yowie/ the ultimate bushman

[Searcher]

At last… rare praise to Scarts for his comprehensive list of the case for a living Yowie/Bigfoot/Yeti!

Perhaps it was good enough top convince him to come across to the F&B side? Now why do I doubt that… Anyway, I look forward to the list of paranormal pros. Judging by the boasts in previous posts, I expect to see at least 101 reasons.

IMHO, it would take Dan Akroyd and the GHOSTBUSTERS gang to capture any real evidence for proponents of the supernatural. And that’s why it's very unlikely to happen.

[wellymon]

Classic "ass hat", Gold, I have never seen a hat made to look like an "Ass".
That is good because for sure as hell "Scarts" I would not wear it.........But like yourself.....

I'm beginning to get the big picture here from previous episodes, threads, posts and documents........

I have PM Dean himself a few weeks ago and I'm sure Dion you have read it...?
Did I get a reply no, NO, not at all, thanks heaps So you guys don't really care at all, its all a hoax, for some reason. WHY...?

Hey I'm only some guy on this forum here, who has an input and through my investigations to be positive that the "Hairy One" is the ultimate bushman/bush woman....I do believe, have heard and have various photos that conclude in my eyes it is true. So there "Scarts" living in your apartment on the 27th floor in the city sitting in your armchair tapping away, who has never been out in the bush since your first little paranormal realm...?
How can you say Dion that UFO's who don't frequent Earth as much as living here for the last so many millions of years , like the ultimate bush dweller...? That has me stumped, that is why they actually get seen...?

Sorry for being so abrupt but that is what you get with Welly, I'm no where near as literterate as yourselves but hey, I hope you understand.

I have other photos that have been taken, but yet to share here as of ridicule and the likes.

All I would like to see is positiveness not negativeness, which is what I read at the moment....?

Carry on back to the non F&B thread, good luck last post

[Dion]

I have PM Dean himself a few weeks ago and I'm sure Dion you have read it...?
Did I get a reply no, NO, not at all, thanks heaps So you guys don't really care at all, its all a hoax, for some reason. WHY...?

Hey Welly as I have said previously Dean rarely reads his PM's, I warned you that he wouldnt and said to you to perhaps send him an email, and NO I havent seen your PM.

[andrew]

You are doing exactly what I did. Just like those photos, there is no version of this where that DNA study once and for all confirms the flesh and blood existence of a Sasquatch.

I can assure you that I am not doing exactly what you did. I take the time to investigate verifiable evidence thoroughly. The only part of the DNA to be re-analysed is the nuclear. The mitochondrial DNA is quite clear, as previously explained. It seems that abnegation is alive and well. I have decided that I have better things to do with my life than talk to those with their ears covered. If you don't understand or want to understand the science, the methodology and what constitutes good evidence then that is your loss. This current series of posts was basically my first since the Green Hoax began but they are my last forever. I have nothing but the highest respect for some friends and posters here but there is a subjective and escalating irrational trend which seems to be contagious. I am leaving AYR for good. Thanks for the experience.

Scarts,
As for your claim " Don't forget I was directly involved with locating and verifying where those photos were stolen from and was involved when they were finally inevitably declared a hoax."

Notwithstanding the years of enquires by Dean, it is quite clear that the credit for the proof of the hoax is due to Gary Opit who was the FIRST to discover the 'smoking gun' evidence. I prefer to give credit where it is truly due and not to those who claim kudos by osmosis. In Gary's own words in August 2013:

"I had bought Brett’s book with the two published photos & very much enjoyed ready the reports of yowie & junjadee that he had collected. I thought that the face could have been genuine though I had a bit of trouble with the fact that the skull top was not more domed as usually described & I thought it unlikely that anyone could actually photograph a yowie in bright sunlight as the animal is supposed to be primarily nocturnal but I reserved judgment. Also the photo (divided into 3 photos in the book) showing two individuals walking across a rocky landscape was perplexing. The landscape itself was inconsistent with the geology of the locality where the photos were said to have been taken. In fact I had never observed such a landscape on this continent. I did not recognise the plants and the rocks looked very rough, as if it was a limestone geology. Our rocks & landscapes are very ancient, weather-worn, eroded, smooth & rounded. The hominins themselves were very slim animals & I thought it unlikely that one would have been able to take such photos of yowies walking in daylight in the open without them being aware of the photographer. However, there is always the chance of being in the right place at the right time & thought it unlikely that Brett would be foolish enough to publish fraudulent photos. I decided to wait until Brett published the next set of photos that were said to be of a family group with young.

A couple of weeks or more ago Dean showed me prints of the photos at lunch. One was of two males from behind & the other of a family group. I thought that the hominins portrayed looked much more primitive than say Homo erectus, more like Australopithecus, because of the extremely long forearms & the very small skulls. So I began examining all my books & on-line photos of Australopithecus & asked a colleague to also undertake a search of material on Australopithecus. I thought that the animals in the photos were definitely Australopithecus gracilis and that it would be very unlikely that had survived to the present and to have reached this continent. We finally found a documentary on Australopithecus gracilis on the internet called “Walking with Beasts - next of kin”, one that did not use actors dressed in hairy outfits, that we had seen on TV years ago, and we found the images on the video to be identical to the photos that Brett said that he had taken.

So I emailed Dean with the news that Brett had hoaxed all the photos and that he could view them for himself on the internet. I did not bother watching the entire video but alerted Dean to the fact that he could see the photo of the family group at 8:19 minutes at; and at around 9:31 are the shots taken from behind of the two fighting individuals with the male with his arms raised. I thought that it was most likely that the 2 photos that Brett published in his book would also be in the same video as it was then obvious that they were also computer animations from the same documentary. I believe that Steve is a friend of Dean & after Dean alerted his group to the existence of the documentary video, Steve no doubt watched it & eventually found the other 2 photos.”

[Dean Harrison]

I briefly skimmed through Andrew's Post and have not read above the top two. Apparently I have a PM, which I thought most people knew I never venture to.

This is a huge story that pretty much buries Brett Green and anything he has claimed in the past, sadly. I say sadly, because I truly thought a lot of the man in years past. His stories were larger than life, and evidently the facts never came between a good story and therefore the stories were TRULY larger than life! Real life anyway…

I/we/many found numerous holes in the Yowie Photo story. We kept digging and asking relentless questions which were never met with reasonable responses. We asked to meet with certain individuals who were involved at the time, requested negatives of the photos and wished for a meeting with his Lawyer after the claims of the confiscation of data by a Fed Dept. We were declined each and every time. He had an answer for everything.

Although it smelt to high heaven, and nothing made sense, because we thought we knew him, we kept at it and with him, hoping he would finally provide the proof.

I met up with Gary for lunch at Broadbeach and brought the Photo's along. We had a long talk about them, matters surrounding them, at the end he had taken photos of the images and within two or three days came up with the answers. Full Credit to Gary. Then a few days later, Scarts found additional footage.

We were working on it in all directions, prior. Networked with Gary and he found the answer.
Without Gary, it would have taken a lot longer – or no conclusion yet.

At the end of the day, I am happy he was exposed. However here is the kicker, he now claims the photos were swapped and he didn’t realise. …
Of course. Yet another convenient answer, to add to his chest of lies.


DMH

[Dion]

Seems as though the people who believe them to be F&B are abandoning this debate shame really goes to show they have no answers in the debate whatsoever for them being F&B.

Seeing as a few others and I are outnumbered here by F&B let’s say 80% to 20% believers to the Para, if that, you would think that someone who believes in the F&B would have a kind of an answer?

Yes there is no proof of the Paranormal but there is also no proof of them being F&B which some wish to ignore, and just poo poo the rest for the sake of it not adhering to some kind of scientific analysis.

After all it’s only a discussion, there is no proof I am right or wrong as the same can be said for a F&B approach.

[Scarts]

Andrew. Myself, Tony Healy, Dean Harrison, and paul Cropper, were already fishing through old movies and documentaries in an attempt to match the photos or negative that they came from a production. Gary Opit got there first in a documentary none of us had even heard of. Yes, full credit to Gary. I simply matched the correct frames perfectly with the photos. My match-ups conclusively proved the hoax to everybody's satisfaction. If I didn't do it, someone else would have in time. It was a bitter sweet victory for all involved and there's more to the story that for privacy reasons, will not be disclosed. Thank-you Dean for conveying more of the complexities involved in that matter.

I wrote, "You are doing exactly what I did. Just like those photos, there is no version of this where that DNA study once and for all confirms the flesh and blood existence of a Sasquatch."

While I maintain you are doing exactly as I did, even though you may not be able to see it right now, my last statement was certainly arrogant, but in all fairness, no less arrogant than those who have reiterated the yowie is the ultimate bushman.

Regarding that list of positives for the F&B argument, I'm curious as to whether anybody has anymore they would like to add, or they think any of the points I included shouldn't be there?

[Dion]

The below quote was posted to a Facebook page in response to another quote, I have had permission by the person who wrote it to post it here, thought it was relevant.

Sorry ***** and others on this site, I promise my final rant on this subject... I just feel it is an important issue not to dive into a little further. Please if you are sick of following the para, f&b argument then don`t waste your time reading any further because this is my own personal gibberish rant.

Firstly, I would have to disagree with no evidence of the paranormal.... on the contrary there is huge amounts – brief examples.... in ghost-hauntings research EVPs, video, 3D scaling, thermal, EMF, documentation of moving objects, physical markings,.... and on and on.... this is all repeatable, and accumulative as countless paranormal groups go to the same locations, getting the same types of evidence day in and day out...

Bigfoot/Yowie well obviously you guys are aware of what we have (and don`t have) to offer.

Reincarnation/NDEs..... huge bodies of work... extraordinarily compelling data all casually dismissed with ridiculous explanations..... Time after time there are reincarnation cases where there is amazing detailed information which takes researchers an enormous amount of effort to verify. Then they will ask the token sceptic his opinion and he`ll say well obviously they read the information in a book when they were a child and brought it up from their subconscious through hypnosis.... the only problem being that this information was only available under lock and key in local historical records....in things like wedding, birth, property registries.... Oh, oh OK,.... well it is all a hoax.... all these people are hoaxing and fabricating!!!!!

Tell me, where is the critical thinking, logical reasoning from such ridiculous explanations that these people come up with. Honestly, they do not deserve their positions in academia!

NDE research... wow such a huge field.... all I can say is go to the Skeptico site for a zillion links and resources... I`m not gonna even start there.

UFOs, we have a zillion photographs, videos, landing trace case studies, implant removals, radar-visuals, DNA studies (ref. Bill Chalkers Hair of the Alien) testimony from high ranking military members, scientists, astronomers and on and on.

Evidence abounds everywhere, the smart question for me is not ‘where is the evidence’; but ‘why does the scientific community refuse to investigate the evidence presented’...... For those who think that science is an objective pursuit of the truth I just don`t see that reflected in reality.

***** I support the scientific process (and having spoke to Dion I`m sure he is in the same boat), what annoys me about the scientific community is they only apply those rigorous processes to conventional subject matter.... when it comes to so-called 'out there' claims or those of the 'paranormal' all scientific objectivity is lost and casual dismissals; jokes and illogical thinking come to the fore...... it seems to me current science is more about maintaining status quo belief systems then objective pursuits of the truth. Can someone tell me, despite thousands of yowie reports that have been accumulated over the years, many of those from respectable, credentialed individuals, truck loads of secondary evidence, there has been no official scientific study, report, or journal article from a recognised Australian scientific body...... same, same for North America [excluding Melba`s DNA study]!

Which leads me to another point.... the scientific community will never acknowledge the DNA work conducted by Ketchum and others simply on the basis of the subject matter.... It has nothing to do with science and everything to do with psychology. Even in the highly unlikely event that they were to do acknowledge it, they would simply raise the bar to another level.... OK you have some compelling DNA evidence there but where is our body..... Ultimately that is where it is always going to lead back to. NO BODY!!!

Another point I wanted to mention is the difficult nature of scientifically documenting such phenomena, lets for a moment speculate (as many have) that much, or some of this paranormal phenomena is dimensional in nature.... then how does one measure, quantitate, qualitate, replicate, accumulate and control that data for scientific digestability. If photographs, recordings, radar tracings, EVPs etc ect which have recorded unconventional data aren`t good enough then what the funk is? Unfortunately no one has invented a dimensional regulator yet.... lol. To me it is like trying to definitively prove the existence of viruses without a microscope; the existence of extrasolar planets without a telescope??? You cannot... but you can logically theorise (as others did with germ theory, as early astronomers did with the sun, moon and planets) based on indirect or secondary accumulations of data and/or in particular, with the paranormal phenomena, on the overwhelming multitude of ANECDOTAL ACCOUNTS. To me, that is what it comes down to.... the anecdotal accounts and supporting data seem to be highly suggestive that much of the phenomena under the umbrella of ‘paranormal’ is very real yet beyond our current scientific understanding..... Point being, to dismiss such theories and/or possibilities, in my opinion, is a little arrogant and somewhat foolish!

I think for those of us involved in the paranormal field it is a no-win outcome, obviously that includes us hairy people chasers - whether we believe they are para or F&B it doesn`t really matter. At the end of the day I think we will go to our graves still questioning, still frustrated.

However, not wanting to be all doom and gloom i feel in the long term future we will make a breakthrough, it is only a matter of time really before science/technology advances make it impossible for these beings (whatever they are) to evade us any longer. Unfortunately, probably not in our lifetime.... sorry to be the short-term pessimist sports fans but that is my current feelings on this whole shabang! Hopefully, I`m way of the mark! Gibberish rant over! Lol

[BushFreak]

whether we believe they are para or F&B it doesn't really matter.

What is quoted above is the crux for me. Nothing else matters except for what "I" believe them to be.

Now getting back to the original post,

Hi all, I read about why there's no bones found, why do they smell so bad, how can they vanish so easily, ect. Is it because they are the ultimate bushman?.. They make them selves smell to ward off insects, ticks, confuse pray?. They bury there dead, no bones?, they can vanish due to expert stealth abilities?. They can track you, have a think how good a aboriginal is at tracking, surviving in the bush. I think the yowie is intelligent enough also. Special forces, bushmen ect can hide very well but yowies live there life like this, its in there genes!, no wonder there hard to find!!. Thats my thinking anyway.

Yes I do believe them to be very good users of there environment.

[Ryz]

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/inspiringf ... 07-08-2014

I don't want to really weigh into the F&B vs Para debate, but this stuff is pretty freaky. Who knows if it actually is happening though.

[Dion]

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/inspiringf ... 07-08-2014

I don't want to really weigh into the F&B vs Para debate, but this stuff is pretty freaky. Who knows if it actually is happening though.

Hey Ryz

Can you go into a bit of detail of whats on the audio without me having to listen to the whole thing.

Regards

[Ryz]

The audio contains a lot of experiences that the sasquatch ontario bloke has experienced, which would definitely be classed as paranormal. Unfortunately, there's no real conclusive evidence other than his word.

Things such as:
- he finds footprints in the snow that lead no where, the tracks simply stop. There's even times when he says that only 1 footprint has been left ad there are no others around.
- he has apparently collected 200+ marbles as "gifts". The weird part is that sometimes they appear in his car or bags when he's not at the habituation site.
- he's left a camera out for them and they've learned to operate it, but when he downloads the photos they don't make sense. ie the time stamp shows 3AM but the photo shows a daylight forest.
- "converstations" with whatever it is recorded on a voice recorder with the recorder placed about 2m in front of him, yet when they listen back to it it sounds as if the reply voice is closer to the recorder than 2m, ie the voice is eminating from an invisible source in between the voice recorder and him.
- fleeting glimpses of various things not entirely sasquatch related.

Generally pretty freaky stuff. Personally I have trouble believing this sort of stuff, however there are enough stories out there with a similar vein that do make me wonder.

[Dion]

Thanks Ryz

I have heard a lot of that kind of stuff before,

Except for the Marbles appearing in various places, at least he is not losing them lol.

Cheers