Yowiehunters Forum

Gosh!! And there's a new book that goes with it as well, what a stroke of luck that was!?!?

This is why the the whole bigfoot/yeti/yowie thing loses all credibility. The race to make money from it!!!

One day, maybe, there'll be some genuine 'non-biased' research, i.e. 'null hypothesis'.

doctorscream wrote:Bill, Let me do the modern math for you. Last I heard, Franzoni had ordered 50 total books printed. Since the book reflects the paranormal aspects of the bigfoot, they do not go fast due to the unlikelihood of finding a lucid bigfoot researcher of sufficient field experience and open mind. At $60 a pop, subtract $30 for printing costs, divide that into maybe 10000 hours research and writing, and you get 15 lincoln head pennies per hour. I can shovel horse poop and get paid more than than. In think Kewaunee's book has about 200 copies in print. He gets $1 each for those. Assuming the same hours invested, the math works out to 2 lincoln head cents per hour. Which may be enough to pay for the electricity that powered his computer. Which leads back to the standard question, "So Kewaunee, how do you make money writing books when your expenses equal the revenues?" To which Kewaunee replies, "Volume young grasshoppa, volume!"

Yup, that made sense.

Yeah... things that make you go Hmmmmm..............

That, Doc, was one of your most amazing posts yet.

I think the horse poop would be of vastly more value than the book. Why?

1. It doesn't take 10,000 hours to produce.
2. Horse poop is proven to exist.
3. It's good for your garden; where
4. You can grow other things that are real (and taste good).

Of course, it does come from a horse's @rse!!!

Regardless of what your opinions are of Henry, he’s a nice guy who has some very interesting concepts that he learnt from the Native Indians. Some of which make sense. I doubt he wrote the book for money, as he is very passionate about the subject and at the end of the day, he doesn’t cause much trouble for others.

I just don’t think it’s wise to discount anything. Real researchers keep an open eye to all possibilities. There certainly HAVE been some unexplainable things that have occurred on Expeditions before.

Having been one of many within our group that has been left scratching their heads after weird experiences out there, I would much prefer to keep an eye both inside AND outside the box......... What is the point of being skeptic all the time - if you keep that attitude - you will never learn anything because your mind, eyes and ears are closed instead of expanded!


DMH

Dean Harrison wrote:What is the point of being skeptic all the time - if you keep that attitude - you will never learn anything because your mind, eyes and ears are closed instead of expanded!DMH

Dean,

You (and others) seem to have the strange idea that skeptics have closed minds. Nothing could be further from the truth. That a skeptic spends time on this forum is proof enough that we are open-minded. Being a skeptic is not being in instant denial of everything that is posted (see my comment to Skeet's encounter).

Being skeptic means that we don't automatically ascribe anything out of the ordinary to yowies/yeti/bigfoot/paranormal etc. We simply demand better evidence and proof to support an extraordinary claim.

I have read numerous books and watched countless documentaries on 'open-minded topics'. I have spent plenty of time in remote places and I have not yet encountered anything that causes me to say definitely that I encountered a yowie, extraterrestrial, ghost, spirit, orb, etc.

Having said that, I have had a number of things happen to me or in my presence that I have absolutely no explanation for. Given that there is no explanation I do not try and explain it without adequate evidence/proof. I simply accept it as being strange. I'll post an example of a strange experience I had at some time in the near future when I have enough time to re-create the event for you in words and pictures (in the Other Interesting Phenomena forum).

The 'close-minded' argument can equally be levelled at 'Believers'. It seems every time you go out into the bush and hear crash, knock, snap or see a stick structure you automatically ascribe it to a yowie (which has never been proven to exist despite the thousands of sightings). That is the same definition of being close-minded that you level at skeptics. Forming an opinion in the absence of sound evidence when there are many possible causes of the same event.

As a skeptic, I accept that there is a possibility that yowies exist. I believe that it is a higher probability that they don't exist or that they once did and don't anymore. However my mind is still open to the possibility that they exist today. To not accept that possibility would be 'closed minded'.

If you have had a fight with a yowie then that's both your good and bad luck. You're in the same club as George Gray. It's a very small club and one that not too many people would want to join. If you are telling the truth about that encounter then I fully understand the frustration that you would have with the likes of me, however, you equally have to understand that I cannot believe your story until there is something better than plaster casts and bruise photos to persuade me.

I genuinely look forward to the day that you or anybody else proves the yowie to be true and I'll be very happy for you and be the first to congratulate your perseverance. Until that day comes the yowie does not exist, it is folklore. Very interesting folklore otherwise I wouldn't waste my time here.

I would ask, out of respect, that people of all beliefs on this forum stop throwing the 'closed mind' accusation around. It serves no purpose and is generally incorrect whichever way it is used. It's simply another antagonistic barb that keeps lighting fires on this forum.

I can guarantee you that I am as open-minded as anyone, I just demand a higher standard of evidence/proof. Since I don't know you personally I cannot take your word anymore than I can take Doctorscream's word or that of a terribly nice gentleman from Nigeria who is apparently trying to send me a large sum of money.

I hope you understand the message I'm trying to convey in this post. If AYR wants to be successful then it has be tolerant of all views not just those that fit with the inner circle. Skeptics aren't the enemy. The enemy is the hoaxers, the trollers, the nutters and the spammers.

Happy hunting, I look forward to your future exploits...

Good points BTC.

There are Skeptics and there are Skeptics.............

Your a thinking Skeptic that has an interest and wants to know more, which is great, however there are also non sensible Skeptics that make a point of being unreasonable, rude and blinded.
I remember speaking to Mark Newbridge (SP?), who at the time (90’s), was the 2ic of the Australian Skeptic Society. Of course he was taking me on....... He and others within their group were to maintain scepticism about ALL matters, no matter what was brought forward, otherwise if they thought rationally about what is presented, they would not have a little club with secret handshakes and funny hats. I’m sure a club like that would make them feel very special and ‘wanted’. I’m sure a hug would have done instead.... ?

Anyways, it turns out that Mark HIMSELF had a Yowie encounter at Daylesford Victoria! (my... my....). The darn thing came running out of the forest and was standing right in front of him! “Then why attack me them Mark, why dispute me when you have seen one with your own eyes?”. His reply was “Because I am a the 2ic of the Australian Skeptic Society”. “But Mark, you saw it youself!” “Yes, but I did not have a team of professional photographers taking detailed photographs from every angle of it and even if I did, that is not proof, only a body on a steel table being dissected by scientists is proof. No matter what I saw, the Yowie does NOT exist”.

Now......... when your dealing with a mastermind like this, you can’t win. There is no reasoning and rationality to these people. Their role in life is the easy one – just say NO to everything. Ours is the hard and steep path – we actually get our hands dirty, search for the truth, do the research, the travelling, the interviews, spend the money, do the documentation and the list goes on and on and on and on........

Saying ‘No’ to everything is a weak copout.

Most “Skeptics”, never get their butts out from behind their desks and have never spent a day out there researching – yet what? They deem themselves to be EXPERT enough to discount the findings of the people who are out there in the field experiencing all this ( just to speak shallowly ). Yet they can sit there and simply say with a smirk – “No, no, no.... that never happened”, when they have no idea. They have NO experience, yet they think they know it all far beyond any researcher who has actually been involved in years and years. How does that work?

I’m not only referring to the boffins at the A.S.S. (What does that spell? How fitting.), I also refer to many ordinary people who have a similar mindset. Probably never allowed outside to play as a child – a lot safer indoors. All they are to me are time wasters. Be constructive and get some experience under your belt before coming out with your guns drawn and gums flapping.
BTC, again, no referring to you. I just get sick and tired of people who say “No”, when they don’t know the facts, never walked a mile in our shoes, yet PRETEND they ‘just know better’ for their ego’s sake.

There has been a few people on this Forum as of late that I am becoming rather sick of lately – all new people, not our regular crew.

I banned that fool Muppets today and deleted a few of his worthless posts. If he wants to be rude to people, he can do that on someone else’s Board. There will probably be a couple more to go soon.

DMH

Dean Harrison wrote:I banned that fool Muppets today

Good, there is a god (it's a figure of speech!) that was long time coming...

There has been a few people on this Forum as of late that I am becoming rather sick of lately – all new people, not our regular crew.

I banned that fool Muppets today and deleted a few of his worthless posts. If he wants to be rude to people, he can do that on someone else’s Board. There will probably be a couple more to go soon.

The forum has been in a downward spiral since the skeptic crusaders came on board with hopelessly flawed arguments posted by the pseudo-skeptic (I'm only referring to the pseudo-skeptics not skeptics in general)

They can have the power to bewilder most unwary posters. And in a nut shall that's what attracts them to troll boards such as this. "TO FEED THE EGO" As we have all seen in some of the heated threads, they don't have to speak Truth to bewilder and come out looking "victorious."

Games of semantics, creative ad hominem, and the deliberate misstatements of postings are quite effective and the most commonly used tactics in his EGO battles. As we have all seen here over the last few months. They will try and daze the target with a well-placed quote from Carl Sagan ("Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence!"), and will try and send you reeling with the words "You can't prove a negative!", then slash his throat with Occam's Razor ("The simplest explanation is also the most likely!"). blaa blaa blaa you get the picture..

These ordinarily sound scientific platitudes are used as the ultimate "get out of jail free" cards for skeptic who them selves will have no answers to an inconvenient questions and will only answer you with more mind numbing question.

If we can only accept things in terms of what we already understand and has been proven by science, then science is no longer an open system. It collapses into the worst sort of mindless dogma, and no genuinely new discoveries are possible.

Anyway, most of you already know my thoughts about the above and this will be the last thing I will say about the subject. Most (not all) of the people I know who belong to such societies are loud, arrogant, angry, and cynical and if we all thought like them we'd all still be living in damp caves eating grubs for dinner.

I prefer to spend time with people who are quiet, humble, calm and hopeful.

Urrr...I can almost here the serenity..thanks Dean

Thanks Doc interesting show

Thank you Strange2. Much appreciated words indeed.

I was beginning to receive a headache each time I read a string of their tiresome attitudes and condescending replies to good people who have an honest and healthy interest in these subjects outside these "Sceptic stirrers" closed shrivelled minds. They are not interested in decent and productive conversations, only tongue in cheek antagonistic debates in which nobody is better off besides their own ego's.

As you say, it was far better before they all came riding into Town. Having said that - we all know they never last long.

DMH

"I just come here because I enjoy looking at your world. It is fascinating how you people think...... I started out as a friendly skeptic, but you weren't interested, so the gloves are off, dimwits.""

Might as well keep your gloves on, Marius. Sigh... Your typing privileges here, yet again, have been temporary. Back to being a voyeur for you!! Asta La Vista Baby!!

Hi All

Well what can I say. I suspect that those sceptics have done a lot worse that just bad mouthing on this forum.

My web site and others I webmaster for have recently been severely hacked. And I do mean severely hacked.

I have only just cleaned up the mess.

The hacking occurred almost at the same time that Mary Use and Marivs were banned from the board.

I have tracked down all of the relevant IP addresses and am following all of the leads.

They have used a US reverse IP web site that these persons did the hacking through.

These people were very capable and knew exactly what they were doing. They hacked my password, downloaded all of my files and then inserted a JavaScript that redirected any visitors to a virus site that uploaded viruses onto the visitors PC. This goes way past bad mouthing. This is criminal action. Make no mistakes.

I will find the culprits and heaven help them when I do. I have investigated this stuff before and have succeeded.

Any help in information about Muppets, Marivs and Mary Use would be greatly appreciated.

Regards

Big Cats

Skeptics aren't the enemy. The enemy is the hoaxers, the trollers, the nutters and the spammers.

Your dead right Bill...
But... the problem is..there are trollers/nutters/spammers who think that because they can mock and type at the same time they are brilliant geniuses..and they were calling themselves sceptics..
I have enjoyed kicking into a few here over time..it was not hard..
Those twats were not sceptics, just egocentric cynics who couldnt argue or think...or just act $%$#@ normal.
The posts we have deleted...were just cringe inducing..
I just felt sorry for the writer(s)....
You Bill...have class!!

Mike

Big Cats wrote:These people were very capable and knew exactly what they were doing. They hacked my password, downloaded all of my files and then inserted a JavaScript that redirected any visitors to a virus site that uploaded viruses onto the visitors PC. This goes way past bad mouthing. This is criminal action. Make no mistakes.

What a low act. Get em Cats.

Any help in information about Muppets, Marivs and Mary Use would be greatly appreciated.

Hey Big Cats,

Muppets, Marivs and Mary Use are the same person...

Thanks Strange2

I suspected that!

I have all of the IP addresses. So, basically if I can convince the Police, State or Feds to help, I 've got him. He has broken the law and who knows what else he has been up to. Lots I hope.

Daniel - I will get him for you too.

Big Cats