Do you think yowies are flesh and blood or something else???

[GlennO87]

They in my opinion are not all this magic bull c**p people go on about. The reason people are scared and freeze when they see them is because most people dont know they exsist, so there for seeing something out of the norm that is believed to me a mythical creature is gonna make you freeze. I would freeze if i saw a horse twice the size of a normal one with 4 heads.....

I Understand completely it is very hard to swallow, but these are some of the views of others, unless you've seen one bit hard to judge really. I'm all flesh and blood believer myself, but what Dion had put up wasn't c**p. It was documented fact from the O'conners.
If I saw a four headed horse I'd laugh my ass off. If I saw something that didn't make sence then I'd probably freeze, Yowie, ghosts, UFO's, all that stuff. Then again I'd probably do the bolt too!

Cheers


A.

Not even hard to swallow. Just not realistic. Coming through portals and stuff. This aint StarGate SG1. God created the earth man, and these beings that we are so interested in that no one knows about.

[Ants77]

G'day,

Point taken. And I wouldn't knock your opinion at all. I didn't state that I belived in the whole story, nore did I mention the SG1 Portal. I found the account interesting. I just didn't think it was c**p, someone's belief someones accounts. A lot can be learn't from looking just out of the circle, believe it or not. I don't think they're ghosts or portal hoppers either. But I refuse to use God as an excuse because I don't agree or can't understand someone elses account. I'm sure a new forum section was created for just this argument. My belief's are private and don't depict my research, the evidence does. They also don't have backwards feet but I don't dismiss the fact it was documented, maybe the tracks where read wrong ? I'd never say no to information no matter how elaborate it may come accross, maybe it holds other things besides a personal view.

A.

[sapere aude]

No doubt we are all free and should be free to believe what we like. IMO I do see there could be some merit to the idea of god put forward by people like Spinoza and Einstein. It would be surprising if there wasn't some principle, energy or force underlying the universe (a completely impersonal one IMO). Yet I see a lot of irony here.

It seems quite acceptable to believe in a completely mythical, magical paranormal being ie. god. Even to credit creation itself to him. In much of society this is something that is looked upon quite favourably and many see it as quite politically incorrect to challenge such a notion. Despite having no more to substantiate it as being real. any more than Santa (perhaps a little less). Despite our understanding of cosmology, knowing that the planets formed by gravity/accretion, a commonly accepted fact that life on this planet evolved from a single common ancestor, abiogenesis hypothese looking promising. Basically not needing this being for anything so far, in fact regularly having to deny a lot of knowledge to hold such belief.

Yet when presented with a phenomena that truly does seem mysterious, for which the scientific approach constantly comes up empty handed, to hold open the possibility that something might be happening here that is beyond our current ability to understand.....this is too weird? This idea we have no trouble ridiculing with exaggeration..... star gates, portals?

[AMH-Hunter]

Well in the Bible it also tells of a group of angels in Heaven that lusted after human women. The offspring was the Nephilim, a superhuman race of giants.
Perhaps they could be flesh and blood but also have that spiritual side.
Angels are beings of light, and in the Bible it says that the Devil rules the world, but God rules so much more and has refused to give up on us.
Perhaps when it said to Sue that it was a being of light that resided in the Black Dimension, it meant it was an angel, fallen angel, or offspring of a fallen angel, that resided in the Black Dimension, our world that is the domain of the Devil.

Just a thought. After all, this is all about pitching ideas and theories.

AMH

[Dion]

Well in the Bible it also tells of a group of angels in Heaven that lusted after human women. The offspring was the Nephilim, a superhuman race of giants.
Perhaps they could be flesh and blood but also have that spiritual side.
Angels are beings of light, and in the Bible it says that the Devil rules the world, but God rules so much more and has refused to give up on us.
Perhaps when it said to Sue that it was a being of light that resided in the Black Dimension, it meant it was an angel, fallen angel, or offspring of a fallen angel, that resided in the Black Dimension, our world that is the domain of the Devil.

Just a thought. After all, this is all about pitching ideas and theories.

AMH

AMH Well done………… good to see someone knows their Bible, I have often thought of what the Bible would hold for such a challenging topic, what you have said I have thought of myself.

We all have different opinions, good to see people are willing to step over the boundary and share their thoughts no matter how controversial.

[AMH-Hunter]

The biggest flaw with my theory though, is that the Nephilim were wiped out in the flood during Genesis.
However, if the Nephilim were brought into existence because of Fallen Angels and human women, who's to say it couldn't have happened again? It's possible that with the angel's immortality and the human race's vastness that the Nephilim could never be able to be wiped out, for there's a possible infinite chance for the to spring up again. Also if I recall correctly, the Nephilim were cursed by God, perhaps that is why they hide from us? Too ashamed to let us, the Children of God, see them in their curse. Perhaps that is why they attack, letting shame turn to panicked aggression. Perhaps God's curse on them was to take their humanity and turn them to a beast.

Also, I have also considered they could be Edomites, the descendants of Esau that fled to Edom, which I remember reading somewhere that Edom was a mountainous region. He fled there after Esau sold his birthright to Jacob.
It states that Jacob had smooth skin, but Esau was covered in red hair that clothed him like a garment, and that he was a man of the field.
In Genesis 25:23 it says that Esau and Jacob would father to separate Nations, and that the older would serve the younger.
By what Sue said, hairy men live to be much longer than us smooth men. And Esau was older than Jacob.
If that is the case, perhaps the descendants of Esau are covered in long hair similarly, and serve the younger descendants of Jacob the smooth, us smooth skinned humans.
Perhaps they serve us by giving us dominance over Earth and limiting their population to the wild. Perhaps they think that we wouldn't be able to bare seeing them, and make the hard decision to stay out of our way to protect us and them.

Again, I'm just throwing possibilities around. After all, it's quite obvious to most that see them that they aren't just wild animals. This is just a theory or two I quickly came up with as to how they could be men.

AMH

[Neil Frost]

G’day Jo,

I hope that the family is well.

I like your “corporeal seven to eight foot tall brick outhouse on legs covered in hair” illusion. It raises doubts about them being anything less substantial. I think that many of us prefer to discuss physical characteristics rather than indulge in wild speculation, across a variety of religious and other doubtful and irrelevant sources.

Your suggestion of a meeting to try and nut out some common ground based upon group experiences seems very worthwhile. There would need to be a framework determined. It would be good to consolidate knowledge based on encounters. For some time I have been encouraging Aboriginal contacts and students to do the same, before the understanding is lost.

Regarding derision and an unwillingness to come forward - I am past caring, even though I continue to cop ridicule and have to defend others. Attitudes have improved in the mountains over the past twenty years, mainly due to hard work.

Wow. As for the remainder of this thread, there seems to be no hope! Every extreme possibility is represented. How is this moving research forward, when it has no relevance based on encounters?

Neil

[David]

Wow. As for the remainder of this thread, there seems to be no hope! Every extreme possibility is represented. How is this moving research forward, when it has no relevance based on encounters?

Neil

It's somewhat interesting in a blindly speculative way I suppose. You were the fourth man with a visual sighting I have personally spoken with. All report a F&B creature. All physical evidence I have been privy to has suggested the same. I also don't know what environments other people are researching in but in my sub alpine environment I could squat 5 meters away and I'd never be noticed. Camo/blend yes... vaporise parallel shift? mmmm.

I suggest in relation to the OP's question that researchers operate on the premise that they are a F& B whatever, try and get some F&B evidence and leave wild speculation for around the camp fire. In answer to Neil's question... It doesn't.

[Stevo]

The Maharishis (saints or seers or enlightened beings) of India have said many things about dulagarls. Clearly they are endued with flesh and blood. In ancient times there were many technologies that were developed that were much more powerful and refined than our own. This included weapons of destruction that were as powerful as our modern weapons.

In ancient times one of the rakshasas, as they were called back then, built a palace for one of the sage kings that was renowned for it's powers of illusion. There may appear to be a door, but if you would try to proceed through it there was only a wall. Likewise a wall may have a doorway in it that couldn't be seen. A pond of lilies would appear to be in the middle of a room, but was not really there. Then again seeing a floor you would fall into a pond of lilies. This extraordinary palace was created by the rakshasa named Maya approximately 5,000 years ago.

It is conceivable that these beings had acquired the siddhis, or powers to levitate and dematerialise, etc. These are technologies that can be developed through yoga. Before white settlement in this country the inhabitants led very disciplined lives that would have had, I imagine, a very high level of purity. Like the yogis of India they would have developed certain abilities. This isn't mystical mumbo jumbo. There is a body of scientific research supporting this understanding. It is extraordinary and surprising and very solid science. (Google: 'Maharishi effect') What I suggest, is that in the bush where there isn't the distraction of modern living, these practices and understandings may be practised undisturbed.

From the perspective of ancient India we are living in a very impure time and so a lot of that knowledge is lost, however, much of the Aboriginal knowledge is still there.

I spoke to Brett Green about it and he seemed to be well aware of this. I'm hoping he writes about it in his next book, which he said he was intending to do.

[andrew]

Only got two questions. Do the "spirits" have dna? If so, how?

[sapere aude]

Only got two questions. Do the "spirits" have dna? If so, how?

Don't know. I don't know if there is any such thing.


Do Yowies? If so, where is it?

[sapere aude]

Just out of curiosity, how would a reported sighting like the one in the link be approached? Dismissed as nonsense? Keep the good part about the Yowie and throw the rest out? Tell him he was wrong? Show him all of the physical specimens that people have collected?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RW1Fyk6YDs

[Jo Blose]

Neil,

Good thanks, and hopefully the same with yours!

I agree that observations of physical attributes and observations such as of shrubbery moving as these things brush past them, vocalisations, foot thumps, and breaking of branches, etc, all point to very physical beings. I'm not aware of any ghost or poltergeist reports for instance, where the entity presents in as solid a fashion as the yowie seems to. Personally, I find this the most interesting aspect, which separates itself from other fringe areas to research. Sure, the observer of an apparition may later declare the apparition looked as solid as you or I, but it's almost unheard of that the apparition will have the same physical level interaction with the environment that the yowie appears to. The conundrum is that as physical as they appear to be and as physical as their interactions at the time, in the cold light of day, the amount of evidence available somehow always falls short!!!???

As for the paranormal angle, it seems to be divided into two groups itself, whereby one group says the entire creature is a "paranormal" product and the other group straddles the fence witrh the flesh and bloodies saying they are physical just like you and I, but with extraordinary abilities.

People can speculate about siddhis, beings from the bible, and their personal belief models and how these reports fit into those models until the cows come home, but as Neil has alluded to, these speculations are in no way useful in furthering anybody's understanding of what these creatures are. The only way anybody will further this understanding is through field research with no grants. We live in a time where so much information is available at our fingertips on a keyboard, that people are loathe to make their own inquiries and test theories out for themselves.

[Ants77]

I give up.

[Dion]

these speculations are in no way useful in furthering anybody's understanding of what these creatures are. The only way anybody will further this understanding is through field research with no grants.

Speculations, maybe? Theory's to which we have no conclusive proof of a Yowie, Yes!

I agree Field Research will gain peoples knowledge better, but some of us have have had strange encounters, which include the paranormal, also which there is no normal scientific explanation.

As you should know.

[Dion]

I give up.

Ants its all about forming your own opinion, no one has the answers even those who think they have them, Including Myself.

I have theory's and an encounter/experience which leads me to the paranormal thats all.

[andrew]

I give up.

Ants its all about forming your own opinion, no one has the answers even those who think they have them, Including Myself.

I agree with Dion on those points. I just prefer to concentrate on what we have more chance of proving. At the end of the day we have little tangible evidence that would withstand the rigours of a scientific investigation. That is just our lot and we have to work with what we have. Doesn't deter me from being convinced they are out there and that time will vindicate the many encounters and experiences of so many over such a long time. The weight of circumstantial evidence suggests we will succeed eventually. As for the paranormal aspect - to each his own. For me though it is almost impossible to prove. I am reminded of the stories of the Kalkadoons of the Barkly Tablelands as told by Ion Idriess. From the perspective of Europeans, the prowess of that aboriginal tribe at fast communication over extraordinary long distance seems paranormal by any modern measure. How they did what they did even today seems magical but they did it. The inexplicable often has a foundation in the mundane physical world. We just need to look harder for the answers before assigning skills like that to the world of mystic powers. I leave the door open to be surprised though. As I have said before we have such a poor understanding of the human mind and what it is capable of.

[Ants77]

Thanks Dion,

All we do is field work which we pride ourselves on. I'm just so interested in every aspect and view of the Yowie. But in the process of private elimination I find it hard to learn from the fence line. And I only stay there to learn.

I believe in science, flesh & blood, Evolution, dinosaurs, the Yowie. But the last few years have been hell for me, personally face the pine box, I was given another chance, I know there is something else, let me tell you a 2.5kg aggressive Crohn's disease tumour in the sigmoid colon doesn't go benign over night after years of pain, immunosuppressants, steroids, kemo. I just can't tell the person next to me who believes that there is something else, that there isn't.

It's really hard to talk to some red names sometimes and I hope this hasn't offended them with my personal view of something else ( God ) he holds good values for me, I'm a good boy now days.
As I believe in one but I research another and they never clash. I guess I thought religious factor true or not may have been important to some.


A very big thank you to Dean for being the first to see me at the hospital. The AYR rescue pack was awesome and helped very much with recovery.

Cheers


A.

[Dion]

Hey Ants

Sorry to hear about your hospital visit mate hopefully your feeling a lot better and are on a good road to recovery.

[Ants77]

Cheers Dion,


one or two more big cuts and I'll be a new man, lol missing a few bits and pieces but. This reply was a bit sorry guys.


A.

[elreeko]

WOW this has been the best post ,this is what i love about this forum good mature discussion.Hope you get fighting fit soon Ants

[andrew]

Cheers Dion, one or two more big cuts and I'll be a new man, lol missing a few bits and pieces but. This reply was a bit sorry guys. A.

Never hurts for your personal battle to remind the rest of us of our own mortality, Ants, so no need to apologize. Tends to focus the mind on what is really important. Good luck with the outcome.

[Ants77]

Thank you guys.

Xxxx


Ants.

[Stevo]

Hey Ants, I'm totally with you. Are we so successful in our yowie research that such an important consideration as psychic phenomenon should be dismissed out of hand? I don't think anyone thinks that. All our interactions seem to be on the yowies terms and they for the most part, despite our fascinating ways, don't want a bar of us.

Steven M Greer is all over the internet. He has been using TM (Transcendental Meditation) as a basis for contacting ET's (Extra Terrestrials) and his CSETI group never fails to make contact. They are Remote Scanning (using their feelings to locate ETV's or Extra terrestrial vehicles) and vectoring (using thoughts to bring them to a specific location) all the time. They are using many techniques that are very unconventional and that are working. They are producing the results, and everyone is listening. (Steven Greer organised the Disclosure Project where over 500 military, gov't and intelligence personnel were prepared to swear in Congress about there experiences concerning ET's and their technology) It's hair raising stuff. Portals & things may not be as ridiculous as they seem. I don't know about that stuff.

I do know that everyone in a university (MUM or Maharishi University of Management) is using an ancient yogic levitation technique. (The basis of the technique is TM) Why would they do that? Highly significant increase in brain function. (Heaps of studies on this.) A study was done comparing 2,000 faculty and student members to controls in another university. There was measured an 82% decrease in medical expenses in MUM. To people in the medical profession, that is astounding. That isn't all by a long shot. It's a freak show, but my point is, that maybe we need to be a little less narrow and maybe there is some value in expanding the parameters of our thinking. Not being afraid to put something unconventional out there is very helpful even if it isn't always a perfect fit. Just because one or two people don't get it, doesn't mean that others don't appreciate the contribution. I for one do. Fascinating thread.

Very sorry to hear of your ordeal Ants. Best wishes to you and thanks for your valuable contribution.

[tez]

AMH-Hunter, doesnt the bible also speak about Nephilim-type beings being chained within the earth somewhere? I seem to remember that.

[AMH-Hunter]

I'm not so sure about being chained within the Earth somewhere, but they are mentioned to be chained in darkness;

"Jude 1:6

'And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.' "

The Great Day could refer to the day of The Lord at the end of all times prophesied in Revelations, The Day of Judgement.
However, there are theories to suggest that the Nephilim, the Fallen Ones, are in fact everything that takes our focus away from God.
The Nephilim could be Hairy Men, they could be Aliens, they could be Ghosts.

These are some links that touch on the subject.

About the Nephilim posing as Gods and Aliens:
http://revelationnow.net/2012/02/05/the ... -stand-up/

About the Nephilim in general:
http://socioecohistory.wordpress.com/20 ... -delusion/

This link describes the Nephilim and it states they had strong psychic powers,
' " According to tradition, in addition to being very large and strong, the Nephilim had enormous psychic abilities. They performed out of body experiences, levitation, mind control, time travel, mind reading and remote viewing. They had the power of pronouncing and removing curses and diseases, and had ways of knowing and predicting the future. Having aligned themselves with Satan, the source of their powers, they controlled and enslaved mankind and perverted God’s creation almost beyond redemption.

They were also extremely intelligent. They knew all about science, architecture, and engineering. Some believe they combined these skills with their powers of levitation to build the Great Pyramid and other great monuments around the pre-flood world. They sacrificed human beings all over the planet in temples and pyramids they built in Central and South America, the Far East, the British Isles, Egypt and other places. They drank our blood and slaughtered our babies, and were almost certainly tampering with both human and animal gene pools to pervert the creation and make our redemption impossible. They were the heroes of old, the mighty men of renown, memorialized in every mythology, and the primary reason God had to destroy the world and all its inhabitants in the Great Flood." '


http://gracethrufaith.com/ikvot-hamashi ... -nephilim/

[glenmore79]

Isn't there a seperate board now for this type of discussion?

Admins? Mods?

[Dion]

Isn't there a seperate board now for this type of discussion?

Admins? Mods?

Hey Glenmore79

Because this thread has grown into a religious area it has been moved.

I'm not so sure about being chained within the Earth somewhere, but they are mentioned to be chained in darkness;

"Jude 1:6

'And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.' "

The Great Day could refer to the day of The Lord at the end of all times prophesied in Revelations, The Day of Judgement.
However, there are theories to suggest that the Nephilim, the Fallen Ones, are in fact everything that takes our focus away from God.
The Nephilim could be Hairy Men, they could be Aliens, they could be Ghosts.

These are some links that touch on the subject.

About the Nephilim posing as Gods and Aliens:
http://revelationnow.net/2012/02/05/the ... -stand-up/

About the Nephilim in general:
http://socioecohistory.wordpress.com/20 ... -delusion/

This link describes the Nephilim and it states they had strong psychic powers,
' " According to tradition, in addition to being very large and strong, the Nephilim had enormous psychic abilities. They performed out of body experiences, levitation, mind control, time travel, mind reading and remote viewing. They had the power of pronouncing and removing curses and diseases, and had ways of knowing and predicting the future. Having aligned themselves with Satan, the source of their powers, they controlled and enslaved mankind and perverted God’s creation almost beyond redemption.

They were also extremely intelligent. They knew all about science, architecture, and engineering. Some believe they combined these skills with their powers of levitation to build the Great Pyramid and other great monuments around the pre-flood world. They sacrificed human beings all over the planet in temples and pyramids they built in Central and South America, the Far East, the British Isles, Egypt and other places. They drank our blood and slaughtered our babies, and were almost certainly tampering with both human and animal gene pools to pervert the creation and make our redemption impossible. They were the heroes of old, the mighty men of renown, memorialized in every mythology, and the primary reason God had to destroy the world and all its inhabitants in the Great Flood." '


http://gracethrufaith.com/ikvot-hamashi ... -nephilim/

AMH Great post something I have thought of many times.

As far as I know the Giants of the Bible or Nephilim were wiped out in the flood, but their spirits roam the earth as Demons.

The fallen Angels however were not all bound in chains, some can, and still do roam the earth and heavens, as far as I know, and can take any form they wish to deceive man.

[AMH-Hunter]

Dion,
I didn't read about the fallen angels still roaming free, but I didn't read about them not roaming free either, I was more focused on the Nephilim.
I knew they were supposed to be wiped out in the flood, I didn't think about their spirits roaming the land as Demons. I just figured that perhaps some more angels turned and created a new race of Nephilim. But if not all the fallen angels were chained by God, and they still do in fact roam Earth, then I suppose that means that they can lust after human women and create another Nephilim whenever they want.
Perhaps some roam solely as demons and a new generation exists as flesh and blood, but with a spiritual side like humans, the ability to think and make decisions and a soul, as well as maybe possessing the Psychic power that the old Nephilim possessed. Of course, this whole new generation thing is merely speculation with nothing more to back it up than things fitting together in my head.

Or I'm overthinking it and Hairy men are just another perfectly human tribe.

[sapere aude]

I'm not religious in the normal sense, nor have any firm beliefs in the supernatural. Though I do have the feeling there is far more to our universe that we have yet to learn, so I try to keep an open mind. Nothing like diversity of opinion.

I do wonder about the insistence that science is the only area that will get results. I don't disagree with the sentiment, yet I can't help notice that the popular type of "science" used so far is the one completely devoid of results (in any scientific sense). I do also wonder what is considered as science by it's adherents regarding the Yowie. If we start with the conclusion that we are dealing with a normal biological creature and restrict ourselves to the appropriate field, it seems we already have an answer. As far as a negative can be proved, we are dealing with folklore, a non physical myth. Though I don't see that beginning with a conclusion about an unknown and then looking for whatever will support this conclusion, as scientific in principle. This appears to be clinging to personal belief and pseudo science, in the hope that science might one day support it. Surely this should be the other way around, we should follow the facts wherever they may take us? I also doubt biology would necessarily be the only relevant field of science.

I can see where the insistence we are dealing with a normal creature like any other, while all indications and facts we do have (or complete lack of regarding a biological creature... for centuries) point to something different, as not gaining much sympathy with scientists in general. Even the most sympathetic scientist (Meldrum) has been known to refer to amateur researchers, rather unkindly, as the "proletariat". Surely "I don't know, yet nothing supports it as a biological reality"" would be at least honest and it would fit in with the facts we do have. Being that people see them, but as yet we don't know why? Science has no trouble saying "I don't know" when it doesn't. This seems largely how it works, hypotheses derived, experimentation follows, results appraised, hypotheses discarded or supported to form theories etc.

It doesn't matter how many stick tee pees, rock stacks, tree bites or noises in the bush we find. To attribute any of this to an as yet unknown creature would be considered wishful thinking and pure pseudo science. To science at large this would be folklore in action. It also doesn't matter how many yowies we see or chase through the bush, how many others also do the same and believe. Personal testimony has a lot of weight in forming personal beliefs and in folklore, yet is almost worthless in science unless verified.

I don't wish to discourage any type of research (and am sure that my small input won't ), no doubt all research is helpfulin some way. I have doubts that the truth of this will be found by continuing to flog the same dead horse. I feel if it arrives, it will be by someone who is prepared and open minded enough to follow what they find, unbiased, using the scientific method as appropriate more so than restricting themselves to one particular branch. Perhaps (possibly likely) it will lead to areas that are beyond what can be verified by science at present. If so, then so be it IMO.

I also disagree with the opinions about the supernatural. I wonder why people would form opinions or state as fact that all experience of this type must appear a certain way, or does not interact with it's environment. This is untrue. I have no answers, but there are instances of corporeal looking "phantoms" just like in the "Frank video" regarding all manner of claimed supernatural experiences.

As far as not being able to prove or experiment where the supernatural is concerned, I doubt that is true also. There are scientific based groups that already do this. Even Randy is prepared to do this, though admittedly to weed out the "charlatans". I doubt a group of genuine open minded researchers would have much trouble.