Puzzled, perplexed and maybe a little lost?

[Cricket]

Hi

This is the first time I've ever commented on a post after a long time of reading. I have always been interested in yowies/ghosts/UFOs etc and have always been on the fence if I believe they exist. After reading a lot of posts here I really want to believe they exist but still part of me thinks this can't be...

In regard to yowies hiding however I will give you an example of creatures hiding... I am an avid bushwalker/runner. Where I live there are many bush trails that are fire trails and I often walk them. I do not think that there are any yowies here but in terms of animals hiding there is a very large steer that roams this area that despite my efforts I can never find. On one walk I saw him a few hundred metres away on a trail and ran to try to find him..within the few minutes it took to get to where I had seen him he had disappeared... I looked everywhere..this was a fairly open patch of bush trail also... If a steer can disappear and he is huge and not even hiding I am sure a yowie wouldn't have much difficulty not being seen. I know this steer is here and I look for him every walk I do but have not come across him yet and this is only less than 100 acres of fenced bush...if a yowie is hiding from people on much larger areas of land I doubt they would find it hard to not be seen.

[thehairyone]

Hi Cricket … welcome to the asylum .. when asked I liken them to cattle in the bush , a lot of people say , as you said, theres cows or horses
around but they are never seen , I say stand a cow on its hind legs and the size would be roughly the same if you cant see the cow ( whose not the smartest animal on the planet ) how do you expect to see a solitary animal who is not only bush smart but doesnt want to be seen .
I too have been on a bush track and heard a large animal only a cpl of metres away and havnt seen anything , i was on a small island where i know deer are present so im assuming that it was a deer
Cheers Greg

[gregvalentine]

I do not think that there are any yowies here but in terms of animals hiding there is a very large steer that roams this area that despite my efforts I can never find. On one walk I saw him a few hundred metres away on a trail and ran to try to find him..within the few minutes it took to get to where I had seen him he had disappeared... I looked everywhere..this was a fairly open patch of bush trail also... If a steer can disappear and he is huge and not even hiding I am sure a yowie wouldn't have much difficulty not being seen. I know this steer is here and I look for him every walk I do but have not come across him yet and this is only less than 100 acres of fenced bush...if a yowie is hiding from people on much larger areas of land I doubt they would find it hard to not be seen.

Sounds like it's been giving you a bum steer . . .

[Cricket]

Hahaha

But it does amaze me if a cow can disappear and it wasn't even running it was just slowly walking then bam gone I'm sure it wouldn't take a yowie much to hide...

Most of the time I go for walks I feel nothing at all. I feel safe not a care in the world. There was one trail that I'd been on (before I even thought of yowies) that on the odd occasion I'd feel like something was off.. like the air felt thick and that i was worried that if something was to come for me I'd not be able to get away (I wasn't even walking alone) I didn't see or hear anything but had this funny feeling was dead quiet... It was out back of Ormeau near the quarry and I'd done that trail before and felt ok.. I was jumping at everything...next minute saw this grey thing coming straight for me down centre of the trail... Was a kangaroo but omg I almost died ha after that felt a bit strange for a bit then the tension left and walked calmly to the car. It was the only trail I have ever done that I felt something funny about

[Arjy]

Hide and seek Champions of the world .

[Mad Academic]

As a retired biologist (who happens to believe that a bush-ape not only survives, but reproduces, in Australia), I take exception to those who paint ALL biologists with the "can't exist" brush. All we are saying...all we have ever said is: "show us the evidence". That's it.
I agree with everyone that evidence (other than eyewitness reports; sincere though they may be) is hard to come by, but I believe it will come.

Hi Mad, it’s interesting that you have a scientific background but also hold a belief that this creature exists. Do you base your belief on personal experience or the largely anecdotal evidence of others?

Genuine question btw, just an interesting dichotomy between science and belief

Hi Tim,
Thanks for your genuine question...and it's one I wrestle with myself.
As for the "scientific background", yes I have a PhD in biochemistry.
No; I have never had an "encounter" with a Bush Ape/Yowie creature.
My belief is based simply on the belief that:
1) It's not impossible...we know large primates existed in the past from fossil records.
2) Sheer weight of sightings...surely not 100% of all reports could be mistaken/false claims/mental illness? (At least, in Australia, we don't have bears to confuse witnesses.) Then there is the occasional footprint cast or photo or video. Again; would they ALL be faked? I tend to think not, and I respect people who come forward to tell their stories.
Of course, the phenomenon is not limited to Australia, as there are analogous creatures (supposedly) in North America and Russia (where I am at the moment) and other countries as well. Does "mass hysteria" occur over such a wide area and across all languages and beliefs? I don't believe so.
My curiosity is also piqued not only by where the reports are from , but where they are NOT from.
For example, we might expect reports to emanate from areas of wilderness and scrub (not from cities) and this is just what we get. And yet, some of the thickest forest and lowest human influence is found in Tasmania...and we don't have a single genuine, verified sighting from there! Why not? Did they not manage to cross Bass Strait? Or maybe they did but were killed by the Aboriginals? Who knows?
Surely, if the "creature" was some "parapsychological" pan-dimensional being that can cause humans to panic by it's thought-waves then it should appear equally in all places, shouldn't it? But it doesn't.
I just don't buy the "parapsychology" balony. There are simpler explanations.

Cheers

Mad Academic

[Rusty2]

Hey Mad Academic , there was a woman on here years ago which I believe was having visits by a yowie in Tasmania .
http://www.yowiehunters.net/viewtopic.p ... nia#p18542

There was a report in Outdoor Australia magazine .
http://www.yowiehunters.net/viewtopic.p ... ania#p5053

I've also talked with a guy from Tasmania that does hiking tours who had an unusual experience which scared the pants off him and his wife . A large branch was broken within close proximity and they both instantly got that "get out of here" feeling and left immediately .

There was also one report of first settlers constructing a new home . Upon returning the next day to continue construction they found the home destroyed . The Aboriginal people told them it was the Dooligah but it was blamed on the Aboriginal people anyway .

Not many reports but you would think that there was something there from what has been reported .

[Mad Academic]

Hey Mad Academic , there was a woman on here years ago which I believe was having visits by a yowie in Tasmania .
http://www.yowiehunters.net/viewtopic.p ... nia#p18542

There was a report in Outdoor Australia magazine .
http://www.yowiehunters.net/viewtopic.p ... ania#p5053

I've also talked with a guy from Tasmania that does hiking tours who had an unusual experience which scared the pants off him and his wife . A large branch was broken within close proximity and they both instantly got that "get out of here" feeling and left immediately .

There was also one report of first settlers constructing a new home . Upon returning the next day to continue construction they found the home destroyed . The Aboriginal people told them it was the Dooligah but it was blamed on the Aboriginal people anyway .

Not many reports but you would think that there was something there from what has been reported .

Oh Rusty PULEEZE!
The woman did NOT see a "yowie". She saw a pair of eyes reflecting light. For God's sake it could have been anything. Also, she has a house 100 METRES long!?! She stated it twice, otherwise I might have thought a typo. Does that sound credible to you?
As for the other "sightings"...a man and a woman hear a branch break! LOL. Hold on! I'll alert the media! Again; they did NOT see a "Yowie".
Oh and one report from 1898...a tall hairy thing. God; that describes most of the men living in Tasmania.
No, you'll have to do better than that Rusty.
And, BTW; if you believe those "reports" then I'm worried because seriously, you'd believe anything.

[Black]

Mad Academic, which mad theory do you subscribe to?

[Rusty2]

WOW , sorry for expressing an opinion contrary to your beliefs .

[sensesonfire]

Surely, if the "creature" was some "parapsychological" pan-dimensional being that can cause humans to panic by it's thought-waves then it should appear equally in all places, shouldn't it? But it doesn't.
I just don't buy the "parapsychology" balony. There are simpler explanations.

Cheers

Mad Academic
[/quote]

Mad Academic, These creatures may not appear simultaneously all around the world it's definitely not omnipresent but apparently, they are found on every continent except Antarctica. They are even making appearances in countries like the United Kingdom and New Zealand and their numbers are increasing If you're searching purely for a scientific explanation you are going to be sadly disappointed.

[Mad Academic]

WOW , sorry for expressing an opinion contrary to your beliefs .

No. You're embarassed because you feel foolish for believing people encountered "Yowies" when there is not a shed of evidence for it.

[Mad Academic]

Surely, if the "creature" was some "parapsychological" pan-dimensional being that can cause humans to panic by it's thought-waves then it should appear equally in all places, shouldn't it? But it doesn't.
I just don't buy the "parapsychology" balony. There are simpler explanations.

Cheers

Mad Academic

Mad Academic, These creatures may not appear simultaneously all around the world it's definitely not omnipresent but apparently, they are found on every continent except Antarctica. They are even making appearances in countries like the United Kingdom and New Zealand and their numbers are increasing If you're searching purely for a scientific explanation you are going to be sadly disappointed.
[/quote]

The key word in your paragraph above is the word "apparently".
I take this to be interpreted as "well, there's no evidence for it but that's what people say".
So why aren't they (apparently) found on Antarctica? I mean, if they exist in the Twilight Zone or they are "non-physical" or parapsychological or whatever wishy-washy term you want to use, why would a bit of snow and ice stop them? Why wouldn't they appear in Central Park, New York? Or Gorky Park, Moscow?
You are the one making extreme claims. Extreme claims require extreme evidence, IMO.
So far, I see none.

[sensesonfire]

Okay, I'll erase the word apparently and supplement with have been seen on every continent. Mad Academic you're very brave trying to argue on the scientific level because there is no logical evidence to go by. My understanding and a lot of others it's paranormal 7, science 0.

[Black]

So, what's your academic explanation, mad academic?

Enlighten us all with your academic genius and insights!

[Mad Academic]

So, what's your academic explanation, mad academic?

Enlighten us all with your academic genius and insights!

You don't have to have a PhD to realise that it's quite possible that a breeding population of large primates exists.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, we KNOW they have existed in the past. Fossil records are pretty hard to wish away. (Oh and BTW, ghosts don't leave fossil remains.) Perhaps they spread out across the globe and have changed slightly to adapt to local climates. Perhaps more than one species exists. I know the native people of Australia believe there are more than one type. They also believe they are physical..."hairy men"....or a "different race". But perhaps some of the more arrogant commentators here would presume to tell the Aboriginals they have it all wrong. Just don't know the "facts". LOL

So it's not a great stretch of the imagination for me to believe that a couple of species might exist on different continents (no; not Antarctica!). Say Australia, USA, Eurasia at least. They have enough food and enough places to breed.
To me, that's a far more believable explanation than the vacuous expression of "it's paranormal 7, science 0" (whatever that means....)

[Black]

Ok. So that's your position, Mad Academic.

Your position is the yowie and bigfoot are world champions at hide and seek!

So, where are they hiding, Mad Academic? Where might a human being find them?

You declare there is no paranormal or psychological element at play, so how does the yowie and bigfoot physically elude all of humanity?

We all want to know, so hit us with it. Where are they, or how do they do it?

[rowbe]

I have been viewing this thread with interest. Although there is numerous points of information in support for both of the major camps (e.g., paranormal or physical embodiment) looking into the “hairyman” phenomena, there is seemingly no real (published) evidence for either (as we are all aware). I remain open and feel excited by the possibilities. For example:

Physical: Obviously, if they are real they are masters of their environment and can remain hidden and usually unseen – given, they have had many, many years to perfect this. Plus we have lost most of these skills and we would be the only threat to their species (over and above environmental changes – which we probably would cause). Physical evidence includes – nesting beds, tepees, broken branches, rock stacks, and sticks rammed into the ground, not to mention the many sightings. For most this would be the most feasible explanation.

Paranormal: But how can we explain those who have had paranormal encounters, such as invisibility/disappearance, sounds (e.g., running, footsteps, vocalisations, etc) with no physical presence, physical image gliding (not walking), people being touched but nothing is there, etc. Some of this “evidence” has also been experienced by respected members of this forum. Are they a paranormal remnant of the past – “ghosts” if you will – however, does not explain much of the physical evidence (e.g., why would a ghost need sleep). They have been on Earth a long time, maybe they have perfected an ability to move between dimensions – difficult to come to terms with this considering their primitive life and fear of fire.

I was given a photo of an image that was not there to the naked eye. It is very “ghostly” looking but a pronounced head and upper torso, albeit no detail evident. When enlarging and adjusting the image you can make out a definite figure. Interestingly, the figure has a small head and very wide shoulders (but pixel distortion makes it difficult to make out detail). The photo was also taken in an area where habituation of some hairymen is currently being undertaken. Now I can’t post the pics (before and after) because they were given to me and I would not like to post without permission from the owner – who is also a member of this forum – not yet anyway. Could be paranormal but could also be camouflage – if it is a hairyman that is.

Food for thought – there are creatures on this planet that have an ability (i.e., chemical or infrawaves) to camouflage themselves for hunting purposes. Maybe the hairies have this ability – I have thought that maybe the bad odour given off by them at sightings is a chemical exuded to make themselves invisible but present – just a thought. Maybe it doesn’t work on all of us – as we know our genetic (DNA) make-up can be quite different.

Just my thoughts!

[sensesonfire]

So, what's your academic explanation, mad academic?

Enlighten us all with your academic genius and insights!

You don't have to have a PhD to realise that it's quite possible that a breeding population of large primates exists.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, we KNOW they have existed in the past. Fossil records are pretty hard to wish away. (Oh and BTW, ghosts don't leave fossil remains.) Perhaps they spread out across the globe and have changed slightly to adapt to local climates. Perhaps more than one species exists. I know the native people of Australia believe there are more than one type. They also believe they are physical..."hairy men"....or a "different race". But perhaps some of the more arrogant commentators here would presume to tell the Aboriginals they have it all wrong. Just don't know the "facts". LOL

So it's not a great stretch of the imagination for me to believe that a couple of species might exist on different continents (no; not Antarctica!). Say Australia, USA, Eurasia at least. They have enough food and enough places to breed.
To me, that's a far more believable explanation than the vacuous expression of "it's paranormal 7, science 0" (whatever that means....)

The indigenous races in Australia the US and Canada also believe they have paranormal/mystical abilities.

[Mad Academic]

Ok. So that's your position, Mad Academic.

Your position is the yowie and bigfoot are world champions at hide and seek!

So, where are they hiding, Mad Academic? Where might a human being find them?

You declare there is no paranormal or psychological element at play, so how does the yowie and bigfoot physically elude all of humanity?

We all want to know, so hit us with it. Where are they, or how do they do it?

You are very demanding and inquisitorial, aren't you, Mr Black? Rather petulant in fact.
But I'll try to give you a serious answer.

If you've ever walked/camped/hiked in the Australian "bush" you would know how very dense and unforgiving it can be.
How easy it is to get lost. Many people get lost in the bush each year and, despite their efforts and those of search parties, they are never found.
AND THEY SO DESPERATELY WANT TO BE FOUND.
Imagine the opposite; a large, strong, intelligent animal skilled at survival in the bush and it DESPERATELY DOES NOT WANT TO BE FOUND.
And you ask where they are and how they can elude "all of humanity"? (Most of humanity is not looking for them, BTW).

I do not have experience of the North American forests but I understand they are very large and inhospitable in parts, so the same difficulties in trying to "find" one would apply.

I DO have experience of 2 very tiny parts of the Russian forest (the Altai mountains and the Caucasus Mountains) and I can tell you that it is utterly wild and very difficult for people to move about on foot. But the local people believe strongly that a large primate inhabits the forest in both these areas. I suppose you, Mr Black, would like to journey there to tell them they are delusional? I think I know what they would tell you. And another thing; Russia is very, very big. It is two and a half times bigger than Australia and it has a LOT more forest, as it has more rain and snow. It is also thinly populated...many Russians have left the countryside for the big cities. The snowman is not seen in Moscow.
Many people are lost every year in Siberian forests. They go to pick berries or mushrooms and are never found. How difficult must it be to find something that wants always to hide?

In case anyone is interested (and I do not expect you to be) here is a link to a video filmed in Russia in Karelia (near Finland). Make of it what you will. I expect you, Mr Black, to be especially snide. I do not know if the video is "staged" or not but I can say their reaction seems genuine. They swear quite a bit in Russian. They are asking is it some sort of bear, maybe (but not really believing that either)?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdETKnrGE-o

There are a couple of other well-known Russian videos on the internet that I believe show the "real thing". Maybe one day we will have a good quality Australian video.

[Dean Harrison]

I can see the direction this thread seems to be traveling. Differing points of view have been made clear by differing personalities. That’s ok, however it’s beginning to turn a little personal now.

I hope we can continue the discussion without heading down the wrong road. If we can’t, the Topic will need to be locked. Let’s hope it doesn’t get to that, as it will be just a few ruining it for all. It would be selfish and unfair to others who enjoy to be involved in a more moderate and considerate conversation.


DMH

[gregvalentine]

In case anyone is interested (and I do not expect you to be) here is a link to a video filmed in Russia in Karelia (near Finland). Make of it what you will. I expect you, Mr Black, to be especially snide. I do not know if the video is "staged" or not but I can say their reaction seems genuine. They swear quite a bit in Russian. They are asking is it some sort of bear, maybe (but not really believing that either)?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdETKnrGE-o

You say it's Russian, but I thought for a hairy man it was actually movin' quite slow . . .

[thehairyone]

[Outback lurker]

Yes,funny indeed,but it’s turning into a pi$$ing match imo.......

[Harlem]

Hi,

Just thought I would add to this discussion my own feelings regarding this subject.

Technology: there is much discussion around how advanced our technology is and why we cant seem to capture a clear picture of them. One comment said its only a matter of time before a dash cam captures an image. I believe we have plenty of true pictures/films out there. The problem is the false information and how truth lying within that information gets lost. It is a very clever tactic, you only need to offer dissent once to put doubt in peoples minds. One of the interesting things about our society is the absolute belief that we are the smartest animal on the planet. Are we truely? I question this frequently.

Flash and Blood vs alien: Under here I personally operate under the very ‘human’ principle of occam’s razor. In my mind the most likely scenario is that they are flesh and blood with highly developed senses. BUT that doesn’t stop me thinking about theories of reality and how that could relate to Yowies for example string theory requires 13 dimensions for the maths to work....

Proof: The best witness is the human who has seen them with their own eyes. True its not repeatable, recordable or measurable or uses any scientific method but its true. My senses are certainly better when out in nature than any equipment I could use. Why do we need proof? Do you think the world would change dramatically?

Thinking about the world differently to how we have are expected to think is true curiosity.
I am a believer and I hope everyone finds their own truth.

[sensesonfire]

Yowie, Bigfoot, Dogman must be the only creatures on Earth that most of us believe to exist but cannot be proven even though they have been known to humans in particular indigenous peoples for hundreds of years and even more perplexing is why?
It defies logic that with the hundreds probably thousands of contacts and interactions yet we still cannot definitively say they are real.
There may very well be government conspiracies to deny their existence but that lie cannot be contained indefinitely and I believe some evidence of a real Bigfoot or Yowie would have surfaced by now.
So apart from the conspiracy theory, there are no other pretexts for me to believe they are flesh and blood ( although not totally convinced ) creatures with unbelievable paranormal intelligence. I don't have to number these as they are well documented by people who have experienced this phenomenon. And no I do not believe that this is one of the normal behavioural patterns that they possess that we humans can't understand.