Re: Evidence Pertaining to The Origins of Bigfoot/Yowie/Yeti

[Dion]

Hey Sensesonfire

Good post I think I have raised some similar points before in the Forum somewhere.

Edit: Not sure where the first post in this thread went or why it was removed but I did not start the thread.

[FM80]

Welcome back Sensesonfire,

Like Dion says, great post. Lots of info in there.

I guess for starters I would put a line through anything related to the bible. When it comes to explaining the world we live in it is completely redundant.

Take the story of Noah for example. It either really happened or it is just metaphor/story used to illustrate a point. Surely it's the latter therefore it's quite likely that the 'Nephilim' or other such stories are much the same.

Yes, bigfoot could be a character from the bible or they could be an as yet unconfirmed species of ape/animal. I'm not sure whether you think that the best explanation of the origin of bigfoot/yowies can be found in the bible or whether it's an attempt to validate a bible myth.

As mentioned in another post, it's the god of the gaps. It's 'we don't know therefore god did it'.

Some other theories include being descendants or remnant populations of Gigantopithecus. But that's not for certain. It's such a great thing to be uncertain until we have evidence for something. I guess that's the main thing, if we don't know something it just means we don't know yet.

There is no mandate that states "everything must be put in to two categories. One is the things that are understood and accounted for- everything else goes in the 'god did it' category."

[sapere aude]

With due respect senseonfire, I'm wondering where the "historical facts" part comes in?

Do you have any genuine sources for these "giants" claims? Such as any published and reviewed works by paleontologists?

Also, it's fine to have beliefs based on the bible, but it is largely the mythology of simple Semitic tribes, who even for their time were rather ignorant (comparatively). I wouldn't put any more faith in it than any other mythology (just IMO, but I would actually put more faith in the native Australian mythology regarding Yowies).

The genesis claim is wrong (ie. the sun and stars existed existed before plants, photosynthesis), we know that life on this planet evolved from a common ancestor etc. The Noah story isn't even possible (there isn't enough water). Some senior Israeli archaeologists and even many Rabbis have concluded that the entire Exodus account is a myth (simply didn't happen) and on and on................Science is slowly removing all of the areas where this god is claimed to exist and relegating the stories to mythology.

It seems clear that Fred Beck claimed to be clairvoyant and considered Sasquatch as "otherworldy beings" claiming all sorts of paranormal abilities and visions. While this might be so, how do we really know it happened the way claimed (or at all)?

Still, there are no known reasons why these creatures appear (and then disappear, as if out of thin air), in the end, who knows?

[FM80]

The bible is a very important cultural and historical book but it should never be used as a source of scientific information.

It was not intended to be used as such and those who use it in this way are getting the wrong answers, plain and simple.

The way I see it, rejecting scientific knowledge and substituting it with what is in the bible is like someone standing in the pouring rain, dripping wet, saying "It's not raining because the bible says it's not".

[sapere aude]

Fair enough, though I would disagree as to the historical importance (or accuracy) of what it contains, as much as the history in the way this book has shaped certain cultures within the last 1500 years or so. I don't really see it as people getting their science from said book, as much as choosing it in preference.

Though the majority of the inhabitants of our planet believe in religion in some form or other. No problem at all there, it's an individual choice as to what people believe this way.

The 36' tall humans sounds intriguing. I doubt that is biologically possible.

[sensesonfire]

Just like to point to two quotes from Fred Beck's book: 1''.First of all, I hope this book does not discourage too much those interested souls who are looking and trying to solve the mystery of the abominable snowmen. If someone captured one, I would have to swallow most of the content of this book, for I am about to make a bold statement: No one will ever capture one, and no one will ever kill one — in other words, present to the world a living one in a cage, or find a dead body of one to be examined by science. I know there are stories that some have been captured but got away. So will they always get away.'' Unquote. ( I absolutely agree; you will NEVER capture one. )
2.''There is no doubt in my mind that these beings were present and observing us, but they had not yet appeared in physical form''. [Unquote]. ( It is my belief that these creatures are metaphysical beings able to manifest from the supernatural to the physical form. )


To sapere aude : I am putting forward an alternative view because we cannot have one based on scientific facts because there is none. Yes, you may have hair samples, footprints, scats and that's about all but when presented for scientific analyses the same result - inconclusive. What do YOU think these creatures are?, some form of evolutionary ape because if they were your scientists would have no problem proving it through DNA. You mentioned whether I have historical facts regarding these giants? These skeletons of supernatural size have been unearthed for centuries. You have newspapers reports, photographs of the skeletons as they were excavated,( some with reported six fingers and toes and two sets of teeth) documented reports - what else do you want? As I mentioned when authorities got an inkling of what was happening they closed it down. They have these skeletons but the public will never see them because science has no satisfactory explanation ( the same with crop circles, SHC, aliens, UFO's etc.) and to acknowledge these giants means that with no scientific explanation they may have to face up to the dreaded alternative - a biblical explanation.

Instead of attacking my Biblical explanation how about bringing forward a scientific explanation.

[sapere aude]

I am putting forward an alternative view because we cannot have one based on scientific facts because there is none.

I understand and also completely agree completely with the last part of your sentence.

What do YOU think these creatures are?

Absolutely no idea. Though I am open to "paranormal" explanations, possibly in a different way though. I also don't agree that "paranormal" in this sense, necessitates leaving science behind (the purely biological sciences perhap) sand simply accepting/ or not people with claims of paranormal abilities or ideas.

You have newspapers reports, photographs of the skeletons as they were excavated,( some with reported six fingers and toes and two sets of teeth) documented reports - what else do you want? As I mentioned when authorities got an inkling of what was happening they closed it down.

Fair enough. Though I find the conspiracy angle difficult to believe. Not the least because I see the claims in many instances as being less than physically possible to begin with. There is a reason humans can only reach a certain size before encountering all sorts of related health problems.

Instead of attacking my Biblical explanation how about bringing forward a scientific explanation.

Not so much "attacking", no harm in being a bit rigorous though . I like your posts, it's not personal in any way and if I show some disdain for certain religious beliefs, I know people far more intelligent than I who are given to such things (yet I don't agree with them, either).

I agree there appears no satisfactory explanation. That includes either scientific, or paranormal, at this stage (IMO). No harm in saying "don't know". That's how I see it.

[sapere aude]

ps. Sensesonfire, the quote below says a lot IMO. I hope Mike doesn't mind. Whether I can agree with his conclusions or interpretations being another thing, I don't doubt the honesty here. In fact I admire the way he puts his bigfoot research up for scrutiny and accepts criticism/comments, without taking things personally. The way it should be IMO.

Though when we start talking creatures emitting light from their eyes and (as seems inferred) being able to change the frequency (colour) either at will or in concert with emotions.............When we take into account the extreme implausibility of breeding populations remaining hidden and the fact that there really is nothing to even really suggest such things physically exist without a including lot of bias (apart from encounters), it doesn't seem unreasonable to wonder if something else might be going on here. There are similar Yowie reports (light emitting eyes), which makes no sense.

Though I understand people look at the simplest and most logical reason (that they must exist as an undiscovered biological species), I have some doubts.

The place I selected has no other ambient light on purpose, but their are houses within 2 miles to the north. In one direction, which is north, some times they hide their eyes against the distant houses. To the south they cannot. Once a small one was behind a fence. I walked up to the fence and its eye was red light looking a laser pin. I spoke and word and it changed to white like it was acknowledging it was me. It was an awesome feeling.

The coolest thing I have seen in Colorado and Oklahoma was when the little ones get excited in red eye mood. They must jump up and down and looks like a laser pin making w's as it fades away.

viewtopic.php?f=67&t=4618

[sapere aude]

Sorry, no edit function. The link at the end was the wrong one.


viewtopic.php?f=45&t=4604&start=30

[FM80]

They have these skeletons but the public will never see them because science has no satisfactory explanation ( the same with crop circles, SHC, aliens, UFO's etc.) and to acknowledge these giants means that with no scientific explanation they may have to face up to the dreaded alternative - a biblical explanation.

Instead of attacking my Biblical explanation how about bringing forward a scientific explanation.

Do you have any of the reports about these skeletons? Where would be the best place for me to find information about them? All I keep coming up with is hoaxes.

There are some plausible natural explanations being put forward regarding the origins of yowies/bigfoot. There's some food for thought in Meldrum's 'Legend Meets Science' book. The book doesn't attempt to solve the issue regarding their origin, it merely explores the various possible scenarios, there's too much to summarise here.

There is no dreaded 'biblical explanation'.

It's not science vs religion.

Science wasn't invented to oppose religious beliefs.

Actually the more we discuss this, the more I see the word 'science' starting to take on a whole new meaning. What I mean is when I keep mentioning science over and over, it must appear as if 'science' is an institution or religion itself in direct competition with religion, that both are on an equal footing and that both have plausible explanations of the natural world. This is not the case though. Science is just the process of humans trying to explain our universe, if what was discovered supported bible myths then so be it. It hasn't and that's where we're at. I guess people have to decide whether to accept that we are standing beneath a torrential downpour of information and explanations (which are far more interesting, mind blowing and beautiful than any of the religious myths) or to stand there soaking wet and say that they are dry.

[sensesonfire]

To everybody out there: although I stand by my theories about Bigfoot/Yowie I am rescinding any comment I have made about giant skeletons with relation to some of the images in the video. Although I do believe giant skeletons have been unearthed I have discovered one of those images are fake ( photoshopped ). I'm posting two quotes from two guys who worked on two excavation sites. The first one on the fake image site the second on a genuine site.

1.jp cavigelli
I have first hand experience with the first and second photos above. That skull is Photoshopped into a scene from a dinosaur dig in Niger in 1993. I am the guy the white hat on the left. I was there. There was NO giant human skull at this dig site. NONE. ZERO. Only dinsoaur bones, like the ones you see in the rest of the photo. Those are dinosaur bones, not human. Whoever did the photoshopping did a good job, but don’t be fooled. Here is a link to the real original photo. http://www-news.uchicago.edu/releases/p ... xpedition/

If the religious people are using this picture to prove the existence of biblical giants, then they are liars. Believe in the bible stories if you must, but these photos are NOT the proof.


2.Michael Boros
Hello everyone. I am an engineering and science major at Portland State University. On 8/17/2012 at the coordinates, 28 degrees 11’54 39”N, 115 degrees 34’ 51.93”W, about 50 miles off the coast of Baja Mexico, an extremely large complex and walls, the top only feet from the surface of the water and the base goes down as far as 14000 feet in some areas. At the base of this structure and can been seen with the new Google earth with the latest updates, an execution site of very giant looking people. Three can be identified very clearly. The extreme depth must have preserved the bodies. Don’t take my word for it. Get on google earth and look for your self. The dirt pile on and down the side of the structure is believed to be a burial mound covering a mass grave. The best view of the giant bodies is on the left side of the mound at the base of the structure. They are chained to brackets. And chains can be seen very clearly as well. Anyone has any questions email me at mboros4@hotmail.com, I can provide more detailed information. I have hundreds of hours with this site so far. And have identified others.
I can provide references for conformation. Geological dept of PSU will go on record site does look man made not natural. NOAA research in Maryland is also looking into the site. Their contact is 301-734-1123.
I don’t know if this will turn into a cover up. I would like to get people to get on google earth and see all the features before they get erased. Although the structure is so enormous and only 50 miles off the coast with a dirt pile on top, being called a small island, I cant imagine how anyone is going to make this story disappear. Best I can guess they will call it a nature habitat and not allow anyone close to the site. I have documented others in the area. So good luck with that!!!


The next is a quote by a girl named Tamara which I thoroughly agree with.
1''.misinformation campaigns such as this are intentionally started by anti-biblical ‘scholars’ and by governments worldwide, both of whom have a vested interest in keeping citizens diverted from the truth about our ancient past.
you’ll notice that this “hoax” was NOT perpetuated by a group who wished to prove that giants existed- rather, it was perpetuated and then distributed to prove that people are gullible, as if that has anything to do with the validity of the original claims. similar campaigns have made it difficult for scientists who are interested in ancient accounts regarding many subjects in addition to giants, including the flood, gods and angels, miracles, etc…
eventually, the truth will out.
giants have been excavated in many places throughout the world, and a disinformation campaign of faked photos does nothing to change that. giant remains have been found in texas, on the great lakes, in caves in the grand canyon, and many other places. many of these finds predated the industrial age and the internet, were covered in many publications, and are well documented.
why would our government and academia choose to cover up such finds? probably because many people would take a closer look at the religious accounts and notice the many similarities. once two and two are added together, four truths emerge:
1) ancient civilizations were visited by beings who were not human, interacted with them, and learned from them.
2) ancient civilizations were often tormented by beings (such as giants, who were hybrid humans, and this account is not only found in genesis as well as other religious texts, but is better understood when one reads ‘Enoch,’ a hebrew text that was part of the christian lexicon and accepted by the early church leaders.
3) the religious texts of every major religion in the world predict a catastrophic end to our current civilization.
4) if ancient peoples were visited and assisted by nonhumans, we could be similarly visited and assisted.

the result of our society coming to such conclusions would result in the decreased power of current institutions, including governments. and i think it is easy to see that our ‘scientists’ could not compare to the technological savvy of a being that could move 20 ton blocks several miles and build monolithic structures to absolute perfection.''

I'm going to be presenting more amazing evidence on the origins of Bigfoot. It is Biblical, so those of you who scoff at the Bible please stay away.

[sensesonfire]

Hi sapere aude, I apologise if I came across as a little blunt but I'm impassioned on these topics and your recent comment was very interesting.

[FM80]

The next is a quote by a girl named Tamara which I thoroughly agree with.

I am shocked you agree with her!!

1''.misinformation campaigns such as this are intentionally started by anti-biblical ‘scholars’ and by governments worldwide, both of whom have a vested interest in keeping citizens diverted from the truth about our ancient past.

Please explain the anti-biblical scholars bit. Once again the religious 'believers' think that all science does is try to prove the bible wrong. Why would they "have a vested interest in keeping citizens diverted from the truth about our ancient past"?

I'm going to be presenting more amazing evidence on the origins of Bigfoot. It is Biblical, so those of you who scoff at the Bible please stay away.

More? You haven't presented any yet. I think before you present any bible related myths (and definitely before you call it 'evidence') relating to yowie/bigfoot origins you should provide evidence of another bible myth that has explained something.

Also just wondering, do you think all of science is made up or just the stuff that contradicts your beliefs?

Another question... What's your opinion on the age of the earth and the universe (approx. 4.5 and 13 billion years respectively)? These figures continue to be refined but have been arrived at by independent study from many different scientific disciplines. Why so old? Surely if they made it up to prove the bible wrong they could have said 1 million years?

[sensesonfire]

Quote:



Also just wondering, do you think all of science is made up or just the stuff that contradicts your beliefs?

Another question... What's your opinion on the age of the earth and the universe (approx. 4.5 and 13 billion years respectively)? These figures continue to be refined but have been arrived at by independent study from many different scientific disciplines. Why so old? Surely if they made it up to prove the bible wrong they could have said 1 million years?

FM80
Quote:[' Also just wondering, do you think all of science is made up or just the stuff that contradicts your beliefs']. Answer : Of course science has its place but when dealing with subjects involving religion and perhaps an element of the supernatural they are silent and so they should be because they are dealing with a subject of which they have no explanation and is way out of their league.

Quote: [ Another question... What's your opinion on the age of the earth and the universe (approx. 4.5 and 13 billion years respectively)? These figures continue to be refined but have been arrived at by independent study from many different scientific disciplines. Why so old? Surely if they made it up to prove the bible wrong they could have said 1 million years''.] Answer : I have no idea when God created the earth and neither do scientists. Scientists big bang theory ( which constantly changes ) and its relativity to the age of the earth is a typical example of their ignorance going' hand in hand' with their arrogance. Unbelievable!, do you really expect that we should accept their answer as definitive when science can't even provide us with an accurate weather report a week in advance. You may deny it but there are many scientists world wide who are abandoning their scientific beliefs and accepting the intelligent design theory. And that is a fact - it doesn't need scientific proof.


I am preparing my Sasquatch/Bigfoot/ Yowie thesis all based on religious scripts; I have a lot of material to use so I'm narrowing it down to what I think is the most relevant . So FM 80 I would suggest you come up with a scientific thesis ( I'm waiting to hear one ) . It's much easier attacking my theories than actually coming up with a scientific explanation of your own ....... I suggest.

[FM80]

Of course science has its place but when dealing with subjects involving religion and perhaps an element of the supernatural they are silent and so they should be because they are dealing with a subject of which they have no explanation and is way out of their league.

You're right, there are some philosophical questions that science may not be able to answer. For example, it is doubtful that science will answer questions such as "What is the meaning of life?". Now you may find the answer in the bible if you like, that's fine, but I object to the bible being used as an account of the natural history of the earth, the universe and humankind. You have to realise that there are also limits on what can be gleaned from the bible.

I have no idea when God created the earth and neither do scientists. Scientists big bang theory ( which constantly changes ) and its relativity to the age of the earth is a typical example of their ignorance going' hand in hand' with their arrogance. Unbelievable!, do you really expect that we should accept their answer as definitive when science can't even provide us with an accurate weather report a week in advance. You may deny it but there are many scientists world wide who are abandoning their scientific beliefs and accepting the intelligent design theory. And that is a fact - it doesn't need scientific proof.

For starters, god didn't create the earth, and when you say that scientists don't know when it was created, well that's completely and utterly incorrect. Humans have investigated, studied and conducted experiments trying to determine how old the earth is and the result is roughly 4.5 billion years old. It's as simple as that.

Intelligent design. I'm sorry, but it's a joke. If scientists are accepting intelligent design (not out of the question, they're only human) then I guarantee you they are either religious, crazy or bad at what they do. Scientists don't have 'scientific beliefs', there is data and evidence.

As for the weather reports, science has enabled us to forecast the weather with great accuracy. The advances in radar and other equipment, through scientific endeavors, helps to forecast and predict major meteorological disasters which can save lives, perhaps science will save yours one day.

So FM 80 I would suggest you come up with a scientific thesis ( I'm waiting to hear one ) . It's much easier attacking my theories than actually coming up with a scientific explanation of your own

Any scientific theory at this stage would be a guess, there is too much unknown about the yowie to make any reasonable attempt to describe their origins. We can do that once we have more evidence, until then it's all speculation I'm afraid.

Look I'm not attacking your theories. If you want me to be totally honest, it saddens me that obviously intelligent people like yourself would deny yourself the true nature of reality. I don't think you're stupid for believing in what you do nor do I try to attack you personally, but yes I will attack your beliefs wholeheartedly because they are not good for you.

If the evidence and answers afforded by science contradicts your faith or beliefs, then the courageous thing to do is either find a way to accept both (which people like the pope do) or abandon your faith. Is a faith really that great if it forces you to ignore reality?

The best part of all of this is you can find out for yourself if you want, don't listen to me (I'm sure you weren't anyway!!), don't listen to the bible and don't listen to anyone else. All of the science on age of the earth, age of the universe, big bang theory and evolution is waiting for you. It's not hidden away or inaccessible, there are peer reviewed scientific papers on all of these things which have the methods and results of the experiments so you can see what has been done and how they did it.

This means that if you want to, you can replicate their methods and try to get a different answer to prove them wrong (which is what scientists do). Anyone can do this. How great is that!! If you think they are wrong, spend some time understanding some of the science and get involved!! Seriously, you can prove them wrong if you think you can. There is nothing stopping you.

Here are two links to two great videos. They both present terrific evidence (unfortunately not on bigfoot/yowies) which you can prove wrong if you like.

One is a 40 minute lecture by Dr Jerry Coyne explaining the evidence for evolution. There are things that will really make you think which is a good thing for us to do.

The other is by Lawrence Krauss on 'something from nothing'. He explains the way we know how old the universe is, where it possibly came from and where it's going, it's awesome stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqxCoibTtaI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjaGktVQdNg

[sensesonfire]

Sorry FM80, I cannot accept evolution under any accounts; as God said ''You cannot serve two masters''. On that occasion he was referring to man and money but it could also be applied to creation and evolution. I believe in God, and if you do believe in God you cannot leave Satan out of the equation. It's because of the highly sallacious nature of Satan that it's reasonable enough for me to believe he has left what many scientists would believe as great discoveries ( even pertaining to evolution) to vindicate his deceit and one of these deceptions, I believe, is Sasquatch/Yowie etc. We are coming from different ends of the spectrum here - believer and non believer- so we are going to have to agree to disagree; however this is a forum for religious beliefs to be discussed. I have never ventured away from this page to denounce someone else's opinion of Bigfoot - never would- even allowing for the fact that I believe the vast majority of them are true. So I'm going to produce some scriptural information on how I think these creatures came about. I'm sure atheists would not be interested,believers perhaps. So feel free to attack the info ( not my beliefs) but trying to convince me of evolution would be a waste of time.

[sensesonfire]

Hey Sensesonfire

Good post I think I have raised some similar points before in the Forum somewhere.

Hi Dion, just went back and read your posts regarding Fred Beck. You certainly had the jump on me, great read.

[sensesonfire]

Just some information I would like to add to my previous discussion about giants.


Going beyond the point of inept record keeping, some findings of the Smithsonian Institute were apparently so controversial, they allegedly even shipped them out into the middle of the Atlantic Ocean and threw them overboard!
In a private conversation with a well-known historical researcher (who shall remain nameless), I was told that a former employee of the Smithsonian, who was dismissed for defending the view of diffusionism in the Americas (i.e. the heresy that other ancient civilizations may have visited the shores of North and South America during the many millennia before Columbus), alleged that the Smithsonian at one time had actually taken a barge full of unusual artifacts out into the Atlantic and dumped them in the ocean.

Though the idea of the Smithsonian' covering up a valuable archaeological find is difficult to accept for some, there is, sadly, a great deal of evidence to suggest that the Smithsonian Institution has knowingly covered up and 'lost' important archaeological relics. The STONEWATCH NEWSLETTER of the Gungywamp Society in Connecticut, which researches megalithic sites in New England, had a curious story in their Winter 1992 issue about stone coffins discovered in 1892 in Alabama which were sent to the Smithsonian Institution and then 'lost'.13

Sadly, the stone coffins discovered in 1892 that vanished in the hands of the Smithsonian Institute are one example among countless other incidents of fossils, such as giant humanoid skeletons and unusual artifacts that simply don’t “fit” with our current history books, simply vanishing after being excavated and handed over to the Smithsonian Institute. While taking a position sympathetic to American Indians back in the 1880’s is a fully understandable reason for being biased toward a particular opinion, the reason for the Smithsonian Institute’s continued insistence in the Isolationism school of thought in the face of thousands of findings of solid evidence to the contrary, is a complete mystery.

But despite the great disservice to the global community the Smithsonian Institute has allegedly perpetrated by insisting history follow their particular dogma, all hope is not lost. Fortunately, the Smithsonian Institute isn’t the only organization in the world that has acquired the bones of giant humanoids. There is a museum in the world, (only ONE apparently), that has actual giant mummies on display, and this museum, (the Gold museum in Lima, Peru), is not affiliated with the Smithsonian Institute.

Glenn Kimball photographed the mummies of two of these giant men in Lima Peru in 1969. These giants are still in the gold museum in Lima Peru today and can be seen by anyone who visits. They were mummified because their golden robes are prominently on display. Their crowns could fit around Glenn’s waist. Their golden gloves have fingers ten inches long. Their mummies can be measured with a tape and they were both around nine and a half feet tall. There were other personal items fit for a giant king, that wouldn’t have been useful to a man of normal size. The actual bodies are there incased in glass for all to see. The news media has never photographed anyone nine and a half feet tall.

These were not mutations. A mutation is something that happens once in a “blue moon”. There were two giants in Peru side by side from successive generations. What makes the story even stranger is that the average height of the Peruvians, both now and historically, is well under six feet high. 14
John. W. Milor

[FM80]

Sorry FM80, I cannot accept evolution under any accounts; as God said ''You cannot serve two masters''. On that occasion he was referring to man and money but it could also be applied to creation and evolution. I believe in God, and if you do believe in God you cannot leave Satan out of the equation. It's because of the highly sallacious nature of Satan that it's reasonable enough for me to believe he has left what many scientists would believe as great discoveries ( even pertaining to evolution) to vindicate his deceit and one of these deceptions, I believe, is Sasquatch/Yowie etc. We are coming from different ends of the spectrum here - believer and non believer- so we are going to have to agree to disagree; however this is a forum for religious beliefs to be discussed. I have never ventured away from this page to denounce someone else's opinion of Bigfoot - never would- even allowing for the fact that I believe the vast majority of them are true. So I'm going to produce some scriptural information on how I think these creatures came about. I'm sure atheists would not be interested,believers perhaps. So feel free to attack the info ( not my beliefs) but trying to convince me of evolution would be a waste of time.

You don't need to apologise to me, you're only denying yourself the true appreciation, understanding and awe inspiring wonder that comes with knowing the truth about our world and universe. I truly hope that one day, like other creationists have, you accept reality. You don't have to believe in this or that, just accept reality.

I cannot accept evolution under any accounts; as God said ''You cannot serve two masters''. On that occasion he was referring to man and money but it could also be applied to creation and evolution

Yes you can accept evolution! The pope does, the church does! By accepting evolution you are not taking on a new set of beliefs, you're just accepting reality. It's like accepting the earth is round.

trying to convince me of evolution would be a waste of time

Truly depressing to read.
Your outlook on all of this is a truly frightening aspect of religion, far worse than anything your supposed 'satan' could conjure up.

[sensesonfire]

Sasquatch/Yowie/Bigfoot/Yeti.
My belief that the above and all sub species are hominid hybrids .My summation has come through scriptural text and as I have said before I am responsive to any opinions as to what these creatures are.
In the days preceding Noah the Nephilim descended to Earth, defying God and procreated with earthly women – not only women but animals – producing genetically altered hybrids. God has also said that in the end days the world will be as the days of Noah.
1.People seem to have forgotten war of Genesis 3:15. The bloodline from Eve to the birth Jesus had to be kept pure – uncorrupted genetically. In Genesis 6 the seed of the woman (mankind) had been corrupted genetically by the seed of the serpent (fallen angels) and therefore were hybrids, part human and part fallen angel. Therefore God was forced to preserve the last remaining uncorrupted humans (Noah and family) from extinction (and eternal loss)by destroying the seed of the serpent that was taking over the earth at that time. God’s Word shows other times that the seed of the serpent appears and was destroyed (Egypt and the Promised land for example). And the seed of the serpent will continue to seek to manifest until God puts an end to it at the Great White Throne Judgement of God.
2. genesis 6:
4 In those days, and for some time after, giant Nephilites lived on the earth, for whenever the sons of God had intercourse with women, they gave birth to children who became the heroes and famous warriors of ancient times…
The sons of god had intercourse with woman…so that means themen were altered by angels. This was in the days of noah…if the end times are going to be like the days of noah is this happening to us today and we don’t know or see it?

Have a look at the Sphinx – half man, half lion
1. Here’s what is says in the KJV: II Samuel 23:20

And Benaiah the son of Jehoiada, the son of a valiant man, of Kabzeel, who had done many acts, he slew two lionlike men of Moab: he went down also and slew a lion in the midst of a pit in time of snow:

This sentence follows several others, listing the exploits of David’s ‘mighty men’. Benaiah was the son of a priest (Jehoida), and he served as David’s chief body guard. What I want you to notice here is that he slew “two lionlike men”. As I read this morning, the word ‘lionlike’ caught my eye, so I decided to take a look at the original language.

The Hebrew word translated ‘lionlike’ is ariyel (אֲרִיאֵל), and its meaning is uncertain. According to Strong’s, it could mean ‘resembling a lion’ or ‘sons of Ariel’. Ariyel is actually the compound of two Hebrew words: ariy and el. Ariy means ‘lion’ or ‘image of a lion‘ and ‘el’ means ‘god’, ‘angel’, or even ‘demon‘.

Is it possible that what Benaiah actually killed were two genetically altered men? Do we have here an example of one of the ancient Nephilim with the appearance of a lion/man hybridization?
Check out The Lion Men of Moab – interesting. More reports of animal hybrid encounters below, wether true or not I don’t know – just reporting First is Dogman of Michigan second occurred in Paris in 1938.
1. The first known sighting of the Michigan Dogman occurred in 1887 in Wexford County, when two lumberjacks saw a creature whom they described as having a man's body and a dog's head.[7]
In 1938 in Paris, Michigan, Robert Fortney was attacked by five wild dogs and said that one of the five walked on two legs.[8] Reports of similar creatures also came from Allegan County in the 1950s, and in Manistee and Cross Village in 1967.[9]
3. ,Johnathan Downes a researcher claims to have interviewed a young man, whom he calls "Gavin", who encountered the Owlman in 1989, independently of Shiels. "Gavin" and his "girlfriend" claimed to have seen a creature "about five feet tall... The legs had high ankles and the feet were large and black with two huge 'toes' on the visible side. The creature was gray with brown and the eyes definitely glowed."[3]
1995[edit source | editbeta]
In 1995, a female tourist from Chicago wrote to the Western Morning News in Truro, claiming to have seen a "man-bird... with a ghastly face, a wide mouth, glowing eyes and pointed ears" as well as "clawed wings".[3]
Could these be examples of hybrids – Who knows?
So to Bigfoot : I can’t add much more to what I have already said regarding what these enigmatic creatures are but I would like to add some extra reading. 1. The Autobiography of Buffalo Bill (Colonel W.F.Cody) [ 1920 ]. References to Bigfoot.

1. http://texascryptidhunter.blogspot.com. ... gfoot.html
The other being from highly qualified and respected scientist Jeff Meldrum
2. 500 to 750 Worldwide Nephilim alive today

A leading scientist recently revealed during a lecture at Idaho State University that his research has led him to believe that not only does the creature known as Bigfoot, Sasquatch, Yeti, Skunk Ape, Yeren, (Nephilim) not only exists, but that a population of 500 – 750 is presently co-existing with mankind.


The scientist Jeff Meldrum has a lot of clout behind his name. He is a Associate Professor of Anatomy and Anthropology and Adjunct Associate Professor of the Department of Anthropology at Idaho State University. An Meldrum is an Adjunct Professor of Occupational and Physical Therapy and
Affiliate Curator of Vertebrate Paleon

How he comes to the assertion of between 500 – 750 I don’t know but maybe that explains why they are so hard to find.
Feel free to comment.

[sensesonfire]

I must add that I had a lot more on Nephilite hybrids particularly pertaining to the early Egyptians and their hybrid deities, also the Astecs, Incas and Maya and the ancient Greek hybrids but believe me the information was being erased as quick as I was typing it. All saved data was lost and I have been unable to recover it. Read into that what you will.

[FM80]

There's a fundamental problem. How can this be presented as 'evidence' when it comes from the same place as the noah story which is obviously untrue? Why would this story be true when the other clearly is not?

[sensesonfire]

There's a fundamental problem. How can this be presented as 'evidence' when it comes from the same place as the noah story which is obviously untrue? Why would this story be true when the other clearly is not?

Hey FM80, everytime I'm seeing your username I starting humming that Australian Crawl song'' Oh No, Not You Again''. If you haven't noticed this is a forum for religious debate away from the mainstream forums so maybe you would be better off on one of these as you have no religious beliefs at all. Other solution ......
You ignore my posts, I'll ignore yours.

[FM80]

Hey FM80, everytime I'm seeing your username I starting humming that Australian Crawl song'' Oh No, Not You Again''. If you haven't noticed this is a forum for religious debate away from the mainstream forums so maybe you would be better off on one of these as you have no religious beliefs at all. Other solution ......
You ignore my posts, I'll ignore yours.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm sure this forum is for "Controversial Conjecture and Debate', I haven't read anything saying this is a religious forum. Just because I don't have any religious beliefs doesn't mean I can't comment and debate in this forum and I'm sure you must have noticed that I'm one of not very many replying to your posts.

I'm not sure if you realise the level of respect I am showing you by replying to your posts, most people (of course I can't speak on behalf of everyone on this forum, but most people generally) don't even consider creationism worthy of discussion.

It is obvious that you have spent a lot of time and effort in preparing your case for the origin of yowie/bigfoot which is fantastic, but the way it works is that other people can comment on or question your theory to see if it holds water and this is what I'm trying to do.

Just looking at the scripture part of your case (the witness reports of owl men is another story), the first thing that must be examined is the reliability of your source. Before the details of whether the scripture might account for the origin of these creatures, we need to back up a bit, which brings me to the question I asked before.

If these passages come from the same text that describes the story of noah (using noah as one example here), how can you be sure that the passages you have highlighted are factual accounts of actual events? This needs to be addressed before the biblical passages you have presented are discussed as possible 'evidence' on the origin of yowie/bigfoot.

[sensesonfire]

[Quote] :Just looking at the scripture part of your case (the witness reports of owl men is another story), the first thing that must be examined is the reliability of your source. Before the details of whether the scripture might account for the origin of these creatures, we need to back up a bit, which brings me to the question I asked before.

If these passages come from the same text that describes the story of noah (using noah as one example here), how can you be sure that the passages you have highlighted are factual accounts of actual events? This needs to be addressed before the biblical passages you have presented are discussed as possible 'evidence' on the origin of yowie/bigfoot.

You did notice that I did say whether these were true or not I do not know. Your anti Biblical crusade is highly manifest when you refuse to afford noah a capital N.
Are you ever going to come up with anything on Bigfoot/yowie whether it be Primatology Paleontology, Anthropological , Archaeological, Biological or anything that may be scientifically logical to you or are we continuing to draw up a big blank; if so, just say you have no idea and remember science is in its infancy on this topic.

[FM80]

I've already stated that at this stage any scientific explanation would be speculation and I've already put forward the theory (not mine) that a descendant of Gigantpithecus blacki could have traveled to North America across a land bridge between Asia and North America that no longer exists. There is fossil evidence of G. blacki.

Asking you to demonstrate the reliability of your source of information is not an 'anti biblical crusade'. You've presented part of your case and like everyone else's, it should be subject to scrutiny to see how strong a case it is. I don't see a problem here.

Not sure what you mean by science is in it's infancy on this topic. Bigfoot? Well it would be a one - sided list if you were to compare the amount of species discovered and described by science and those discovered and described by the bible.


The point of this discussion is not that you've got a theory and I don't, it's all about the validity of your claims.

Anyway, is there an answer to my earlier question?

[sensesonfire]

I've already stated that at this stage any scientific explanation would be speculation and I've already put forward the theory (not mine) that a descendant of Gigantpithecus blacki could have traveled to North America across a land bridge between Asia and North America that no longer exists. There is fossil evidence of G. blacki.

Asking you to demonstrate the reliability of your source of information is not an 'anti biblical crusade'. You've presented part of your case and like everyone else's, it should be subject to scrutiny to see how strong a case it is. I don't see a problem here.

Not sure what you mean by science is in it's infancy on this topic. Bigfoot? Well it would be a one - sided list if you were to compare the amount of species discovered and described by science and those discovered and described by the bible.


The point of this discussion is not that you've got a theory and I don't, it's all about the validity of your claims.

Anyway, is there an answer to my earlier question?

FM80: If you look at all the headings and subheadings on this forum most are dealing with the unknown, paranormal/supernatural, all topics in which science appears to be at odds with. A lot of people have a theory of some sought - except science. You may have to accept that there are explanations that are closer to the truth than what science has to offer- although unproven. My understanding of science is that you do not make dismissive statements or statements of any kind unless you have proof to substantiate your claim. Let's face it science has had many many years to produce an explanation as to what Bigfoot/Yowie are and have until present, come up with nothing. I've heard the quote that science is in its infancy used by other members on the forum, I like to think it's a nice little euphemism for'' haven't a clue.'' I see you are a field researcher - into what exactly? no CV on Yowie/Bigfoot, glad you didn't have to sit for an exam on this topic. So I think it a little impertinent to dissect and dismiss other peoples theories if you don't have one of your own especially if it pertains to religion a topic on which you have a complete enmity too. Anyway, I've said what I have to say and am moving on; I'm sure other members have become tiresome of our science verses religion disputes.

[FM80]

Yeah, you're right, time to move on me thinks. It's been stimulating though!!

Final word though on your last post...... Science hasn't produced an explanation because science hasn't been looking, that's the problem, people like you and me have been looking.

There's nothing wrong with not knowing. This isn't a weakness, it shows that science doesn't throw it's hat in with any ridiculous theories just because it can't explain something. Saying 'I don't know' is far more honest and it leaves the door open for discoveries to be made, perhaps profound discoveries. If you want to fill that gap with bronze age mythology then good luck to you.

If I was to present a theory, I would hope others would do me the courtesy of critiquing it so it can be modified, or if it's really wrong, thrown out entirely. It's a great process, keeps us all honest!!

[wellymon]

Wow, thats a heated discussion about nothing really.

I just read the whole discussion and found it dis- hearting to find out the huge skeletons were photo shopped. Oh well.

Religion, well say no more, just don't come knocking at my door on a Saturday morning to waffle on about nothing.

Good input FM80.

[sensesonfire]

Haven't commented on the forum for months but have been attempting to read all comments on all threads; have read many but still many to go. I have found multiple comments supporting my theory to what Yowie/Bigfoot etc really is. As you know I'm not into the scientific B/S because there is none ( wish there was ). A,couple of posts from Dion;one from Yowie 88 and one from Brad in W.A. fully support my paranormal theories. Quotes below

Dean Harrison
Post subject: Re: psychic, paranormal yowies....PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:48 am
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I don’t believe there is any just cause for anyone to speak harshly, we’re all friends here and I hope it remains this way. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and mine just so happens to be based on my experience, yet have normally been reluctant to speak about publically and still don't feel very comfortable about it.

I have experienced certain unexplainable events, and 90% of our witnesses have also, which is a statistic ignorant to dismiss.

Not only do Humans experience this “Nameless Dread” which is well documented, but also animals.

When there is one in the area, not only do Humans and Animals become affected, but also insects. The entire area can be teaming with life, animals such as birds, wallabies, cane toads, cicadas, crickets and then within seconds everything changes. It becomes deathly quiet, not a creature stirs and there is an ungodly sensation in the air that is like ice. Goose bumps appear on your arms and the hair raises on the back of your neck.

Then it arrives, lurking in the bushes……..

Same is common in most reports where the witnesses tell of a feelings of being watched, a sensation of dread, a sudden feeling of vulnerability for no apparent reason. Then the sighting/encounter begins. Pets can also begin to behave strangely prior to activity.

Not endorsing this, however there are a lot of people who claim to have seen them vanish or have them walk around them with no form. I know two people who say they were forced off a cliff when being chased by ‘footsteps’ in the grass and they spent 3 weeks in Hospital. Yes that all sounds a little heavy to swallow, but it’s a common World Wide phenomena whether people like hearing it or not. A friend of mine had one walking around his car, but he couldn’t see it.

While on expedition we had something approximate estimate from the weight – 200kg on two feet, walk heavily all the way up a side of a hill to within 5m of us. When it arrived we turned on the spotlights, not a sound and there was nothing to be seen. I can’t explain that. It was an event that totally bewilders me. The last foot fell within milliseconds of pressing the button only a few metres from where we stood.


Why is there no physical evidence other than sightings, plaster casts and foliage damage? Having witnessed the speed and strength during some nights in the field, perhaps I can see why….. Far too large and powerful, with abilities beyond ours for us to bring one down. I doubt a normal gun would have stopped the one that chased me in Ormeau. The only aspect that I believe saved me was the fact that I had the head start to an open field and eventually a street light.

When he was stalking me, I at first thought it was a Human and paid little mind, in fact I was looking forward to some games, but then my body suddenly locked totally paralysed and I have unearthly chills all over my body that were not natural. It was at that point I knew there was something very wrong and certainly not normal.

When he was chasing me, it’s hard to explain unless you have experienced it, however the feelings being projected absorbed me. There was such anger.

If indeed they do have some form of psychic capacity greater than ours, they may have the ability to pick up on mind energy, thus the outcome of a study we conducted three years ago which concluded a very large percentage of people who have had encounters either had mental/physical pain or were doing something a little naughty at the time, thus heightening their mind energy. I know this also happened to me on a few occasions.

I know a lot of people that use mind energy to attract them, including Aboriginals.

Same in return, this mind energy (or whatever people would prefer to call it), if being far greater than ours, could, just could be, how they can project this Nameless Dread upon everything surrounding them, if they wish.

I recall (as some of you all may also), while on Expedition at Kilkivan. Myself, Brett Green, Mick Dale and Trevor were at base when an Elephant on two legs steamrolled through the forest smashing down tree’s on the other side of the creek. I asked the others to keep talking and act natural, while I go and get the footage. I was determined, very confident and feeling bullet proof.

I raced down the creek and quick as I could, extremely excited. The moment I stepped up onto that bank, I hit a wall of ice that not only shut ME down, but also every living animal around me also.

I was determined not to let it win, so I continued on step by step. I became nauseous, sweating, shaking, goose bumps, cold and hair on end. Every step I placed made me more and more ill until finally I dropped to the ground and couldn’t move. I evaluated myself throughly many times, and it was not a fear or sickness coming from with in. It was more like being somehow riddled with negative external energy like a force field (that’s the only way I can put it). I knew it was right there somewhere and the Dread was flowing through my veins.

It wasn’t until 4 minutes later I could begin to move. Right at that point all the animals and bugs became alive and definitelynoisy again. Now I could move again, I checked every tree, rock and hiding place, but it was gone. Without a sound. Something that large in dense dry foliage and dry leafy ground, to vanish without breaking a twig was extraordinary to say the least.

I do know that from my very own experiences at least, that there is most certainly an ability or as I have said, an energy, to them that we can’t quite explain and there is no ignoring or escaping it. It’s a World Wide trait that most researchers accept these days.

Always best to keep an open mind, after all, Yowies don’t exist either, right?
Dion Post subject: Re: Do you think yowies are flesh and blood or something els
Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:18 am







Dion Post subject: Re: Do you think yowies are flesh and blood or something els
Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:18 am


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Position: Paranormal and Cryptozoology Researcher It’s of no surprise to see that people will always lean to one or the other Flesh and Blood or Paranormal.

And as Neil has alluded to Paranormal just means “Beyond the range of normal experience or scientific explanation”.

There are plenty of things in this world that are “beyond the range of normal experience” and or “have no scientific explanation” and I put Yowies, Bigfoot, Sasquatch and Yeti and many others in the same boat.

In fact these critters worldwide act more like Ghost, Poltergeist and UFO activity that anything else, (I say that because we have no physical proof that they exist)

The ability to disappear to in front of people’s eyes into seemingly thin air after being pursued or shot at is real? And yes, there are cases where this has happened, there was a case that came in not too long ago where two guys saw a Yowie cross the rd in front of them in the car, both came to the conclusion that the Yowie seemed to disappear before it got to the tree line? Did they both hallucinate at the same time? Was it their eyes playing tricks on them? Maybe?

The ability to know your every move, Telepathy encounters? Which is another phenomenon that gets overlooked; the list of strangeness goes on and on.

I do not believe that these strange encounters are just people’s imaginations getting away with them or playing tricks on them. There are many people who come forward with the same stories. After a while you have to look at them or you can either become set in your ways and dismiss it.

Some people I believe are cherry picking selecting material and cases which support their belief system (such as Seemingly Flesh and Blood sightings or encounters) and ignoring any material that doesn`t. We all have different encounters and or opinions there is nothing wrong with that. There is absolutely no positive proof that they are “purely” Flesh and Blood. It’s my belief that they are a bit of both, Flesh and Blood and Paranormal.

I mean really who can say they have a body of one, How do we get thousands upon thousands of sightings and encounters world-wide, yet still no Physical body has ever been found, with all the man power of the world exploring each and every corner of the earth nothing has ever been discovered, only a few fleeting glimpses of the creatures which get reported as a sighting or encounter and so the stories build up, to think that a huge “animal” (as people in the states like to call it) sometimes up to 12 ft high can evade man for so long is ridiculous.

Tell me why we get 2,3,4,5,6 and even 7 toed prints, none of which look categorically ever the same? Some Prints I have seen that people claim to have come from a Yowie look so deformed I wonder how they come to the conclusion that they are Yowie, who saw the Yowie make them?

Tell me why they evade the camera like the plague yet they can run right up to a recorder sitting in the bush and make a racket of a noise? , for an animal they are highly intelligent to be able to discern the difference between the two.

I quite often hear people in the United States talk about Sasquatch and where do they go when its winter and snowing, some say they go underground into caves, the fact of the matter is why has no one ever found these caves? in some areas where sasquatch is found they don’t even have caves so where do they go? They don’t make igloos.

There are many 4’s and against for both parties of Flesh and Blood and Paranormal, I think they are a bit of both, an ability to shift in and out of Dimensions.

It’s only an opinion, after all we are dealing with a mythical creature that doesn’t exist, right……….?

_________________
There is a Yeti in the back of everyone’s mind; only the blessed are not haunted by it. ~ old sherpa saying

User formally known as chewy


Yowie 88 Quote:

“It was no more than 3 feet high, solid b ong arms and a body covered with dark brown hair uild with l with a tinge of red”. He noticed the face, as being that of a man with a flatten nose, but could not make out the neck. “What was freaky were the eyes, dark olive in colour and when it briefly stared at me it gave me the sense it was very old and wise”

“We could not understand how it simply runs behind a rock or a tree then simply vanishes from site”. The strange creatures appeared to be playing hide & seek with the men, mocking them as they could not keep up. One of the members noticed strange smells, and an oddly silence about the place too at times. And back at camp, they were playing havoc with our food; “they were like little cheeky monkeys in those Asian countries stealing food”.


Brad.
Location: Wandering W.A.
Event: Strange Yowie Encounter
Date: August 27th, 2012.

The weirdest thing is how it just disappeared into thin air. My mate even said ''it was like it disappeared before it even hit the tree line". I can understand this sounds strange, but it's true as I thought the same thing. The crazy thing is there was nothing to hide in. There was only one line of trees both sides of the road then open paddock.


I agree with what Dean has said that he thinks Yowie/Bigfoot are both physical and spiritual (paranormal) creatures with the ability to shift in and out of dimensions. With Yowie 88 and Brads observations that the Yowie was virtually able to disappear before their very eyes adds to the supernatural theory. As I continue reading the posts I no doubt will discover many more with similar beliefs.