy when they add to the sounds of the forest.

So as far as this time goes I suppose I am expecting to get photos of currawong pecking a rockmelon. And everyone can say I told you so. That's cool. But as I said earlier I'm just not totally convinced yet that they can't be 'caught out' with electronics. I've heard too many recordings of bi-pedal walking near recorders, yours and others, to say that they can avoid VOR. Other words 'caught out'.

I intend to try everything I can. The knocking fascinates me. We have recordings that seem to indicate knocks being responded to by different sounding knocks (communication?) both night and day. There is definite activity right now in that forest. So that's what we are chasing. One recorder is set up at an infrequent site of human contamination to rule it out in the big picture of things and the other two recorders tell me if I should be going in a different direction if that makes sense?

I am going to leave at least a VOR wherever I try. A piece of forest timber with a 3" hole drilled seems the most unobtrusive method. It has to be better than an obvious piece of ag pipe. Can they smell or sense electronics? I don't know. Can they see them? Definitely. Can they see or sense IR? I believe so. Can they be caught out? I'll see.

Cheers Dave :)

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Re: Concealling electronic equipment

Unread post by Dion » Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:40 am

When I said they can sense electrical equipment I still believe they can, camera traps especially, even voice activated recorders I believe they know they are there, and even though you can get audio from the yowies on them, they may come in just because they are curious, they CAN sense them and I say that because off Rickrockets (Tony’s) endeavour to hide one in a log, there was no way any human could have found it. It was hidden well, very well, yet whatever took his food offerings also decided to stick its finger in this log and take the recorder, which means they can sense these things (electrical equipment).

Also is the thought that some recorders more than others may emit sounds (electrical wavelengths) that can be picked up by them, just a thought.

Why is it that some Yowies take recorders and others don’t?, I think it comes down to the differing personalities of them each one is going to be different on how they tackle your equipment. If they are smart enough to know the difference between a camera and a recorder then there is something going on which defies explanation.

Another reason I cringe when people call them animals, if they were animals we would have numerous evidence by now.

Just some more random thoughts
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Re: Concealling electronic equipment

Unread post by AustralopithecineOz » Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:07 pm

Hi Dion, I appreciate everything your saying as well as Rusty. It's a learning curve for me and I am learning lessons. But really what am I to do. Say 'oh well no electronics everyone's proved that?' well... Probably.

It seems a shame to me that Mr Rickrocket disappeared. I know nothing of him or his research other than brief comments made here and I can't access the videos often remarked on because as far as I can work out he removed them. I follow everyones research, or at least what they care to share and from what I glean Rickrocket's was pretty substantial. Shame I missed it. I have to say though I'm the type of bloke that needs to see these things for myself. Can't help it. I have to prove to myself what others suggest. I cannot find it in me to blindly follow another's thoughts. Sure I can learn from people's experiences and I eventually do most times but at the end of the day I need to experience it too. If I took for granted the opinion of 99.9% of the population I wouldn't be chewing up hours in the bush trying to find a Dooligahl. (no brains)

Having ranted all that. Sorry so many I's...:) Its probably spot on the money that they 'know and avoid' electronic equipment. I can now accept it. I think this time around should the camera capture nothing and animals chow-down that I will have proved it to myself. All I can hope for in regards to pinpointing 'our' yowies at the moment though is capture their sounds. From that hopefully pinpoint a location and with forum members experience and help nut out a plan of action then. Currently we're just chasing sounds in a valley and electronics concealed or not have to play their part. When we pinpoint them though we'll put out fruit. If they take the fruit I'll leave out the electronics and come back here pleading for idea's on what to do next (confused)

One VOR I'm not concealing is an attempt at something that will 'hear' better than a VOR in a pipe. As far as I can see the 'ears' are constrained by the surrounding pipe. I wanted to hang an omni-directional mic. from a high place (tree probably) and still use a cheap VOR. Probably because of Didge's recent experience. All great till I have to account for the weather. So the VOR will go in the pipe, the lead will travel to the little hood I've made and it'll be hung up on something and able to 'hear' in all directions. I could probably cammo the little hood but I don't see much point. Cheers Dave :)
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Re: Concealling electronic equipment

Unread post by Rusty2 » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:03 pm

I agree Dave , everyone has to find out for themselve's . Seriously good luck with it all , I hope you can do better than I did .

At first , I honestly thought I was going to get video of them within a few months at most . (lol) What a doof .

I honestly wondered what all the fuss was about , there's a monkey in the bush , I'm gonna film it , easy . How wrong could I be .

It was after a few months that I realised what a task it was going to be , and after finding their location , their footprints , their hair sample's and the noise's they made , it dawned on me that they are much smarter than monkey's . I had to come up with a new discription .

Creature ! It was the nearest thing that fit with what I had experienced , what I'd found and what they were doing .

I seriously dont know how I'm ever gonna film them except for a chance meeting in the bush .

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Re: Concealling electronic equipment

Unread post by Dion » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:18 pm

Hey Dave,

Don’t think I am trying to be degrading in what you’re doing, because you’re doing a great job, an excellent job at that. Yourself, Andrew and Hairy man I know are all working together and are getting good results, The same goes for Rusty, Mrx and didgmaster. Me, I can be a bit lazy at the best of times, and can tend to sit at the computer all day long, I have a trail camera which I plan to use in the future and also plan on buying a VOR. So having said all that I am probably contradicting myself by saying electrical equipment is sensed by them, but I do believe it’s worth a try.

In fact I think VOR are the greatest way of getting good results, I just think they can sense them so I am prepared for it to go missing once I purchase one.

In regards to Rickrocket yeah it’s a shame you didn’t get to see his videos they were good its also a shame he took them down, but I guess he had his reasons.

Cheers
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Re: Concealling electronic equipment

Unread post by AustralopithecineOz » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:34 pm

Hey Rusty and Dion. I appreciate your comments, its why I post here. I appreciate everyone's input its all to much for me alone. Probably why I like the forum so much :D

And thanks guys, Andrew and Hairy Lad have been great. I have made great new friends and if all that comes of this is that I will be grateful. But I've a feeling we are heading somewhere with this even if just for the distant recordings. I pick the equipment up tomorrow now as the weather turns bad on Sunday through to next Thursday so wish us luck with what we retrieve. We seem to have the best luck with Andrew's recorder and these noises , so far, have happened every time we set them out so I'm hoping they are still in the area. (off topic) Been talking with Andrew about seasonal food sources lately and I did notice that the wattle is absolutely laden with seed last time I was up there so I'm wondering if maybe that's what is keeping them hanging around. I'll know more tomorrow. Cheers Dave

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Re: Concealling electronic equipment

Unread post by AustralopithecineOz » Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:36 pm

Hey guys. Went and visited a lonely 'prime condition' Rock melon today and retrieved the camera. Won't see the pictures till tonight but I'm expecting frustrated possums. There has to be a better way...

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Re: Concealling electronic equipment

Unread post by Dion » Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:01 pm

Hey Dave look forward to seeing your video (thumb up)
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Re: Concealling electronic equipment

Unread post by didgmaster » Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:03 pm

Dave,

The more I think about it the the more i come to realise how smart these guys are ! I dont know if i was watched when putting out the recorder the other day , or weather the big guys could sense it, or smell it , but there is no-way that a person just happened to find it, Rusty has expressed to me a few times just how smart these guys are, And Rusty you are right , my recorder was placed tightly between two large rocks then covered with bark and leaves and the small mic was clipped to a small branch with the lead burried ! no part of the recorder was vissible except the tiny mic that was clipped to a small branch , The recorder was in an old irrigation , pop-up sprinkler canister that I sealed up with aquarium silicon ( suposedly its got no odour ) then before hiding it i covered the whole canister with mud and leaves to try to hide my smell ! Now im in the market for a new recorder , i just hope Santa knows !!!

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Re: Concealling electronic equipment

Unread post by AustralopithecineOz » Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:14 am

G'day Didge. It doesn't sound like anyone could have 'found' it. I reckon whenever any of my fruit was taken that it happened within hours of me leaving. All I can say is on those times I must have been 'watched'. Certainly sounds like you might have been too. I liked your comment on Youtube about electrical cable ties and recorders. I don't know any humans who could break them with their bare hands and I'd like to hear the recordings of a yowie who tried. Good luck with the new recorder mate. I hope Santa remembers you :)

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Re: Concealling electronic equipment

Unread post by The yowie Mrx » Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:20 am

100bl fishing line. (thumb up)

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Re: Concealling electronic equipment

Unread post by Dion » Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:04 pm

AustralopithecineOz wrote:Hey guys. Went and visited a lonely 'prime condition' Rock melon today and retrieved the camera. Won't see the pictures till tonight but I'm expecting frustrated possums. There has to be a better way...
What did you end up finding Dave? :)
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Re: Concealling electronic equipment

Unread post by AustralopithecineOz » Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:58 pm

Dion wrote:
AustralopithecineOz wrote:Hey guys. Went and visited a lonely 'prime condition' Rock melon today and retrieved the camera. Won't see the pictures till tonight but I'm expecting frustrated possums. There has to be a better way...
What did you end up finding Dave? :)
Hi Dion... Strangest thing I reckon. I turned up and everything was as it was when I left it. It was the first time I had noticed how dishevelled the place had become though. Meaning crushed logs and moved fallen trees. Over the past 2 months it looks like its had several people crashing around the rock. I was always so careful not to crush anything for this very reason. Anyway no Dooligahl captured, not even a photograph lol. What was strange was out of all the photographs no animals. Is rockmelon something denizons of the bush leave alone? I thought at least a possum would have a crack? Not even a sniff. But anyway without a camera what will happen? see... its very frustrating, but fun (no brains) .

I suppose I should report the rest of the story. On Andrew's recording I could hear nothing. Andrew is better at these things from me and I heard no screams of 'listen to this'. I will note if you like that sort of thing there's some really amazing bird choruses :) The control recorder at a place humans sometimes go recorded no activity. The Third recorder malfunctioned because of users ineptitude with new technology. testing it as we speak.

So one quiet 3 days in that area. I have come to the conclusion that possibly my interference with Ir then trail cam affects the Rock. My last visit there will be to check the rock melon. If its gone. I'll reassess then. So we've heard them but I think we can get a little closer. Andrew has a plan for the western extremity and before that I'm starting on a little audio voyeurism campaign. Call me nuts but I'm still going to set the vor recorders to try and identify where these night noises came from or even if they have moved on to a different part of the valley. I love spending time up there so its not unusual for me to make the trip once a week anyway. I'm sure they are there but I'm learning just how baffling they can be (bushman)

So. I have learnt my lesson with cameras. For now... And hold a lot of hope for thermal. Also musing with directional Parabolic amplifiers (my thanks to blue gem viewtopic.php?f=45&t=3607&p=22999&hilit ... lic#p22999 but that's another plan :) I'm going to see if any carol singing gets done by Yowies in the Valley plus I reckon I'll have to escape the teenagers by then :) Have a really great Christmas mate. Cheers Dave
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Re: Concealling electronic equipment

Unread post by Dion » Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:22 pm

AustralopithecineOz wrote:Call me nuts but I'm still going to set the vor recorders to try and identify where these night noises came from or even if they have moved on to a different part of the valley.
Thanks for that detailed report, I dont think your nuts mate I think VOR is the way to go numerous people are proving it even if the recorder does go missing. (cheers) I wish I had one.

This is the one I have my eye on http://www.oo.com.au/Sony_ICD-UX512_3-i ... 108169.cfm maybe for christmas. :D

Anyway cheers mate keep up the good work. It will hopefully pay off one day.
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andrew

Re: Concealling electronic equipment

Unread post by andrew » Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:20 pm

Hi Dion
Mine is a Samsung WS750 and seems to be remarkably sensitive. On the highest of the three sensitivity settings it recorded (on noise activation mode) about a quarter of the time. Basically every little sound triggers it - that can be either a good or a very annoying feature.

Dave was right - I got nothing as well other than superb bird calls.
The camera only took about 60 pictures in three days - all of wind moved trees and such like. It is also sensitive to the slightest movement. Maybe our friends like the weather to be rough and wild.

It will be good to see what happens while the camera is not there over the Christmas break and what Dave picks up with his recorders.

Last thing, VOR's are fading from use as many new Phones have a record function. The best range of VOR's is still in Office Works - I think. Certainly fewer places are stocking them.

See you soon.

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Re: Concealling electronic equipment

Unread post by Dion » Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:58 pm

Hey andrew I can only find an Olympus ws750 http://www.estore.com.au/Olympus_WS-750 ... vGDHlb4JTk

You sure your not mistaking it for a samsung
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