Yowiehunters Forum

Yeah but remember survival is all about energy exchange... how much energy do I get in exchange for the energy put out? Cheetahs are incredibly fast too, in short bursts... but if they don't get a kill every two or three hunts (energy expenditures) they starve.

Best to hunt smart and keep the bursts of speed as short as possible... ambush predation.

Wolf wrote:Yeah but remember survival is all about energy exchange... how much energy do I get in exchange for the energy put out? Cheetahs are incredibly fast too, in short bursts... but if they don't get a kill every two or three hunts (energy expenditures) they starve.

Best to hunt smart and keep the bursts of speed as short as possible... ambush predation.

Yep i was thinking that. No point wasting energy if you dont need to.

Yowie bait wrote:Yeah Wolf. Good point about the hunting/roaring. Why draw unneccessary attention and give away the position?

Excellent thread with some great theories to ponder.

Sometimes it seems they really want to make their position known!

As for experiencing a Yowie 'primal roar', one of the best and most articulate and detailed accounts can be found in the Audio Reports.
This one is 'Odd Experience in the Colo' and can be viewed at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hr7Li6Aqs6c
Well worth a listen if you are not already familiar with this case.

Searcher wrote:

Yowie bait wrote:Yeah Wolf. Good point about the hunting/roaring. Why draw unneccessary attention and give away the position?

Excellent thread with some great theories to ponder.

Sometimes it seems they really want to make their position known!

As for experiencing a Yowie 'primal roar', one of the best and most articulate and detailed accounts can be found in the Audio Reports.
This one is 'Odd Experience in the Colo' and can be viewed at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hr7Li6Aqs6c
Well worth a listen if you are not already familiar with this case.[/quote


Yowie bait says:

Hi Searcher. Yes thats an excellent encounter. I listened to it recently and was amazed how similar it was to my own. Especially how they try to figure out what it was and the overall confusion and shock and awe of the situation.

When i hear encounters like this and what happened with me, it seems they are almost more scared of us and do anything they can to scare us without actually making physical contact as they really flip out.

I believe they show themselves for one reason or another too as you say...

Yowie bait wrote:

Searcher wrote:

Yowie bait wrote:Yeah Wolf. Good point about the hunting/roaring. Why draw unneccessary attention and give away the position?

Excellent thread with some great theories to ponder.

Sometimes it seems they really want to make their position known!

As for experiencing a Yowie 'primal roar', one of the best and most articulate and detailed accounts can be found in the Audio Reports.
This one is 'Odd Experience in the Colo' and can be viewed at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hr7Li6Aqs6c
Well worth a listen if you are not already familiar with this case.[/quote


Yowie bait says:

Hi Searcher. Yes thats an excellent encounter. I listened to it recently and was amazed how similar it was to my own. Especially how they try to figure out what it was and the overall confusion and shock and awe of the situation.

When i hear encounters like this and what happened with me, it seems they are almost more scared of us and do anything they can to scare us without actually making physical contact as they really flip out.

I believe they show themselves for one reason or another too as you say...

Physical contact is too risky. In the bush even a small wound can become infected. Why risk physical contact when acting very aggressive does the job?

Yes i suppose even a puny human can bite and scratch. Id go for the nut shot if it came down to it..then bite and scratch.

The infrasound thing is also used by elephants to keep track of the herd and can be heard by other elephants from kilometers away.I'm thinking maybe yowies also might use infrasound for the same reason as well as a deterrent against humans wandering into their domain.

Yes, many contradictions. However, if you've done extensive reading of reports you'd find people from very different areas report the same things. I don't think anything should be dismissed-I think the smart researchers would take in all information-should be categorized. Flesh/blood or paranormal-could be both-we just don't understand how they can do what they do-yet. Unfortunately, the word 'paranormal' has a stigma attached.

I could use myself as an example-when I'm knee-deep in working to maintain our property, I am filthy, sweaty, anti-social, stinky,crawling around on the ground, pawing in dirt while taking care of weeds-completely focused on trying to tame our yard. If you catch me when I'm doing this and it would be our only interaction-you would make a judgment-I tend to be a bit cranky and a bit unintelligible when I'm interrupted. On the other hand, after I'm clean, wearing decent clothes, my hair is styled and I'm wearing cosmetics and am relaxed or enjoying socializing, being articulate and we met for a moment-you would have a completely different impression of me-we all have different facets to our personality when we do different activities. Point is, we have interactions with Sasquatch under wildly varying circumstances. Many of those reports show a clear pattern. Just because someone catches a glimpse of one digging for grubs and snorting like a hog shouldn't necessarily make it more /less true than seeing one unlatch your barn door, walk in and stroll out with armloads of snacks and look back at you and laugh or having them down any camera/sensor they see or trap you set. Footprints that come to a end in an open field? How can that be? Seems like they do that, too. (Or some of them can do that.)

I think I'm seeing too many people rule out one thing or another because they don't think it is feasible. There is no reason not to believe they are as diverse as we are-we DO have brain surgeons, rocket scientists and those who cannot even spell the simplest of words correctly, we have those who like to kill and those who will kill nothing, disrespectful and respectful people. Why can't this be applied to the Sasquatch/Yowies?

I do think most people are reliable witnesses. I've seen that more often, the comments about people being unreliable witnesses to explain away unusual characteristics of the Sasquatch. Yes, some people do see huge, hulking black blobs peeking from behind a tree-some people get the up-close and personal, quite a few report odd incidents that many think are flat out lies. I'm not one to dismiss a report from someone who is not a former military, Law Enforcement Officer/Anthropologist expert. These beings are every bit as different in appearance, temperament, behavior as we are.

I don't know what or who they are-I can't say for sure if they don't possess paranormal skills. (Believe me, if I saw a Sasquatch do something so unbelievable and no one believed me, it would drive me crazy!) I suspect they were here long before we were. I think the only way to get beyond this block is to just keep an open mind and take in all information/ideas that people are willing to offer. Pay attention to everything, don't discount but try to consider. I do keep thinking about the idea that our Native Americans think that they are "part spirit" and they can "walk in two worlds." Very interesting observations.

The footprints coming to an end in an open field has always made me laugh.

Growing up reading Louis Lamour novels I learnt this was a favourite trick of anyone knowing they were being tracked... simply walk backwards carefully placing your feet into the same tracks you left, then climb a tree, or step sideways onto a hard surface like a rock and go off in another direction.

Good point Wolf about walking backwards in same tracks and they have been seen walking on logs and rocks to not leave tracks ....can't think of any other animal that has such awareness to avoid detection barring humans of course. Sasquatch Chronicles has a story from a woman who was living in Manitou...great story..well articulated and she witnessed a sasquatch defecating in a creek which has also been reported by other people that have had encounters.Might explain why there is no scat to be found.I didn't listen to audio but read her story it was amazing and very believable. The story is a recent one released this month for anyone interested.....sorry can't do link thing.

Speck wrote:Yes, many contradictions. However, if you've done extensive reading of reports you'd find people from very different areas report the same things. I don't think anything should be dismissed-I think the smart researchers would take in all information-should be categorized. Flesh/blood or paranormal-could be both-we just don't understand how they can do what they do-yet. Unfortunately, the word 'paranormal' has a stigma attached.

I could use myself as an example-when I'm knee-deep in working to maintain our property, I am filthy, sweaty, anti-social, stinky,crawling around on the ground, pawing in dirt while taking care of weeds-completely focused on trying to tame our yard. If you catch me when I'm doing this and it would be our only interaction-you would make a judgment-I tend to be a bit cranky and a bit unintelligible when I'm interrupted. On the other hand, after I'm clean, wearing decent clothes, my hair is styled and I'm wearing cosmetics and am relaxed or enjoying socializing, being articulate and we met for a moment-you would have a completely different impression of me-we all have different facets to our personality when we do different activities. Point is, we have interactions with Sasquatch under wildly varying circumstances. Many of those reports show a clear pattern. Just because someone catches a glimpse of one digging for grubs and snorting like a hog shouldn't necessarily make it more /less true than seeing one unlatch your barn door, walk in and stroll out with armloads of snacks and look back at you and laugh or having them down any camera/sensor they see or trap you set. Footprints that come to a end in an open field? How can that be? Seems like they do that, too. (Or some of them can do that.)

I think I'm seeing too many people rule out one thing or another because they don't think it is feasible. There is no reason not to believe they are as diverse as we are-we DO have brain surgeons, rocket scientists and those who cannot even spell the simplest of words correctly, we have those who like to kill and those who will kill nothing, disrespectful and respectful people. Why can't this be applied to the Sasquatch/Yowies?

I do think most people are reliable witnesses. I've seen that more often, the comments about people being unreliable witnesses to explain away unusual characteristics of the Sasquatch. Yes, some people do see huge, hulking black blobs peeking from behind a tree-some people get the up-close and personal, quite a few report odd incidents that many think are flat out lies. I'm not one to dismiss a report from someone who is not a former military, Law Enforcement Officer/Anthropologist expert. These beings are every bit as different in appearance, temperament, behavior as we are.

I don't know what or who they are-I can't say for sure if they don't possess paranormal skills. (Believe me, if I saw a Sasquatch do something so unbelievable and no one believed me, it would drive me crazy!) I suspect they were here long before we were. I think the only way to get beyond this block is to just keep an open mind and take in all information/ideas that people are willing to offer. Pay attention to everything, don't discount but try to consider. I do keep thinking about the idea that our Native Americans think that they are "part spirit" and they can "walk in two worlds." Very interesting observations.

Hi Speck,
I believe that Native American, the First Nations people of Canada as well as Australian Aboriginals are indeed the best guide to go by as far as knowledge of these creatures after all they have been dealing with them for hundreds of years. They will all tell you they are part mystical beings with supernatural powers. When you are dealing with crypto creatures it is not as simple as categorising them into flesh and blood and supernatural I believe they can transfigure when the occassion arises.

Those who believe in the flesh and blood theory will single out theories that they can perhaps provide an answer to at the same time ignoring the ones they cant. The Finding Bigfoot TV show is a great example of that. Scientists are conspicuous by their absence on these topics basically because they have no idea so people will step in with their own palaeontology explanation with virtually no chance of science ever backing them up.

Some may think this comment should possibly be on the paranormal discussion page but I don't because I'm of the opinion that the Flesh and Blood and Paranormal theory are intertwined.

sensesonfire wrote:I believe that Native American, the First Nations people of Canada as well as Australian Aboriginals are indeed the best guide to go by as far as knowledge of these creatures after all they have been dealing with them for hundreds of years.

Those who believe in the flesh and blood theory will single out theories that they can perhaps provide an answer to at the same time ignoring the ones they cant. The Finding Bigfoot TV show is a great example of that. Scientists are conspicuous by their absence on these topics basically because they have no idea so people will step in with their own palaeontology explanation with virtually no chance of science ever backing them up.

Some may think this comment should possibly be on the paranormal discussion page but I don't because I'm of the opinion that the Flesh and Blood and Paranormal theory are intertwined.

I think the comment is in the right place - and I agree that there's much to be learned from indigenous knowledge and experience. The only issue with that is having a detailed understanding of the cultural nuances this information reflects. Some of this information is literal and some is allegorical, as with any human culture. It's also worth remembering that, in most indigenous cultures, all of nature has a spiritual aspect to it. All human cultures have creation stories, for example, but are they literally the truth? They're based on a belief that they're true, but can they all literally be true? What about the cultures that state there was a first man and woman, or a group of men and women, or beings who were both male and female in one body to begin with who became men and women at a later point...they cannot all be factually correct, but they are all true if you hold that particular belief. All beliefs are true to those who believe in them.

I'm not suggesting any eyewitness information should ever be ignored, but if it can't be explained in a logical way then it's speculation. Speculation is fine, but much like the debate about string theory it cannot be proven because it cannot be tested. We can say they're interdimensional travellers, shape-shifters, etc, but we can never back that up as we don't know for sure that such things are even possible.

The point of adhering to science is that we can expand our knowledge based on observation - if we just decide that Yowies can vanish at will (for example) then we are literally ignoring a massive amount of evidence-based observation which tells us that living things cannot do that. No other living being has ever been seen vanishing into thin air at will...but they can? It doesn't make sense to me. This is why I look to the facts, and try not to jump to conclusions.

Based on eyewitness testimony alone these creatures are obviously able to do any number of things we cannot even imagine, but unless we can prove it we're just making things up.

If I say "it's all a hoax and it's just people prancing around in ape suits", and decide that's the truth, then I'm failing to examine the evidence and simply forming an opinion. If I say "They must be able to do things which are physically impossible for any other living being because I have no other explanation" I'm doing the same thing, from an intellectual standpoint - I am adopting an opinion not forming a hypothesis.

It's not a straightforward 'science versus magic' debate, any more than politics is really a 'left versus right' debate.

Science is a method of observing and recording things so as to be able to make trustworthy deductions. That's all it is. If we cannot see it - as Erwin Schrödinger said - then we do not know what the outcome is until we open the box and have a look.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger%27s_cat

I'm not prepared to just take shot-in-the-dark guesses. Too many mistakes can be made using that method and it's essentially how philosophies and religions begin; a concept that overrides observable fact. You can live an ethical life in this way, but you may never know what's really happening because you refuse to see beyond your chosen concept to examine the facts (witness the ongoing debates over Charles Darwin's theories amongst religious fundamentalists, or the arguments about climate change based on the idea that only God can change the weather, etc).

We can all state our opinions - of course - but believing that science is the enemy of cryptozoology, or of what AYR is all about, isn't accurate.

People whose jobs are reliant on their reputation who won't risk saying things that will damage that reputation - this is the issue that holds back research into Yowies. For various reasons - mostly the hoaxers - people in general don't accept their existence as reality. Anyone who says they're real is laughed at. That's the basic problem.

There are scientists who speak up, and whose careers do survive...but their comments are ignored.

We all agree they're out there...but I'm not going to start sitting at my computer and guessing about anything beyond the acknowledgement of their existence. Until I have evidence - not proof, but evidence - that 'phasing' between different dimensions is even possible to begin with, I'm not about to start putting it forward as an explanation. I don't even know if there are different dimensions to travel to, so I'd just be guessing.

As for people being reliable witnesses it's fair and accurate to say that some people are more reliable than others. Just listen to the AYR audio reports - different people notice different things and go into differing amounts of detail. Some people go into extreme detail about tiny aspects of the Yowie's appearance or demeanour which they noticed even as it ran away from them. Some people aren't even sure what colour its hair was after looking at it for two entire minutes while it was standing still. Some people flat out lie as well, as has been stated, which doesn't help.

Great post Simon M

Thanks, Tim.

I often feel like I write too much, or come across as being too 'strident' or assertive...but I'm not trying to be a smart arse or anything, I just don't think me sitting here making wild guesses is helpful to what AYR is trying to achieve.

People will believe and say what they want to, and it's their right to do so, but I feel I should clarify my position. I'm not suggesting anybody is more right than anyone else, or that anyone is wrong for believing what they choose to, I'm just establishing my own position so people know where I'm coming from.

If someone proves me wrong, I'm 100% okay with that - science is about learning and changing your opinion based on objectively established fact. If I am guessing I state it clearly, and I freely admit that I have no first hand experience with any of this stuff. I have never seen a Yowie, or anything remotely unusual.

I can accept that there's a lot I don't know - I think people are capable of a lot of stuff we ourselves have yet to understand. I think poltergeist activity may well be a psychokinetic projection of the human subconscious (we know parts of our brain are not used by the conscious mind, and do not know everything about the brain's capabilities, plus there's a lot of anecdotal evidence about psychic abilities which goes back into prehistory), or that certain locations may retain a 'recording' (due to magnetic fields? Ley lines?) of traumatic experiences that took place there which we experience as 'hauntings'...but I don't believe ghosts are the spirits of dead people trying to communicate with us; that's a choice I have made, and it's a belief. I have no evidence that proves the dead cannot communicate with the living. Some would strongly disagree, and that's fine too. We can all discuss these things as adults and that's why we're here - we are all more similar in our beliefs than different or we wouldn't be posting here.

Those beliefs alone disqualify me as a reputable source of info by any and all standards of normal scientific thinking, and mark me as someone who believes in parapsychology (which is strictly pseudoscience). Even mentioning poltergeists puts me in the 'lunatic fringe' basket. I'm well aware of this.

I think Yowies/Junjadees exist. I am 100% convinced that they do. I am dubious about the Dogmen thing. This is also a chosen belief. I have no proof of either, only a belief in the weight of evidence. There's a lot of evidence that suggests the presence of various forms of primate in Australia (and elsewhere), but I remain totally unconvinced when it comes to Dogmen...again, this is a choice I have made based on my own opinions.

So I also hold beliefs which are not based on factual evidence, and I accept that. I am not trying to put down anyone's beliefs, please understand that. I will always favour the overwhelming weight of evidence, though. Again, that's a choice I make.

I know some people readily accept the shape-shifting idea, but I cannot. I am convinced that these creatures can do things which can confuse us and even make us question our own five senses, but that's as much as I'm willing to state based on what we currently know.

Umm..its the selfish, lazy and irresponsible scientists that come up with these theories on time travel, interdimensional travel, multiple universes, string theory etc etc. They even get grants to experiment on their smug b.s theories instead of working a normal job like the rest of us and usually knowing already that its not feasible. Bloody hilarious!

Simon M wrote:Thanks, Tim.

I often feel like I write too much, or come across as being too 'strident' or assertive...but I'm not trying to be a smart arse or anything, I just don't think me sitting here making wild guesses is helpful to what AYR is trying to achieve.

People will believe and say what they want to, and it's their right to do so, but I feel I should clarify my position. I'm not suggesting anybody is more right than anyone else, or that anyone is wrong for believing what they choose to, I'm just establishing my own position so people know where I'm coming from.

If someone proves me wrong, I'm 100% okay with that - science is about learning and changing your opinion based on objectively established fact. If I am guessing I state it clearly, and I freely admit that I have no first hand experience with any of this stuff. I have never seen a Yowie, or anything remotely unusual.

I can accept that there's a lot I don't know - I think people are capable of a lot of stuff we ourselves have yet to understand. I think poltergeist activity may well be a psychokinetic projection of the human subconscious (we know parts of our brain are not used by the conscious mind, and do not know everything about the brain's capabilities, plus there's a lot of anecdotal evidence about psychic abilities which goes back into prehistory), or that certain locations may retain a 'recording' (due to magnetic fields? Ley lines?) of traumatic experiences that took place there which we experience as 'hauntings'...but I don't believe ghosts are the spirits of dead people trying to communicate with us; that's a choice I have made, and it's a belief. I have no evidence that proves the dead cannot communicate with the living. Some would strongly disagree, and that's fine too. We can all discuss these things as adults and that's why we're here - we are all more similar in our beliefs than different or we wouldn't be posting here.

Those beliefs alone disqualify me as a reputable source of info by any and all standards of normal scientific thinking, and mark me as someone who believes in parapsychology (which is strictly pseudoscience). Even mentioning poltergeists puts me in the 'lunatic fringe' basket. I'm well aware of this.

I think Yowies/Junjadees exist. I am 100% convinced that they do. I am dubious about the Dogmen thing. This is also a chosen belief. I have no proof of either, only a belief in the weight of evidence. There's a lot of evidence that suggests the presence of various forms of primate in Australia (and elsewhere), but I remain totally unconvinced when it comes to Dogmen...again, this is a choice I have made based on my own opinions.

So I also hold beliefs which are not based on factual evidence, and I accept that. I am not trying to put down anyone's beliefs, please understand that. I will always favour the overwhelming weight of evidence, though. Again, that's a choice I make.

I know some people readily accept the shape-shifting idea, but I cannot. I am convinced that these creatures can do things which can confuse us and even make us question our own five senses, but that's as much as I'm willing to state based on what we currently know.

You dont write too much. Your posts are always interesting and always get your point across.

IF they shape shift, travel in portals, dimensions etc then how do we obtain that evidence and who would believe it even if presented with it? Information is so muddled and hard to obtain that we cant even prove they exist at all. All we have is eyewitness testimony and results from our ever frustrated researchers.

I just dont think our current generations are capable of understanding these things or will be for a long time. It will happen though . Bits and pieces will surface and the cracks will start to open up. Once something unusual is proven or accepted then theres no looking back then.

We dont even have to think for ourselves. Things are explained for us on the news and by our scientists, teachers etc Any info from the older races is destroyed upon European settlement and civilization or labeled as religion or folklore.

War, conflict, pleasure and technology is all we understand and what our whole civilization is geared for. Sadly any spiritual or out of the ordinary is lost on most of us.

Yowie bait wrote:IF they shape shift, travel in portals, dimensions etc then how do we obtain that evidence and who would believe it even if presented with it? Information is so muddled and hard to obtain that we cant even prove they exist at all. All we have is eyewitness testimony and results from our ever frustrated researchers.

I just dont think our current generations are capable of understanding these things or will be for a long time. It will happen though . Bits and pieces will surface and the cracks will start to open up. Once something unusual is proven or accepted then theres no looking back then.

We dont even have to think for ourselves. Things are explained for us on the news and by our scientists, teachers etc Any info from the older races is destroyed upon European settlement and civilization or labeled as religion or folklore.

War, conflict, pleasure and technology is all we understand and what our whole civilization is geared for. Sadly any spiritual or out of the ordinary is lost on most of us.

This is true, sadly.

You're right about things happening in small increments, though - there will be a time when we do understand all this but it won't be for decades, maybe more. All we can do is try.

Yowie bait wrote:IF they shape shift, travel in portals, dimensions etc then how do we obtain that evidence and who would believe it even if presented with it? Information is so muddled and hard to obtain that we cant even prove they exist at all. All we have is eyewitness testimony and results from our ever frustrated researchers.

I just dont think our current generations are capable of understanding these things or will be for a long time. It will happen though . Bits and pieces will surface and the cracks will start to open up. Once something unusual is proven or accepted then theres no looking back then.

We dont even have to think for ourselves. Things are explained for us on the news and by our scientists, teachers etc Any info from the older races is destroyed upon European settlement and civilization or labeled as religion or folklore.

War, conflict, pleasure and technology is all we understand and what our whole civilization is geared for. Sadly any spiritual or out of the ordinary is lost on most of us.

Our society has been conditioned into psychopathy. A society of socio/psychopaths, narcissists and nihilists is a society easily manipulated and controlled, especially with television 'programming'.

For decades now the media has taught the people, right from when they are first sat in front of the idiot box as babies, that narcissistic, materialistic behaviour is not only acceptable but desirable. There is deep psychological brainwashing behind even 'simple' tv characters like Homer Simpson... Dad's are bumbling idiots etc. whether this brainwashing is intentional or not is irrelevant... it is there and its effects plain for anyone with open eyes to see. Personally, after many years of studying and working in the television industry I believe this brainwashing to be largely intentional. There are countless 'white papers' and writings on this from the likes of Edward Bernais. The world we are living in makes Orwell's 1984 pale in comparison when it comes to social programming.

Personally, I watched how one show, The Simpsons, changed the bahaviour of a whole generation. I was teaching primary aged children from before that show came to Australia and noticed plainly how boy's behaviours changed 'overnight' to reflect Bart's. Don't get me wrong, I find The Simpsons funny but I refused to let my own son watch it until he was a teenager. The characters are funny because they are sarcastic reflections of reality. Children do not 'get' sarcasm in that way, especially when flooded with it every single night.

Instead of our role models today being philosophers, 'real' scientists and thinkers our role models are pop stars, actors and sports celebrities... lately even chefs!.

An interesting point: Every civilisation had a common theme in the final years before it fell... the worship of sports celebrities and chefs. From the Roman Empire to the Greeks, to the Aztecs, every one.

Rant over.

Wolf-Ha! Yes, walking backward in tracks is not unthinkable-I've seen it done enough in movies and on television.

I do appreciate the scientific approach-Dr. Bindernagle is very enthusiastic and supremely frustrated all at once. You would think it might appeal to other scientists-it's fascinating. Many are trying to solve the mystery by approaching them as if they are typical wildlife-a good, scientific approach. We then get that there doesn't seem to be enough evidence of a food source for them to exist in such numbers-which then leads people to conclude the eyewitness reports are incorrect. (I've read line of thought a bit too often.) How can so many people be seeing them when there are not enough berries to go around? (Simplifying here.) It seems to be a sticking point.

I tend to think many researchers believe they are going to capture an ape. There is talk of migration. Instead of migratory why not think of them in terms of nomadic? To keep measuring them in terms of average wildlife might not be the best idea but you need to do that for the scientific method.

I am more impressed with the sound captures-footprints are amazing, but the sounds that are analyzed always capture my attention-they seem to be a reliably authentic way to prove something unusual is out there. The stick structures are very interesting and we're seeing more and more online, but there can be doubt about those. The sounds can be examined scientifically and I think it is major proof. I also suspect the unusual sounds can be captured in more places that are not considered because of food source issues-which could mean they are more widespread.

I have been following the theories of infrasound, tapetum lucidum, light reflecting hair, cuttle fish camouflage, etc. People STILL say their eyes glow-no doubt-it is no reflection. You can't escape the weirdness.

There certainly are a lot of differences between sightings but there are also similaries, just from reading the posts on this forum there are many diverse opinions on what they actually are.Reminds me of the fact that ten people can witness a crime and you will get ten differing answers to what actually happened.In my opinion we should look at the common threads between reports and start from there and considering there seems to be several types of yowies that may have also impact on what is reported eg one species could be aggressive and another passive leading to a contradiction.They certainly are an enigma.

Lozza62 wrote:There certainly are a lot of differences between sightings but there are also similaries, just from reading the posts on this forum there are many diverse opinions on what they actually are.Reminds me of the fact that ten people can witness a crime and you will get ten differing answers to what actually happened.In my opinion we should look at the common threads between reports and start from there and considering there seems to be several types of yowies that may have also impact on what is reported eg one species could be aggressive and another passive leading to a contradiction.They certainly are an enigma.

It boils down to interpretation I think. There is no way of standardizing the interpretation of any suspected data. What one sees in a photograph others see as explainable tricks of shadow and light, what some hear as bipedal running and walking others hear as wallabys hopping or grazing. So I agree with you Lozza ask 10 different people... the contradictions that Tim highlights are simply a product of that.

This thread became, quite interestingly I add, quite broad in its conjectures. All I can suggest from my experience is everyone seems to formulate their opinions from there own research and experiences which again is subjective to interpretation and again we are on the mouse wheel. In regard to our australian research this confusion, which in many cases has turned into gleeful cynicism, is fueled in my opinion by the relentless bombardment of trash from the United States. Can you take anyone for their word anymore? Are they seeking fame and google cheques? Are they a wacko? Like I suggest its all part of the mousewheel.

The contradictions, for my extra 2 cents, are completly inspired by conjecture. I can see a fleeting moment of what fits the desciption of a yowie disappear behind a rock and because when I looked behind the rock it wasn't there, with enough mental gymnastics my research could leave me to believe yowies merge with rocks. What is sad for dooligal research is with the help of todays social media I can attract other people and convince them of that. Today's conjecture powered by the sometimes sheep on social media helps formulate a murky cloud that people pick and choose from like picking their opinions from vending machines.

I only bother with Yowie Hunters reports and the rare research video by Rusty.. I keep a loose eye on Todd Standing in North America who I find fascinating yet somehow tainted by the more strident campainers for truth and justice that infest the internet. Once again all adding to the contradictions, conjecture, and ultimately opinions that serve as fuel for the mouse wheel. I try and get out into the mountains at least once a week and have done since 2010. My opinion is after one glimpse, hundreds of hours of audio recordings and one, long lost, 8' tall image of eyeshine on a trail camera, is that they are hairy, humanlike and very accoustomed to utilizing their environment to remain concealed. Are they flesh and blood? In my opinion yes.. until someone proves to me otherwise. I am bounded by my experience which isn't everyones experience.

And thats about it. The rest is conjecture leading to contradiction. Is that a yowie bite or a yellowtailed cockatoos nibblings? Is that a yowie tree break or a beetle infested wind fall? If you believe youtube every marsupial scratching in the leaf litter is a yowie 'impession.. In closing I'll add the only thing I am truly convinced of is they can be audio recorded. Flesh and blood making noises and interacting with their surroundings. In my opinion Rusty is doing a fine job in this regard but more research is required in the field. Honestly the Yowie Hunters collection of witness audio reports clinch it alone. They are the only real source of getting a compsite sketch of the offenders.. the rest is conjecture leading to contradiction. Therin ends the rant.

It boils down to interpretation I think. There is no way of standardizing the interpretation of any suspected data. What one sees in a photograph others see as explainable tricks of shadow and light, what some hear as bipedal running and walking others hear as wallabys hopping or grazing. So I agree with you Lozza ask 10 different people... the contradictions that Tim highlights are simply a product of that.

I agree Dave and that is why we need to do better with the capturing and presenting of evidence. That is why Rusty has been attempting to find ways to extract data from an audio recording (e.g. comparison of fundamental frequency vs subject weight), rather than just leaving it to the ear and personal opinion. If this can be done, even as an estimation, it may help to answer the questions like wallaby vs footstep.

I have also noticed a big difference in the way researchers and professionals handle evidence. I was watching an interview about the Skunk Ape Found in Florida on YouTube and while they found a trackway of an adult and juvenile with around 100 prints, we were shown only a single cast and they mentioned that next time they visit they should measure the trackway distances. A little too late I'm thinking. Compare the approach of professionals (who would have the necessary tools on hand) which would see the site fully documented, each track measured for width and length, diagrams with measurements of length of stride, length of trackway, axis of tracks with respect to each other as well as multiple casts (positions marked on diagram) with accompanying photographs - and you begin to see why a lot of the things researchers bring back are not even usable by professionals who have to do their analysis off-site like a cold case.

Check out the The Relict Hominoid Inquiry if you want to see the sort of treatment given by professionals in this subject.

The "relentless bombardment of trash from the United States"! Yes you are not wrong there, but there is also sufficient trash from Australia as well (without mentioning names). I spend a lot of wasted time looking at videos, checking out channels and finding them to be sensationalist click-bait, moving on. It's a process of elimination I guess. I don't watch Monster Hunters or Finding Bigfoot or those sorts of things anymore - it is a waste of time and will not accomplish anything except to skew your thinking when you are in the field or examining evidence. I have found a series of videos by Dr John Bindernagel to be interesting and I keep searching for more of that type from other professional researchers, downloading them to the PC along with research papers, etc for later reference.

To my mind, when we start treating the evidence correctly in terms of recording it for later analysis, only then will we start making some headway in understanding this phenomena.

DaveR wrote:

Lozza62 wrote:There certainly are a lot of differences between sightings but there are also similaries, just from reading the posts on this forum there are many diverse opinions on what they actually are.Reminds me of the fact that ten people can witness a crime and you will get ten differing answers to what actually happened.In my opinion we should look at the common threads between reports and start from there and considering there seems to be several types of yowies that may have also impact on what is reported eg one species could be aggressive and another passive leading to a contradiction.They certainly are an enigma.

It boils down to interpretation I think. There is no way of standardizing the interpretation of any suspected data. What one sees in a photograph others see as explainable tricks of shadow and light, what some hear as bipedal running and walking others hear as wallabys hopping or grazing. So I agree with you Lozza ask 10 different people... the contradictions that Tim highlights are simply a product of that.

This thread became, quite interestingly I add, quite broad in its conjectures. All I can suggest from my experience is everyone seems to formulate their opinions from there own research and experiences which again is subjective to interpretation and again we are on the mouse wheel. In regard to our australian research this confusion, which in many cases has turned into gleeful cynicism, is fueled in my opinion by the relentless bombardment of trash from the United States. Can you take anyone for their word anymore? Are they seeking fame and google cheques? Are they a wacko? Like I suggest its all part of the mousewheel.

The contradictions, for my extra 2 cents, are completly inspired by conjecture. I can see a fleeting moment of what fits the desciption of a yowie disappear behind a rock and because when I looked behind the rock it wasn't there, with enough mental gymnastics my research could leave me to believe yowies merge with rocks. What is sad for dooligal research is with the help of todays social media I can attract other people and convince them of that. Today's conjecture powered by the sometimes sheep on social media helps formulate a murky cloud that people pick and choose from like picking their opinions from vending machines.

I only bother with Yowie Hunters reports and the rare research video by Rusty.. I keep a loose eye on Todd Standing in North America who I find fascinating yet somehow tainted by the more strident campainers for truth and justice that infest the internet. Once again all adding to the contradictions, conjecture, and ultimately opinions that serve as fuel for the mouse wheel. I try and get out into the mountains at least once a week and have done since 2010. My opinion is after one glimpse, hundreds of hours of audio recordings and one, long lost, 8' tall image of eyeshine on a trail camera, is that they are hairy, humanlike and very accoustomed to utilizing their environment to remain concealed. Are they flesh and blood? In my opinion yes.. until someone proves to me otherwise. I am bounded by my experience which isn't everyones experience.

And thats about it. The rest is conjecture leading to contradiction. Is that a yowie bite or a yellowtailed cockatoos nibblings? Is that a yowie tree break or a beetle infested wind fall? If you believe youtube every marsupial scratching in the leaf litter is a yowie 'impession.. In closing I'll add the only thing I am truly convinced of is they can be audio recorded. Flesh and blood making noises and interacting with their surroundings. In my opinion Rusty is doing a fine job in this regard but more research is required in the field. Honestly the Yowie Hunters collection of witness audio reports clinch it alone. They are the only real source of getting a compsite sketch of the offenders.. the rest is conjecture leading to contradiction. Therin ends the rant.

Very true Dave about the youtube channels. Its not hard to take a photo of something or make a sadass hoax to present to the youtube masses every week who are clamouring for photos and video footage. If you know how to use a camera, video editor and upload something on youtube and call yourself a researcher.

I have a lot of respect for you and Rusty in particular as you dont make claims and dont tell us this or that is a yowie. Take your peeking figure on your channel. As far as im concerned that image is a yowie. Probably observing you from close range and having a peek as soon as he felt it was safe to do so. I know that is the type of conjecture and conclusion jumping you are talking about but you make no such claims that it is anything other than a peeking subject.

Same with Rusty. He rarely mentions the word yowie and prefers the term " subject even though he has some pretty good evidence that it is or could be. Imo this is the approach to take if you want to be taken seriously and people will take notice when you do get something more solid because of this approach.

Others will post any old c**p in an effort to amass hits and get advertising or whatever they do. They delete negative comnents debunking their finds and make all sorts of claims.

I too stick to the ayr and Mike Williams audio and video reports and take most anything else with a grain of salt but still get hooked by the occasoonal hoax or paeredoilia.

While i dont always agree and have my own theories and i do agree we shouldnt make assumptions i do believe there are certain..dare i say it..facts (!) that can be supported by an individuals experience.

For example from my encounter i can tell you yes they are very large, eyes appear to glow red, they can live on islands, they run on all fours as well as upright and hunched over, Theyre covered in hair except for their face, they have wrinkled or folded skin, they have a toxic smell as well as their own animal smell, theyre accompanied by smaller beings, they rip off branches and throw them to the ground etc etc.

Not exactly groundbreaking stuff and of course i cant prove it or expect anyone to believe it but they are facts to me at least and if anyone had bothered to ask at the time then we couldve given more descriptions and probably between me and my mate we couldve had an accurate sketch of the whole thing. Legs, arms , body , face etc.

Im sure someone will jump on and say that's my interpretation snd nothing more of it doesnt fit their description or belief system and thats fair enough.

I guess what im saying is that their are some facts out there and i dont think im a fool for accepting some of the more out there experiences people have claimed to have had. If im wrong then so be it.

Well said Yowie Bait!

Simon M wrote:Thanks, Tim.

I often feel like I write too much, or come across as being too 'strident' or assertive...but I'm not trying to be a smart arse or anything, I just don't think me sitting here making wild guesses is helpful to what AYR is trying to achieve.

People will believe and say what they want to, and it's their right to do so, but I feel I should clarify my position. I'm not suggesting anybody is more right than anyone else, or that anyone is wrong for believing what they choose to, I'm just establishing my own position so people know where I'm coming from.

If someone proves me wrong, I'm 100% okay with that - science is about learning and changing your opinion based on objectively established fact. If I am guessing I state it clearly, and I freely admit that I have no first hand experience with any of this stuff. I have never seen a Yowie, or anything remotely unusual.

I can accept that there's a lot I don't know - I think people are capable of a lot of stuff we ourselves have yet to understand. I think poltergeist activity may well be a psychokinetic projection of the human subconscious (we know parts of our brain are not used by the conscious mind, and do not know everything about the brain's capabilities, plus there's a lot of anecdotal evidence about psychic abilities which goes back into prehistory), or that certain locations may retain a 'recording' (due to magnetic fields? Ley lines?) of traumatic experiences that took place there which we experience as 'hauntings'...but I don't believe ghosts are the spirits of dead people trying to communicate with us; that's a choice I have made, and it's a belief. I have no evidence that proves the dead cannot communicate with the living. Some would strongly disagree, and that's fine too. We can all discuss these things as adults and that's why we're here - we are all more similar in our beliefs than different or we wouldn't be posting here.

Those beliefs alone disqualify me as a reputable source of info by any and all standards of normal scientific thinking, and mark me as someone who believes in parapsychology (which is strictly pseudoscience). Even mentioning poltergeists puts me in the 'lunatic fringe' basket. I'm well aware of this.

I think Yowies/Junjadees exist. I am 100% convinced that they do. I am dubious about the Dogmen thing. This is also a chosen belief. I have no proof of either, only a belief in the weight of evidence. There's a lot of evidence that suggests the presence of various forms of primate in Australia (and elsewhere), but I remain totally unconvinced when it comes to Dogmen...again, this is a choice I have made based on my own opinions.

So I also hold beliefs which are not based on factual evidence, and I accept that. I am not trying to put down anyone's beliefs, please understand that. I will always favour the overwhelming weight of evidence, though. Again, that's a choice I make.

I know some people readily accept the shape-shifting idea, but I cannot. I am convinced that these creatures can do things which can confuse us and even make us question our own five senses, but that's as much as I'm willing to state based on what we currently know.

Hi Simon M,
There is one thing I agree with you 100% and that's [ quote ].but I don't believe ghosts are the spirits of dead people trying to communicate with us; that's a choice I have made, and it's a belief. [unquote] Agreed, but my belief is probably very different from yours. The problem is that everyone has a theory on Bigfoot, Yowie, Dogman but none can be verified as factual and science offering zero support so I have no choice than to look at other possibilities. So many questions on these crytozoolgy creatures are asked that seem impossible to answer. Two of the most legitimate but mysterious questions is why have we not been able to capture one or found any dead bodies of these creatures? After all they are supposed to exist in their thousands yet no physical evidence. With no scientific or any other viable explanation I have an answer that more than satisfies my beliefs but would be totally contradictory to somebody else.

Moving on to the Dogman enigma I believe this to be far more fact-based than Bigfoot or Yowie. No one can deny the existence of the Cynocephali it is recorded history and I believe that Dogman may very well be a hybrid form of these beings originating from Nephilim miscegenation (without making this into a religious comment). I think if we start to analyse or circumscribe our explanations you will throw up more questions than you can ever hope to answer.

I know your comment is not directed to me this is just my opinion.

DaveR wrote:

Lozza62 wrote:There certainly are a lot of differences between sightings but there are also similaries, just from reading the posts on this forum there are many diverse opinions on what they actually are.Reminds me of the fact that ten people can witness a crime and you will get ten differing answers to what actually happened.In my opinion we should look at the common threads between reports and start from there and considering there seems to be several types of yowies that may have also impact on what is reported eg one species could be aggressive and another passive leading to a contradiction.They certainly are an enigma.

It boils down to interpretation I think. There is no way of standardizing the interpretation of any suspected data. What one sees in a photograph others see as explainable tricks of shadow and light, what some hear as bipedal running and walking others hear as wallabys hopping or grazing. So I agree with you Lozza ask 10 different people... the contradictions that Tim highlights are simply a product of that.

This thread became, quite interestingly I add, quite broad in its conjectures. All I can suggest from my experience is everyone seems to formulate their opinions from there own research and experiences which again is subjective to interpretation and again we are on the mouse wheel. In regard to our australian research this confusion, which in many cases has turned into gleeful cynicism, is fueled in my opinion by the relentless bombardment of trash from the United States. Can you take anyone for their word anymore? Are they seeking fame and google cheques? Are they a wacko? Like I suggest its all part of the mousewheel.

The contradictions, for my extra 2 cents, are completly inspired by conjecture. I can see a fleeting moment of what fits the desciption of a yowie disappear behind a rock and because when I looked behind the rock it wasn't there, with enough mental gymnastics my research could leave me to believe yowies merge with rocks. What is sad for dooligal research is with the help of todays social media I can attract other people and convince them of that. Today's conjecture powered by the sometimes sheep on social media helps formulate a murky cloud that people pick and choose from like picking their opinions from vending machines.

I only bother with Yowie Hunters reports and the rare research video by Rusty.. I keep a loose eye on Todd Standing in North America who I find fascinating yet somehow tainted by the more strident campainers for truth and justice that infest the internet. Once again all adding to the contradictions, conjecture, and ultimately opinions that serve as fuel for the mouse wheel. I try and get out into the mountains at least once a week and have done since 2010. My opinion is after one glimpse, hundreds of hours of audio recordings and one, long lost, 8' tall image of eyeshine on a trail camera, is that they are hairy, humanlike and very accoustomed to utilizing their environment to remain concealed. Are they flesh and blood? In my opinion yes.. until someone proves to me otherwise. I am bounded by my experience which isn't everyones experience.

And thats about it. The rest is conjecture leading to contradiction. Is that a yowie bite or a yellowtailed cockatoos nibblings? Is that a yowie tree break or a beetle infested wind fall? If you believe youtube every marsupial scratching in the leaf litter is a yowie 'impession.. In closing I'll add the only thing I am truly convinced of is they can be audio recorded. Flesh and blood making noises and interacting with their surroundings. In my opinion Rusty is doing a fine job in this regard but more research is required in the field. Honestly the Yowie Hunters collection of witness audio reports clinch it alone. They are the only real source of getting a compsite sketch of the offenders.. the rest is conjecture leading to contradiction. Therin ends the rant.

Excellent rant, thank you.
The below image perhaps sums it all up a bit (just transfer 'News' with Yowies and the News Outlets with Sasquatch 'Gurus' and it fits this discussion)

Very revelant Wolf. Nailed it. Thank you.

Foxes have been observed walking backwards in their own tracks even erasing them as they go.

DaveR wrote:Well said Yowie Bait!

Thanks Dave. I reckon your idea of "open research" i think you said, is a good way to go. People can see your results as you get them and experience the outcomes, if any as you recieve them. Keeps interested parties in the loop and no room for shenanigans. A very honest approach.

These experiments researchers are doing with audio , height and weight analysis such as Rusty is doing is pioneering stuff. Replacing speculation with proven science and mathematics is one way to remove at least some of the doubt from the situation . As technology improves so will the results.