Yowiehunters Forum

Hi Yowie in the hat

Given that 1 in 4 people will / or have / or has had a mental illness, there is a high likelyhood that a percentage of those that have reported may be affected by some type of Mental Illness be it, Bi Polar Affective, Psychosis ( either drug induced or organic) ,Depression or one of the many listed in the DSM IV, having said that..having some type of Mental Illness does not make you an unreliable witness

BUT, the people from this Forum who do most of the face to face interviewing are quite skilled and would more than likely pick up any of the more obvious signs and symptoms, we have had several interviews where it was obvious there were some " issues " those reports tend to go in to the " a bit Suss " box


cheers

Just one more thing.

Even cases with multiple witnesses may be called into question. I refer to the condition called Folie a deux (French for "A madness shared by two", but may include more people).

In this condition one person concieves of a deluded idea and the other individual accepts this idea entirely. The two have a strong relationship, with the person concieving of the delusion being more powerful within the relationship than the person who accepts the idea.

This condition is exceedingly rare, but dont be surprised if it is used to dismiss what seems like a good sighting.

Hey Yowie in the hat

What continues to astound me with this subject is the consistency of description, be it from a farmer, a policeman, housewife, teacher, etc.

Also i meet a large number of indigenous people in my job, many many old indigenous people also give me the same description of this creature, its behaviour and other relevent info, if this is an halucination, then it is shared by thousands upon thousands of people around this country ( some of who have never seen or had access to the internet)....halucination..unlikely.

The belief in the existance of this creature is also shared by many highly qualified science people, biologists, anthropologists and zoologists...........Mental Illness??

Sure lots of people in this country have some type of Mental Illness..( i know because its my job) but i do not think that mental illness or some type of Drug Induced Psychosis is a reasonable conclusion.

cheers

Well said Toppy, I agree.

It's not my suggestion that mental illness is the only explanation for a sighting.

I simply wanted to point out that unless intoxication or mental illness are excluded then people who dont want to believe will assume that they are the cause.

Hey yowie in the hat

I see where you’re coming from but like Tops has said I don’t think we have anything to worry about in regards to what people think, if thats what they want to do to explain sightings then let them. Putting it down to intoxication or mental illness is a pretty lame logical explanation, there are countless sightings across Australia and all over the world. For someone who doesn’t believe to say its all mass hallucination or intoxication is pretty ridiculous to say the least.

But that's just my view.

An excellent thread, thanks for posting.

Firstly we should probably point out that if anyone reading this thread has or believes they or someone they know has a mental health or substance problem, please find help. There are many support agencies througout the country who are there just to help you, or them, out of a bad place. Don't assume you can "talk yourself" or even talk them "out of it", or that "hardening up", will help. Our profound suicide and self harm rate indicates a lot of people are trying this approach, and getting nowhere.

Back on topic...I don't believe the OP is saying that ALL sightings are because people are mentally ill (either in a chronic or a transitory sense) or under the influence. As they state " I want to start this post by saying that I do not dismiss all people who have seen a Yowie as crazy or impaired in some way.


Unfortunately, much as having a profound cognitive impairment makes one an unreliable witness in a court of law, the same must be said for the court of "Science".

Of some interest also is the persistant belief held by certain sections of the drug using community that certain substances (especially the harmala alkaloids, the Tropanes, various tryptamines and other indoles) in fact simply provide portholes through which the user may, at times, experience an entirely otherworldly sphere of activity and goings on. There is an interesting crossover along these lines, where the "Mantis Beings" of DMT users correlate neatly with those reported by alleged extraterrestrial abductees.

Many indigenous people, and especially those with a rich mythology of local spirit beings, rely on psychotropic agents (or techniques) by the learned "medicine man" for interacting with and learning from these beings. Widespread use of these substances is generally taboo as far as the non-initiated goes. Ott, McKenna, Shultz and co have all researched in great depth the phenomena of shamanic travel, interaction and viewing among people of Mexico and the Amazon basin. Many illustrations made by these "shamans" in fact depicted things they cuold never possibly have seen, and to this day remain quite the mystery.

Harmaline, incidentally was known for quite a while as "Telepathine" because of this phenomena and is believed to have been the subject of much research by various govt agencies during the "ULTRA" period of our history.

All that aside... it must be rememberd that certain drugs , for example alcohol, cannabis, tobacco are very much part of many people's "outdoors culture". Trek up the mountain and blow a spliff at sunrise. Crack a cold one when you reach your favourite spot. Stop for a "gasper" every so often while you get your bearings. I believe unfortunately many probably quite remarkable accounts simply never surface because a person does not wish to lie about their usage but knows they will be passed off as a crackpot if they do. In fact, most reasonable people in good frame of mind can easily knock off a few beers, a few tokes and still be pretty damned clear on what is real, and what isn't - but we must of course take the exceptions into account also.

Whilst it is certainly known for many of our most commonly used drugs to carry some chance of delusional or halluncinatory episodes, most of em, as used most of the time by most of their adherents, are not very likely to cause anything like a true loss of touch with reality. They can very much assist an already over-active imagination to take itself a little more seriously, which is why some see limited use as ritual sacraments.

Visionary and truly hallucinagenic agents such as Mescaline, DMT, Scopolamine, Psilocybin and Ergot-alkaloids are almost always regarded as being entirely for JUST that kind of activity. though used within a cultural context, these are almost always restricted to certain ritual occasions and those using them understand that much of what they derive is purely symbolic, may require weeks or even months of meditation to actually decrypt let alone apply to the tribe.

Of some interest is the presence of certain species such as Duboisia and also Ergot infestation of common plants such as Paspalum can lead to intoxication of a completely unintended kind. Use as tinder or fuel, presence in campgrounds, brushing though foliage especially on humid or hot days may result in accidental ingestion. These compounds in particular are notorious for their completely realistic hallucinations (which is to say, true hallicinations).

Also of interest is that many people on long car trips, or on the water use scopolamine-based motion sickness products. These have been abused by some users for the purposes of their notoriously immersive effects (many, many frightening accounts on sites such as http://www.erowid.org) and even many "sensible" people end up somewhat effected by them especially after a few days of taking them.

Now... druggies and space elves aside it must also be remembered that many people prone to abusing these agents, as well as many people with certain forms of mental illness, sleep disorders and alcoholism are much more likely to be for example awake at 3am, or bushwalking on their own, to have studied the paranormal, the occult and the mystic and also to be naturally prone to taking the evidence of their own senses and instincts as the only kind of guidance they can really rely on.

The town drunk is rarely distracted by issues such as pressing work issues, family responsibilities or "having to be back in town by Monday morning" and so in addition to being more likely to "See things" in the first place (real or not) they are also more likely to have the time to discuss it, are less concerned with issues of credibility, and are by their very nature that little bit less in touch with the mundane, day to day humdrum mentality most people take for granted.

Obviously... it's very much a matter of belief and culturally embedded notions.

One culture's crazy drunk is another culture's wise man. Interestingly, despite scanty reports of Corkwood brews and the odd Pituri binge, Australia has almost nil history in an indigenous sense of using any profoundly psychotropic agents. Despite this, we have no shortage of mythological beings, big rocks seen as once living beings, and the like.

Of course - liking a drink or even the odd spot of the old electric lucerne does not automatically make you a poor witness (almost every copper standing up in a courtroom has probably had a few bevvies in the last couple of months, they still listen to them). Neither does a history of use of other more potent agents. I do not believe too many people would class everyone from Tim Leary, Winston Churchill, Barack Obama to almost all of our writers, filmmakers, musicians and high ranking government staffers as "deluded" personalities based purely on their varying degrees of substance use or abuse. Plenty of sensible, productive, healthy and sane people make use of these things - unfortunately, but typically, only those making problems for the rest of us are exposed to the public eye.

For every dreddlocked, Marley-shirted hepcat that has had 30 bongs since breakfast, there are a good number of normal people who simply enjoy a good time andotherwise keep themselves and their lives in order.

I guess we should make mention somewhere along these lines that using any drug to excess especially on your own in isolated areas is a recipe for disaster best avoided. Even in company, or on expedition it is not a bad idea to have a few "designated dull people" to take care of things like weird noises, lost gear, fire safety, emergency driving back into civilisation and first aid.

And I shudder at how many people I see knocking off three bottles of wine in two hours over a bbq with the kids, and then spend an hour driving back into town... not very sensible. Well, not if you like your kids in their naturally "stuck together and able to walk and feed themselves" state anyway.

Nature can be pretty finger lickin good without any secret herbs and spices And being altered may not mean that what you are experiencing is not actually just something very much out of the ordinary anyway.

MAN ! This thread is enough to drive me to drink , now where did i leave that Bundy oh I can't remember , maybe the effects of short term memory loss !




I AM NOT LOST I AM WHERE I WANT TO BE ............

wow what an Interesting Topic....i have seen these Guys on 3 occasions now...i was not Drunk or Stoned or on medication...MAYBE some People are Drunk or Stoned...when they see these Big Guys but think of HOW quick they would Sober up after seeing a Thing that's 8 to 9 feet tall & Built like a Brick s#@t house...Looking at you....I would sober up real quick...lol

Then again cant speak for every one..TC Guys

Can tell you right now if i was drunk when i saw one of the big fella's i'd sober up quick smart and run like hell

the Big Fella flogged it, Al

I guess at the end of the day, people that are bit different in the head, or a bit loaded on something, are still just as likely to see and accurately describe an experience... same way as entirely lucid, sane and sober people sometimes have paradigm shattering experiences they were not expecting.

Imagine the looks the first bloke to describe the platypus would've got!

"yeah, it has a bill like a duck... but flippers and claws... and spurs like a rooster. It has fur, but lays eggs, spend all day in the water but has no gills, eats yabbies and gives milk"

I can see his mates now... "look out, Old Mate's started early!"

Which should be "crazier" ..the person reporting a "monster" or the "researchers" following the story up.

Thats a point I was going to bring up. Wouldn't proclaiming that you saw a "giant hairy monster" in the bush make you look insane in the first place?

Perfect example of this, in film form. The character Quint from Jaws - seems as sane as the next man until he sets eyes on the giant bastard shark. Cue insanity.

So, I think this entire thing is one huge catch 22.

This is why I think its important to follow-up on reports and possibly even have a face-to-face discussion. If the character does have questionable motives, mental illness or certain other issues then a physical follow-up will usually unveil these traits.

In saying that, someone with a good knowledge base of the subject could certainly fool a researcher.... it is a possibility..... but I think the overwhelming majority of sightings are genuine. Many of the witnesses seek anonymity and aren`t particular interested in going public with what they have witnessed. This kind of behaviour is the opposite to what I would expect from someone seeking attention through faked or hoaxed material!