Yowiehunters Forum

Authorities in Darwin are on the lookout for a feral lioness, after three reports of a big cat being spotted crossing the Stuart Highway.

The sightings late Sunday night sparked a quick police search and a check at Crocodylus, a local wildlife park just a few minutes from the scene.

According to the NT News, three cars pulled over while the animal crossed the highway in front of them at Pinelands, a small suburb about 20km from Darwin.

''I often get reports of dingoes in the area, which are a similar colour but a completely different size,'' said a spokeswoman for NT Police.

Police found no trace of the creature.

Chief scientist at Crocodylus, Charlie Manolis, told AAP he took the sightings seriously, but both lions at the park were found to be secure.

He said that ''not in a gazillion years'' could a lion have escaped its enclosure and then voluntarily returned and been present when checked.

Manolis said because three different people had reported seeing a lion, it was likely something was roaming around.

''Whether there is a large dog or a beastie out there that looks like a lion, we would like to find out any information about what it really is,'' he said.

Crocodylus is the only wildlife park in the Northern Territory that houses lions.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/ ... -Territory

Hi Mike

I don't know a bloody thing about cats or big cats they get up my nose so to speek.
If it was about 20km from the Crocodylus.Can a big cat in season bring in a big cat with it's smell from 20Km +..?

Wow Mike

This great news! 3 reports! 3 cars! WHat will the govt say i wonder "ermmm it was a politician in a lion suit"


Putting jokes aside what will this mean now? is this one of the most reliable incidents we've had yet?

prob bugga up the greenie side of tourism. the sweet soft benign aussie bush just developed a severe case of testorone. and that will ignight passion within the hunting fraterinity. me im with the latter. ken

second thought. are the yanks making any movies up north. it may be the mgm lion. althought some time ago an article appeared in one of our gun mags. a bloke had shot a pigmy hippo. why i dont know. think a propery owner died and his private zoo got loose. anyone remember or can quote the article for us. ken

Hi ken

Here's that story:-Pygmy hippo shot in NT
http://www.ntnews.com.au/article/2009/1 ... tnews.html

I don't know if Tipperary Station had big cats.It looks like they had rhinoceroses, hippopotamuses, giraffes, zebras and deer.

As i said 6 months ago, there's more than just a pigmy hippo escaped from that private zoo, one of the ex-workers from the property stated catorgorically that he knew of at least 12 escapes over several years.

would i be surprised if this lion is from there...not at all.

i have tried to track down the 3 car load of witnesses...but no luck, 2 cars were heading south

g,day yowie mrx. rgr (roger) that. that was the article tks mate. have always wondered what else the bloke had that hasnot been mentioned. point of interest to all, back in the 60,s 70,s you were allowed to have exotic cats for pets. a lion from victoria cost $5grand back then we thought about getting one for a unit mascot. then they banned them. ken

Hi Ken , do you by any chance know where i can look to find some info on them being allowed as pets back than

WHat im after is the rules & regulations of keeping one.

Does anyone on here know anyone, or anyone who knew someone who had one as a pet???? Yikes i had no idea

gday horserider negative to your ques. do remember that they could be purchased from victoria and as i mentioned. the cost. if i can remember where we found out about them ill give u a heads up. ken

The yowie Mrx wrote:Hi Mike
I don't know a bloody thing about cats or big cats they get up my nose so to speek.
If it was about 20km from the Crocodylus.Can a big cat in season bring in a big cat with it's smell from 20Km +..?

Smell..possibly..right wind etc..but i think the big thing would be sounds..Bullens lions used to "chat" to a private animal park`s lions which were at least 10 km`s away..

Ken wrote:point of interest to all, back in the 60,s 70,s you were allowed to have exotic cats for pets. a lion from victoria cost $5grand back then we thought about getting one for a unit mascot.

Hi Ken... .we have never found any records/legislation/articles/evidence etc that the general public was ever able to legally own exotic cats as pets in any state in Australia in at least the last 100 years..though I am sure some people did keep animals like these around in the 1950`s..
Some very rich and powerful people (on rare occassions)have managed to get around that problem ..possibly using a private zoo classification.
There might be some information we dont know about of course...and if anyone can point us to it, we would appreciate it.

Mike thats the info i was after, great, what about smugglers??? Any reports on smugglers?

Mike Williams wrote:Bullens lions used to "chat" to a private animal park`s lions which were at least 10 km`s away..[/b]

Circuses. Very good point. How many circuses / travelling shows have there been with big cats? What happened to these privately owned cats when travelling circuses closed? and would be the easiest, not responsible, but easiest way in Australia to dispose of them in the 'olden' days. Remote place... Run free my lovely... Just perhaps.

horserider wrote:Mike thats the info i was after, great, what about smugglers??? Any reports on smugglers?

There are anecdotal reports of smuggled cats...everyone I tried to follow up was either too old/uncheckable or..if modern..fizzled into nothing.
I assume people owned these animals here iillegally as pets.
They have in every other country on earth..

AustralopithecineOz wrote:

Circuses. Very good point. How many circuses / travelling shows have there been with big cats? What happened to these privately owned cats when travelling circuses closed? and would be the easiest, not responsible, but easiest way in Australia to dispose of them in the 'olden' days. Remote place... Run free my lovely... Just perhaps.[/quote wrote:
Yes AustralopithecineOz..very easy for them in the old days..but today is no different in many respects.
If a exotic cat escaped for instance..it can be listed as "death by natural causes" and listed as buried with the correct paperwork of course.
As far as we can tell.. in most states of oz..its a trust system...no one from the depts goes and checks the dead body...every single time.
I see no reason why a circus would be any different..
And..NSW DPi had a case of a lioness found eating a sheep next to a road outside of Broken Hill in 1985....it was shot dead by police.
No one from the govt depts investigated this...no one was charged..nothing was done..
The minister at the time used words to the effect of "...it was bizarre.."
So..if you contacted the dept..and asked them if they have ever investigated hard evidence of any large felids roaming our bush..they can answer..in the best orwellian double speak..that they have neither seen or investigated hard evidence of any exotic felids..
Of course they have not..they did not bother to investigate it..
So..they dont accept primary evidence of exotic felids..and they most certainly dont accept secondary evidence or anecdotal reports.
They often use another cute trick.
You can ask them about something specific..,(the person answering you after several months) only has to reply to your question..okay..but the catch is..their reply does not have to do with the question you asked.
So..if you respond that Mr brown did not answer your question..mr green says..Mr brown responded..the question/case is closed.
And you are back to the same question you started with.
I poked the dpi several years ago through acts within the range that ICAC can investigate.
We showed them an original document..we then showed them how it had been altered..and then presented to the premier(without being signed off by the dept head as legally required)..we even showed them which staff member falsified the data.
ICAC (who ignored the simple paper trail we showed them)wrote to the staff member who fiddled the books..
The staff member told them he was unaware of anyone manipulating data..
"case" closed.

Thanks Mike. Glad to see someone pursues this issue. Sounds like they've got their moves down pat. I've mentioned this on another thread but for clarity here I'll let you know that I have personally seen, only the rear half I admit, of a lioness/puma/mountain lion in the Bondo State Forest between Canberra and Tumut. So I know they are in our forests. So why should I doubt another honestly reported sighting. Really, when a big cat runs through in front of you you will easily identify a nearly waist high animal. I also think how they got here, and the government would be idiots not to accept they exist, is I think in some respects irrelevant. How long does a big cat live? are there breeding pairs? How long would it take a population to establish? How remote and vast is their new habitat? Feral pumas... imagine that. As for the death certificates... What is the fine for losing a big cat in each state? If they are licensed there would be legislation and if there is legislation there would be a fine involved. Who wants to pay a huge fine or recovery expedition that may take months or even years? If the authorities can't oversee the implementation of their own legislation relating to the licencing really what hope is there? A further question perhaps the minister should be demanding a little more 'fearlessness' in reporting the obvious from his directorate?

Thanks Mike. Glad to see someone pursues this issue.

I agree, Mike and Ruby have taken on a massive amount of effort and time in both research (field and archival)and in publication of information. I don't know if what we see are native, or feral (From some perspectives, dingos are considered non native also.... so there may be some clouding of that issue). I do know the response to public concerns are less than stellar from some quarters.

I also think how they got here, and the government would be idiots not to accept they exist, is I think in some respects irrelevant.

I have to agree with you for the most part there Dave !! At this point, it doesn't matter how it happened, the "what do we do from here" attitude would seem to me to be a better policy. Identify, Quantify and Remediate as circumstances require. I don't know what all of that would entail, but if an out of control feral population is allowed to flourish, it follows high pressure will be put on native animal populations in the same limited ecosystem. Obviously, this can become as much a budgetary challenge as it is a science challenge.

You ask all the correct questions, I think. The problem is, who listens until it's too late or there is a serious social encounter that devolves into an attack? Farmers have been reporting suspicious stock attacks for a very long time. Hopefully, I taste like a sour tough piece of leather !!!

Cheers

NoPolys

NoPolys wrote:

but if an out of control feral population is allowed to flourish, it follows high pressure will be put on native animal populations in the same limited ecosystem. Obviously, this can become as much a budgetary challenge as it is a science challenge.

Hi NoPolys, I'm surprised someone looking for a thesis wouldn't be plotting out the probable course of a new feral carnivore species on Australia's ecosystem. Someone, somewhere must be Correlating birthrate projections and perhaps even worse case scenarios. Theres enough circumstantial evidence to warrant it. As for old leather... unfortunately I think a hiker miles from nowhere would make a convenient feed regardless of toughness

AustralopithecineOz wrote: Hi NoPolys, I'm surprised someone looking for a thesis wouldn't be plotting out the probable course of a new feral carnivore species on Australia's ecosystem. Someone, somewhere must be Correlating birthrate projections and perhaps even worse case scenarios. Theres enough circumstantial evidence to warrant it. As for old leather... unfortunately I think a hiker miles from nowhere would make a convenient feed regardless of toughness

Unfortunately, with the current levels of (accepted) feral animals, there's probably enough 'give' in the figures that you could hide a population of animals that fit pretty closely to an existing category - ie: faunal surveys might indicate a high level of predation from feral animals, but nothing necessarily indicative of feral cats and panthers rather than just lots of feral cats...

I'm looking at a few other areas anyway - population genetics, etc.

forestguy wrote:
Unfortunately, with the current levels of (accepted) feral animals, there's probably enough 'give' in the figures that you could hide a population of animals that fit pretty closely to an existing category - ie: faunal surveys might indicate a high level of predation from feral animals, but nothing necessarily indicative of feral cats and panthers rather than just lots of feral cats...

I'm looking at a few other areas anyway - population genetics, etc.

Thanks forest guy I agree with you. Easily hide a population. Problem I see is if there is a breeding population its only a matter of time till their numbers multiply and sightings become more frequent. Perhaps then one will be photographed conclusively, shot or becomes road kill. With our vastness I don't see that happening for a considerable time though. Let us know what you come up with with your research. Its all part of a puzzle I reckon

Given what I understand about the current methods of gathering raw data and of statistical analysis of faunal survey raw data by academics or public service, you may have a very valid point FG !!

Currently, it seems if a survey finds evidence of an out of place population (native animal or feral animal) the information is deemed contaminated sampling, statistically insignificant (read that as dropped from the reporting), or hidden in the footnotes of the documentation.

As it happens, earlier today I was talking to a friend who is a wildlife biologist type. Among other topics, he was explaining the current difficulties involved in field surveys. It seems one of the largest challenges is getting the survey methodology past the ethics committee. A live capture and release survey recently took 9 months to get approved. Because of the perceived difficulties, many surveys are being conducted in ways to allow faster approval, but with larger SD's (Standard Deviations). Due to this, some animal survey numbers often don't seem to corolate with the "approved" population numbers in many areas, according to him. This easily accounts for larger (or smaller) than reported animal populations as well as hidden populations within the survey area.

It seems going out into the bush and looking is still the best practice method to finding what you are looking for .

Cheers

NoPolys