Latest findings

[Searcher]

I'd just like to add my voice to the chorus of "Come Back Welly!".

Don't go mate... your input is desperately needed to help understand what is really happening out there in the bush!

You're right. Most of us haven't got a clue about the big picture.

And you're the one who sees them "every day, every day, all the time, night and day ".

I for one want to learn from this.

[gregvalentine]

I'd just like to add my voice to the chorus of "Come Back Welly!".

Don't go mate... your input is desperately needed to help understand what is really happening out there in the bush!

You're right. Most of us haven't got a clue about the big picture.

And you're the one who sees them "every day, every day, all the time, night and day ".

I for one want to learn from this.

Let's hope 'Wellington' hasn't given himself the 'Boot'.

[Dion]

Everyone's welcome here including welly.

Although the airy fairy stuff needs to be pulled into line a bit IMO.

I believe them to have special abilities such as spirit form among many others,

However shape shifting into Bush turkeys and i see them "every day, every day, all the time, night and day " are excessive and can lead people down the wrong path.

A lot off people either lead to one side or the other,......... Scientific or Spiritual.

Do not live in one box without the other, or else you will never discover anything.

Just my 2 cents.

[TrevorPeters]

Uh oh , I think I've offended Wellymon .
Wellymon , if your reading this , come back mate , I wasn't pointing the finger at you , I was pointing it at the entire planet . Once you start looking around you'll start to see that paradolia isn't just a yowie thing , it's all over the planet . Structures on mars , structures on the moon , crashed spaceships in Antarctica , sasquatch's , bigfoot , ghosts , ufo's , lochness monster , aliens , spaceships near the sun , giant skeletons , flat earth , nibiru , the list goes on and people see what they want to see . Youtube is infested with it .

I'm not saying it's not true , what I'm saying is how do we prove all these claims ? Can't we at least be a little scientific about it ? Words and a picture aren't good enough anymore , it hurts the yowie community .

Thanks Yowie Bait . Bob Gymlan has been down that road before all of us and by the sounds of it knew many years ago that they wouldn't be discovered . Must be very frustrating for him .

Thanks for the link Simon , sounds very familiar to what we're experiencing .

Don't get too down on yourself Rusty. You haven't said anything that others of us have not already thought or said. I think I even managed to annoy YB with my mentions of "pareidolia" in a previous thread.
I guess you need in some respects to have a thick skin in cases like this. When certain people mention things like "Words and a picture aren't good enough anymore , it hurts the yowie community", it is for a very good reason. If you can't take criticism why enter the dialogue in the first place? It helps to have a big picture view of the issue. For me it is not about who is wrong and who is right, it is about what approach will have the best chance of gaining scientific acceptance or interest.

Exclusive John Bindernagel Presentation On Sasquatch

In this presentation, wildlife biologist Dr John Bindernagel examines how the bigfoot topic in general has been trivialised to the point that no respectable scientist wants to be associated with that sort of stigma and the general public have no true understanding of the amount of evidence that is already available. There is more than enough to establish in legal terms, a "prima facie" case that Bigfoot/Yowie/Yeti may exist yet most professionals won't touch it with a barge pole. Paradoxically they use the same sort of trace evidence (tracks, vocalisations, sign, etc) in their mainstream research on other animals without a problem. In order to fight this trivialisation, we need to be meticulous and scientific in field research if we are to ever get anywhere with the professionals in the relevant fields.

I am not against anything paranormal and I don't disrespect those who claim to have witnessed such phenomena by claiming they are liars. I believe there are beyond normal aspects to many of the topics discussed in this forum that are genuine, including the Yowie. Nevertheless, by chasing the rabbit too far down that hole it just serves to pour fuel on the fire of trivialisation. I get called a kook, crazy, and other such self-affirming terms already simply by admitting I go out looking for them. I can't see how the amplification of paranormal views is anything but damaging to the aim of bringing the discovery of these creatures (for they have already been discovered) to the attention of the world in such a way that scientists can't keep ignoring it.

As always feel free to disagree - I'll still shake your hand and have a beer with you no matter what you believe.

[adventurer]

SEARCHER---well said. WE all need wellys input.

RUSTY--The word paradolia is offending, we know about it, but we also know its got nothing to do with our sightings.We look up to you but dont forget and disregard what you have seen with your own sight & hearing/forget scientifically for a moment.

DION--The airy fairy stuff should not be pulled into line--I know it can put people off but It could be facts.

Stop going round and round in circles on this topic. The more people that come forward with there own experiences, thats when we will get more knowledge on this subject.

Oh just my input.

[Yowie bait]

While i think its condescending to call paredoilia or confirmation bias when someone has snapped a photo of something they claim to have definitely seen, i also think its very important to be aware of these things.


Pareidolia is some powerful stuff and i truly believe it could drive someone to the nuthouse if they let it. Its good to be harsh on yourself when examining evidence but to still keep an open mind if your not 100% sure.

The whole nature of the yowie lends itself to pareidolia. Whether theyre peeking from behind trees that are the same colour as them, pretending to be rocks or stumps etc. They know their environment so well that they can do these things and with complete confidence as well.

As far as the more far out stuff regarding the yowie, well honestly nothing would suprise me anymore. They are totally weird by our human standards so best to keep an open mind in my opinion.

Welly has some great advice if you read his posts, most of all to respect the yowie and his environment, be positive and be open minded about their origins and behaviour.

I will say one thing about the real paeredoilia ( i give up on spelling bloody predictive txt or whatever!) Is that its amazing that once you realise or are pointed out what it really is, then you cant see it anymore..like it was never there.!

And yeah like Rusty says, it seems words and pictures arent enough anymore. If you want to convince the real skeptics or even a true believer then you need something very impressive to present. Theres just too many hoaxes and " bigfoot b.s ers out there ruining it for everyone.

[Simon M]

Thanks that book looks good Simon. I guess the gorilla researchers copped it too!

Sadly, yes - and it all happened right in the middle of Charles Darwin's release of his controversial book "On the origin of species". The discovery of the gorilla happened just in time to be linked in the public's mind with Darwin's ideas, and everyone involved ended up being attacked by the scientific establishment, the European aristocracy, the Church, you name it. Paul Du Chaillu was a reputable scientist whose work was based on field research, not theoretical arguments, but he wound up being pilloried in the same way Darwin was.

I'd imagine that any definitive proof of the Hairy People would be met with the same mixture of fascination and hostility. Society really hasn't changed much since those days, despite the technological progress we've made.

[ChrisV]

Problem is that this whole topic is littered with holes.
Its a classic battle between truth and fiction...and they will collide one day. Then the fog will clear and we'll know exactly what the situation is.
Until then - speculation, theories and opinions will persist and either be accepted or rejected.

Kudos to Rusty, Welly, Dean and the other prominent contributors for keeping this ship afloat. And for the regular armchair contributers who challenge and seek the best explaination for whatever comes up. We are all in the same boat. Better to row together than capsize it.

Rant over.

[Simon M]

You're right about the 'holes' - there's so much we don't know, and cannot know.

I am just leery of assumptions. I don't mean to sound dismissive, I am just super cautious about what can realistically be stated as an assumption based on available evidence.

If people are saying that Yowies can do stuff that's physically impossible, then we have to redefine what we're dealing with...but I'm not prepared to accept a paranormal explanation until we know for sure they're not just very good at evading us, or they're not somehow able to addle or disrupt our senses (via auditory or other means) so that they simply appear to be defying the laws of physics.

[Ray Doherty]

when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?

- Sherlock Holmes

[Bobnottski]

Hello all long time lurker first time poster,

Without all the research (especially wellymon and rusty)
That has been done and then posted on this site my weekend
Would have been the normal going camping, everyone laughing
at me when I bring up the subject of "yowies"
Thanks to me reading everything on here many nights a week and
Watching rustys you tube channel constantly waiting for the next bit of anything
to pop up
In bed with the sceptical wife beside me saying yeah yeah sure
She had herd enough of the stories to know that what she herd over 2-3hrs
In the middle of Friday night was indeed one of our elusive friends

Let's just say the wife is now a very firm believer!

Thank you guys, for all the time and effort you put in to do what you do
without it she would not have even known what she was witnessing.

Oh now she doesn't think I'm quit as much of a nutter!

[gregvalentine]

Hello all long time lurker first time poster,

Without all the research (especially wellymon and rusty)
That has been done and then posted on this site my weekend
Would have been the normal going camping, everyone laughing
at me when I bring up the subject of "yowies"
Thanks to me reading everything on here many nights a week and
Watching rustys you tube channel constantly waiting for the next bit of anything
to pop up
In bed with the sceptical wife beside me saying yeah yeah sure
She had herd enough of the stories to know that what she herd over 2-3hrs
In the middle of Friday night was indeed one of our elusive friends

Let's just say the wife is now a very firm believer!

Thank you guys, for all the time and effort you put in to do what you do
without it she would not have even known what she was witnessing.

Oh now she doesn't think I'm quit as much of a nutter!

Our appetite for more information (about your elusive friend, not your wife) has been wetted.

[ChrisV]

You're right about the 'holes' - there's so much we don't know, and cannot know.

I am just leery of assumptions. I don't mean to sound dismissive, I am just super cautious about what can realistically be stated as an assumption based on available evidence.

If people are saying that Yowies can do stuff that's physically impossible, then we have to redefine what we're dealing with...but I'm not prepared to accept a paranormal explanation until we know for sure they're not just very good at evading us, or they're not somehow able to addle or disrupt our senses (via auditory or other means) so that they simply appear to be defying the laws of physics.

I agree with your approach Simon. I think its very healthy.
Unfortunately the great divide between " I know its the truth" and " show me the evidence" is going to exist for sometime yet. Bit like when sailors thought the world was flat and you'll fall of the face of the earth over the horizon line.

I have people close to me who are super skeptical - even when you roll out some good meaty evidence like Missing 411, AYR reports, Pattersons film etc. Some people will not believe until it falls on their head. An still they probably will doubt it calling it a fraud or prank whatever. I'm learning that trying to convince folks they exist is a waste of my energy....it better to talk with like minded people and let others come to us than trying to convert others.

[Rusty2]

Lots of good points raised , and the best part is we're talking about it .

Thanks for the link Trev , never heard him speak before , sounds like a very sensible man .

Glad to hear your persistence payed off Bobnottski . Had she heard it before somewhere or just put it down to a yowie ?

Your still needed here Welly , come back mate , sorry if I hurt your feelings , it wasn't my intention .

[Wolf]

You're right about the 'holes' - there's so much we don't know, and cannot know.

I am just leery of assumptions. I don't mean to sound dismissive, I am just super cautious about what can realistically be stated as an assumption based on available evidence.

If people are saying that Yowies can do stuff that's physically impossible, then we have to redefine what we're dealing with...but I'm not prepared to accept a paranormal explanation until we know for sure they're not just very good at evading us, or they're not somehow able to addle or disrupt our senses (via auditory or other means) so that they simply appear to be defying the laws of physics.

I agree with your approach Simon. I think its very healthy.
Unfortunately the great divide between " I know its the truth" and " show me the evidence" is going to exist for sometime yet. Bit like when sailors thought the world was flat and you'll fall of the face of the earth over the horizon line.

I have people close to me who are super skeptical - even when you roll out some good meaty evidence like Missing 411, AYR reports, Pattersons film etc. Some people will not believe until it falls on their head. An still they probably will doubt it calling it a fraud or prank whatever. I'm learning that trying to convince folks they exist is a waste of my energy....it better to talk with like minded people and let others come to us than trying to convert others.

I too agree with almost every point Simon brings up.
Someone estimated once that only one in ten sightings/experiences ever get reported because of fear of ridicule. I would guesstimate it to be far less than even that.
Then you have the percentage of people who refuse to even believe their own eyes and will explain away 'something odd' as simply that... there must be a reasonable explanation for that strange howl and those rocks being thrown at them.
As to Welly... I for one have my own opinion on his 'research' and theories of portals (that he took photos of remember?) and transmogrifying yowies. But that is my own opinion and who am I to say who's reality is more 'real'?

For all I know we are all just manifestations of thought and energy birthing and dying only to be birthed again in a world of endless possibilities, including the possibility of Yowies shape shifting into scrub turkeys.
Welly did not say if he was not posting anymore because of disenchantment stemming from feeling disbelieved, or simply lack of time and other interests taking precedent.

He once took offence at my thread on Bigfoot bullsh*tters, seemingly believing it was an attack on him personally when it was a generic thread on whether BSers are to be pitied or hated for the disinformation they put out. Only Welly knows if he was BSing or not.

[Bobnottski]

Yeah on your channel rusty, bush went strangely quite, wood knocks followed by a tree being shaken
and a bird going nuts and sounded like the tree was pushed over, bird screeching like something had hold of it then silent, then definite bi-pedal walking and what sounded like calls between two of them? maybe? We herd the walking come within about ten meters of the tent
Wife was buy this stage freaking a little as we had our three boys with us, as it started "walking" away we herd Currong calls, we herd it walk up a gully behind us ,mind you this was between 11:00pm and 2:00am.
I tried to do a bit of investigating in the morning but could only manage to get about 20m from tent before the terrain and the bush being so dense stopped me going further, location was deep in the Brindabella mnts

[adventurer]

quote wolf-He once took offence at my thread on Bigfoot bullsh*tters, seemingly believing it was an attack on him personally when it was a generic thread on whether BSers are to be pitied or hated for the disinformation they put out. Only Welly knows if he was BSing or not.[/quote]

OUCH-i hope welly doesnt read this.I think he simply stated
"Could you please explain, who are these Bullshit people, so maybe we/I could all be aware of them.
That guy JHYowie sounds a little weird."

I know when rusty put this thread up it made me doubt myself. I know its not the typical animal so i looked at people, but still had no explanation of how a human could do this
1--Darkness running along side of us in thick bush with no torch keeping up and throwing rocks at same time.
2--exact same grunting noise in a triangle way apart from each other
3--only 1 tree moving shaking in daylight(all the other trees next to it were still.)
4--horrid smell
5--no car on 1 way road for miles(who would walk hours and know when we r there to scare us)
6--2 of us saw grey large figure crossing path

Its possible a human can

1--make gate screaching sounds out there by a recording played
2--find and move honey jar
3--make stick structures and small tree breaks
4--make feet yowie impressions
5--knocking noises and rock stacks
6--take the fruit and fishing wire of trees
7--throw large rock on roof of car

Then i think back when we heard the birds ahead of us up high screaming/ dying. On our way out the feathers layed down on the same path we walked in on. Theres 90 000acres of bush out there, the feathers happen to be on our same path we use? These are only some things happening out there that i cannot explain.
We do try and be logic but to no avail, not to mention thousands of other people worldwide with similar experiences.I mean are there thousands of humans out bush playing havoc on us everywhere?????????

quote--when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?

[Rusty2]

I think you and Wellymon may have misunderstood me Dee .

I certainly wasn't trying to discredit you , Ron or Wellymon or your experiences . I know you guys are/were having real experiences out in the forest and so is Wellymon . I was actually talking about single photographs posted on this or any other website without any back up evidence . Generally speaking , paradolia in a single photograph without any backup evidence is a problem especially if the picture is vague or ambiguous . I'd never go out of my way to deliberately hurt anyone , I'm not that type of person . I'm actually here to help anyone I can .

Sounds scary Bobnottski , this is why I don't go out at night . Sounds like you definately had an encounter , it has all the hallmarks , calls , bipedal footsteps , currawongs (AT NIGHT) , woodknocks , awesome !! Will you now be investigating , now that you know where they are ? Audio recorders are a cheap way of collecting good information .

[Wolf]

Dee, perhaps I read too much into his post, that's the problem with communicating with text, it is very easy to misread someone's tone.
That was the point of my 'BSers, deserving of anger or pity' thread only BSers KNOW if they are BSing.
For someone else to declare them as BS artists is arrogant... who are we to know another's mind/reality?

I have always like that old saying attributed to the First Nations people; "never judge a man until you have walked a thousand miles in his moccasins."

[Wolf]

I think you and Wellymon may have misunderstood me Dee .

I certainly wasn't trying to discredit you , Ron or Wellymon or your experiences . I know you guys are/were having real experiences out in the forest and so is Wellymon . I was actually talking about single photographs posted on this or any other website without any back up evidence . Generally speaking , paradolia in a single photograph without any backup evidence is a problem especially if the picture is vague or ambiguous .

You are correct.
Or example, posting pictures of tree stumps without going back to see if it has moved later means we cannot discount pareoldolia regardless of how distinctly we 'see' a yowie in it.

You didn't come across to me as discrediting anyone, ubt ni said in m previous post, tone is all in the 'ear' of the reader when it comes to cummincating via text. That is unavoidable.

[adventurer]

I think you and Wellymon may have misunderstood me Dee .

I certainly wasn't trying to discredit you , Ron or Wellymon or your experiences . I know you guys are/were having real experiences out in the forest and so is Wellymon . I was actually talking about single photographs posted on this or any other website without any back up evidence . Generally speaking , paradolia in a single photograph without any backup evidence is a problem especially if the picture is vague or ambiguous . I'd never go out of my way to deliberately hurt anyone , I'm not that type of person . I'm actually here to help anyone I can .

Sounds scary Bobnottski , this is why I don't go out at night . Sounds like you definately had an encounter , it has all the hallmarks , calls , bipedal footsteps , currawongs (AT NIGHT) , woodknocks , awesome !! Will you now be investigating , now that you know where they are ? Audio recorders are a cheap way of collecting good information .

I know your not trying to discredit us in any way. But you sound like no one will ever get that photograph (real yowie pic) in our lifetime. I know many pics of say rocks can look like a face or whatever but dont be embarrassed about it--look at me--i told u i thought we saw eyes in the bush staring at the car and it was my own stuping recorder reflecting back on the windscreen!! I felt stupid.
I just didnt want you giving up, we all have hope in you and between all of us we will get something.
I am keen to on wellys experiences (even though i havnt seen what he saw) but while theres other negativity on this site he wont come back.
WOLF--you are 100% correct. Typing can easily be misread.

When ron gets better we will go back.Ill get of my scared ass and go. We have to help out too. We are in a hot spot so we will do what we need to do.
Thanks rusty(again)

[Bobnottski]

No investigation needed, I have had quite a few encounters over the years
spent my youth not far from where you are rusty, camping in the bush nearly
every weekend we could as kids/teens, my way of thinking is if I leave them
alone they will leave me alone. It is the first encounter out where we where
on the weekend the weird thing to me was when we first arrived 8:30ish Friday morning
my 12yr old son walked straight down to the creek to check it out and said he looked up the creek
to see what he described as a huge grey dog run from the river into the bush, this I did investigate
as I know there are lots of wild dog packs in the Brindies, had a look for about an hour in
the spot he saw it ,sand in creek, soft muddy bank and not one print. We own a husky
And he said it was twice the size!

[Bobnottski]

Sorry about spelling doing it on my phone

[Rusty2]

Dee , I sincerely hope someone gets something tangible soon , god knows we need some damning proof that the general public can see clearly once and for all .

I'm not saying no one will ever get a photograph , I'm saying that I doubt very much that these creatures will be scientifically recognised in our lifetime . This will take more than just getting a yowie on video . Apart from the fact that we can't get them on video properly is only half the problem , our government will do anything it can not to recognise them . The discovery of the yowie will be a double edged sword and there will be a price to pay one way or another . One part or many parts of the community will be very unhappy with this discovery and the consequences it will have .

I'm sorry to hear that Welly won't come back . What I have noticed is that people get so close to this subject and so excited and emotional that any reasonable points or questions directed at that person is instantly taken as an insult or a personal attack . We need to accept constructive criticism which isn't easy . I had a hissy fit on here years ago and had to crawl back with my tail between my legs . It's very difficult to diplomatically respond to someone who appears to be attacking you .

Bobnottski . I heard a similar encounter of a "wolf" north east of mogo from two separate people . One person saw it walking on the road . He said it was huge and would just fit into his ute . The other person said he saw the footprints in the dirt and decided he wouldn't go for his afternoon walk anymore .

Your right Wolf , tree stumps don't help anyone .

[Bobnottski]

Funny u should mention Mogo, I'm from tomakin just down the road.My boy said it wasn't a wolf just saw something large and grey running on for legs that looked like a dog, I'm thinking that it was a the yowie.......

[Simon M]

I agree with your approach Simon. I think its very healthy.
Unfortunately the great divide between " I know its the truth" and " show me the evidence" is going to exist for sometime yet. Bit like when sailors thought the world was flat and you'll fall of the face of the earth over the horizon line.

I have people close to me who are super skeptical - even when you roll out some good meaty evidence like Missing 411, AYR reports, Pattersons film etc. Some people will not believe until it falls on their head. An still they probably will doubt it calling it a fraud or prank whatever. I'm learning that trying to convince folks they exist is a waste of my energy....it better to talk with like minded people and let others come to us than trying to convert others.

Thank you - and I agree, 'converting' people is a waste of time. Some people don't want to be convinced, and they seem to be in the majority. It's always been that way with any new idea, especially one that challenges our own self-proclaimed superiority in the overall scheme of things.

Rusty also makes some solid points in this thread - it's not a matter of questioning someone's integrity, it's a matter of having something that can be used as irrefutable proof. A photograph, in this day and age, won't do the job. Even before photoshop existed, a photo on its own wasn't enough to convince most people. The Patterson/Gimlin footage is still considered fake by many.

The weight of eyewitness accounts and the few examples of physical evidence (footprint casts and the like) have convinced me that there's some kind of creature out there we know very little about, and which most people don't even want to know about. If this were a court case, the sheer weight of eyewitness testimony would ensure a win of some kind...but it's not a legal issue, it's a scientific one.

Beyond that, I'm no expert - I have had no encounters with anything unusual in the wilderness. I haven't seen or heard anything, ever, that I couldn't explain. I've no idea how I'd react if I did see a Yowie, but I doubt I'd even say anything to anyone, not even on this forum. I'd just have a differently informed opinion, I suppose, than I do right now.

As far as anyone else's perception goes, I can't comment on it: only they know what they saw and experienced. I do think, though, that we need to be careful regarding how we define evidence and opinion, perception and proof. They're different things entirely.

[paulmcleod67]

Sterling work as always matey

[Rusty2]

Thanks Paul !

[Yowie bait]

I agree with your approach Simon. I think its very healthy.
Unfortunately the great divide between " I know its the truth" and " show me the evidence" is going to exist for sometime yet. Bit like when sailors thought the world was flat and you'll fall of the face of the earth over the horizon line.

I have people close to me who are super skeptical - even when you roll out some good meaty evidence like Missing 411, AYR reports, Pattersons film etc. Some people will not believe until it falls on their head. An still they probably will doubt it calling it a fraud or prank whatever. I'm learning that trying to convince folks they exist is a waste of my energy....it better to talk with like minded people and let others come to us than trying to convert others.

Thank you - and I agree, 'converting' people is a waste of time. Some people don't want to be convinced, and they seem to be in the majority. It's always been that way with any new idea, especially one that challenges our own self-proclaimed superiority in the overall scheme of things.

Rusty also makes some solid points in this thread - it's not a matter of questioning someone's integrity, it's a matter of having something that can be used as irrefutable proof. A photograph, in this day and age, won't do the job. Even before photoshop existed, a photo on its own wasn't enough to convince most people. The Patterson/Gimlin footage is still considered fake by many.

The weight of eyewitness accounts and the few examples of physical evidence (footprint casts and the like) have convinced me that there's some kind of creature out there we know very little about, and which most people don't even want to know about. If this were a court case, the sheer weight of eyewitness testimony would ensure a win of some kind...but it's not a legal issue, it's a scientific one.

Beyond that, I'm no expert - I have had no encounters with anything unusual in the wilderness. I haven't seen or heard anything, ever, that I couldn't explain. I've no idea how I'd react if I did see a Yowie, but I doubt I'd even say anything to anyone, not even on this forum. I'd just have a differently informed opinion, I suppose, than I do right now.

As far as anyone else's perception goes, I can't comment on it: only they know what they saw and experienced. I do think, though, that we need to be careful regarding how we define evidence and opinion, perception and proof. They're different things entirely.

True Simon. While you would have a more informed opinion if you had an encounter, you would also have at least few facts about the yowie up your sleeve.

What i find frustrating about all this research,and this is not directed at Simon or anyone in particular, is that we already had the knowledge when we ( settlers) arrived in the country in the first place in the form of the local Aboriginal elders. Same goes for the Americas and pretty much anywhere else Europeans have "colonised" .

Unfortunately we choose to ignore this information and still are today. Be it gorrillas, yowies, places to hunt or build cities. Take los angeles for instance. I read somewhere that the Native Americans wouldnt ssttle in l.a long as they didnt like the way the smoke settled above the area, among other things and look it now, plagued by earthquakes, floods and fires every year .

These "stories" told by elders and depicted in cave paintings all over the world are based on something. Maybe its lost in translation or been muddled up a bit over the THOUSANDS of years these people have been here but still very relevant in my opinion.

Some of the stories of shape shifting, spirit forms , bush spirits etc is no different to what Welly and others have been saying . Its arrogant to assume theyre all just bedtime stories to scare kids just because we dont understand or doesnt fit with what we want the yowie to be or do.

There is a lot of this archived on the ayr main board and all over the internet . We may need to read between the lines a bit, but it really is worth having a look.

[Simon M]

No worries, YB - I'm not going to take anything personally mate. We're all here to discuss stuff that most people consider myth or fantasy, so we need to be able to make allowances for everyone's take on it. If I've made anyone feel bad with my 'Occam's razor' stuff it wasn't intentional.

There's certainly more going on than we understand, I agree. I just dislike making assumptions unless I can back them up. It's true that the presence of ancient stories regarding these creatures is valuable as evidence, but it's also difficult to know which parts are fact and which parts are pure legend.

I have no doubt that these things exist, none at all. I have no knowledge about their true nature. Some people may have some knowledge that I don't possess, but it's not able to be presented in a format that allows it to be subjected to scientific scrutiny. If knowledge is not communicable then that makes it difficult to prove or even understand.

I don't doubt Wellymon's sincerity, I am just not sure that what he's experiencing is able to be verified. So often these encounters have a 'you had to be there' quality to them, and I think this is part of the issue with their believability. If these things can do stuff which confounds our current understanding of science then it makes them uniquely difficult to study.

Once you add even the tiniest hint of the paranormal into a topic, 95% of people are going to tune out right away; it's just the society we live in. Others will dismiss it on religious grounds and so on. Most people will openly laugh about any suggestion of the supernatural.

I'm not laughing at anyone though, I'm just saying that I can't accept anything that cannot be verified. I cannot believe in creatures that can change physical form, for example. It's not something I can accept, but I can accept that others believe it. I'm not religious, but I accept that some people are and I'm not about to mock them for it. I know lots of intelligent people who are religious, so there must be something to it even if I think it's all untrue. Some people would laugh at me for posting on this forum, so who am I to judge?

As long as we can all discuss this stuff, that's the main thing.