Yowiehunters Forum

G’day Scarts,

I am not totally sure where you are going with this thread, other than reflecting upon past experiences involving another Australian hoaxer. All that I can offer is support, as it is very difficult for anyone to see through the deceit of someone who is very skilled at it.

I fully respect Jeff Meldrum’s stance against established academia. For most of us who are known, the general ridicule can be very harsh to bear, but within your own profession, it must be intolerable? His comment “You’re looking for a moving needle in a haystack” reminds me of Ian’s similar, but inverse statement, regarding the then recently discovered 200 million year old Wollemi Pines, that remained firmly rooted nearby in the Blue Mountains, but were only recently discovered.

Similarly, any academic who says that: “A mammal that large going undetected and undocumented in the Western United States for this long defies all probability and logic,” is an idiot! Identical statements have been repeatedly made throughout history that have also been proven to be premature. Statements that suggest that the majority of encounter reports are “a compound of hoaxing, confusion, hallucination, and folklore” defy the overwhelming demographic and statistical evidence. A similarly stupid comment!

Thanks.

Neil

Something else to read...

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/1178006 ... m-physics/

Hi Neil, where I'm going by posting that link, is it epitomises the two sides of the coin of bigfoot or yowie research. On the one side you have the sincere researcher (Meldrum), and on the other side the unscrupulous hoaxter (Dyer). Having just completed a new year's clean-out, uncovered some items I had swept under the carpet. It caused me to reflect on how much time (I will never get back with my family), money, energy, effort, and thought I devoted to what turned out to be a hoax and one helluva poor judgment call. Looks like I'm going to be selling some electronic items on ebay in the near future.

As for your link, Searcher, I knew Jerry and Sue very well for a while. Paranormal or supernatural viewpoint was strong with them and that they were from another dimension. I initially felt if there were any truth to the flesh & blood yowie, then they disappear under the Earth into caverns or a subterranean cave network. The problem is I could never locate such cave entrances and I haven't known of other researchers who have. Franzoni shares my view in his work, "In the Spirit of Seatco." I have also read some indigenous peoples believe the emerge from under the ground in a spirit and/or physical form.

Searcher wrote:http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/1178006 ... m-physics/

G’day Searcher,

The answer to the question heading this article is - none.

Neil

Neil wrote:
The answer to the question heading this article is - none.

Hello Neil.
We're on the same page here!
In hindsight, perhaps I should have posted that link in the Controversial section. It was only a few days old and not many would have seen it.

Scarts, I respect your views and your right to air them. Can't agree though! We eagerly await evidence of real substance from either side...

Neil Frost wrote: I fully respect Jeff Meldrum’s stance against established academia.

It's a shame that interested scientists without bigfoot coloured lenses aren't consulted more often. There are a few around, though as they don't tell people what they wish to hear.....

The best research is from honest amateurs who aren't pretending they are being scientific IMO. Such as one bigfoot researcher who used to share his research on these forums. I believe he was being very genuine and that he was obviously experiencing something (glowing eyes 'n all).

Meldrums bigfoot work is not so much a stance against academia, as much as an academic irrelevance to all but a small fanbase of mostly "proletarian" believers/ researchers (as he somewhat unkindly refers to them...the proletarii being one of the lowest classes of citizenry in ancient Rome). The "Von Daniken" of anthropology.

Neil Frost wrote:Similarly, any academic who says that: “A mammal that large going undetected and undocumented in the Western United States for this long defies all probability and logic,” is an idiot! Identical statements have been repeatedly made throughout history that have also been proven to be premature. Statements that suggest that the majority of encounter reports are “a compound of hoaxing, confusion, hallucination, and folklore” defy the overwhelming demographic and statistical evidence. A similarly stupid comment!

Neil

It seems that your "demographic and statistical evidence" was a little incomplete. Since the wonderful "research" of folks like Ray Wallace, Scoop Beal etc in the west, bigfoot appears to have had quite a population explosion. The "bigfoot of the western US" is now the" bigfoot in in the entirety (every state) of the US".

It exists in the green belts around rural and semi rural areas, has been seen under the busy freeway overpasses outside major US cities. It exists in the plains states and in deserts. Researchers feed it and exchange gifts with it every evening. "Ten footers" have been seen sitting in trees in the "wilds" of Kentucky. One prominent group has been researching and interacting with it for a very long time in the Arkansas wilderness.....(which in reality is an easily accessible ten acre block) though have yet to provide anything more than stories. Though wonderful stories they are.

Far from being the shy and elusive creature as claimed, it has been known to bang on cabin walls, peer into windows, raid dumpsters, attack campervans, stalk hikers, kidnap people, has been seen travelling busy highways as well as quieter country roads, has been snuck up on and filmed by a "researcher" and his faux Indian guide on horseback. It can apparently "levitate" over Elk tracks to lay in the mud (and cunningly disguise it's marks as that of an Elk) in a wide open field beside a road to nibble on an apple. It terrifies campers and stares down heavily armed hunters.

Yet unlike other large NA mammals who end up as grill ornaments on the front of Kenworths, suffer from habitat loss, or are exploited and hunted to the verge of extinction in what is now a very technologically advanced society with the most heavily armed civilian population on planet earth.....bigfoot is thriving it seems. If you overlook the fact that nothing definitive has ever been found (plenty of claims have been found definitively not bigfoot though...but opossum, racoon etc.).

Somehow proponents find it unreasonable to expect that a specimen might be found somewhere in amongst this over the centuries. Yet that isn't only very reasonable, it should have happened. For a large mammal with one of the largest ranges in NA (covering the entire US, roughly comparable to the range of humans) this is exactly what should have happened and is probably the only way left for it to be taken seriously.

There is no precedent here where breeding populations of 7'-12' massive mammals/apes have existed in amongst hundreds of millions of people for centuries without being catalogued, nothing is remotely comparable. This bigfoot obviously doesn't exist. Whether a remnant population of such things exist (or once existed) in a hidden valley somewhere as the source of the ensuing mythology, who knows, but even that seems unlikely.

I wonder the value of simply casting a stereotype of "stupid" to those who hold contrary beliefs? I don't believe for a second that bigfoot exists in NA (it could elsewhere though IMO), though I can't help notice that many who do are otherwise normal intelligent people. Certainly not "stupid", or at least not simply because of their beliefs alone (just wrong).

In what way would "demographics", specifically, lend any weight to bigfoot being a real uncatalogued species?

sapere aude wrote.

I don't believe for a second that bigfoot exists in NA

As the Australian Open is about to start, a famous comment of former tennis ace John McEnroe comes quickly to mind… “You cannot be serious!” ...Sums up the above post beautifully.

How come you ask? Well…your stance on the non-existence of Bigfoot does not make any sense. The map of Sasquatch sightings in North America shows over 3,300 reports. It might be at least twice that number. There is no doubt many cases go unreported.

My point is you simply cannot dismiss ALL these eyewitness testimonies with a wave of your skeptical arm. If just ONE of these many thousands sightings is for real, then you have one genuine, bona fide Bigfoot in “them thar hills”.

Do you really believe every single eyewitness is confabulating or just telling lies simply because no one has come up with a body? It is absolutely clear people from all walks of life are seeing something out there!

I‘m sure if you got up from your comfortable computer chair and spent time with the people who have actually come face to face with these cunning, fearsome and highly elusive creatures and listened intently to their experiences, then you would no doubt change your tune.
Wiki suggests Sapere Aude means “dare to know”. I respectfully suggest your current knowledge needs some enlightenment. Then you won’t come across sounding like professional skeptic and debunker of everything, Joe Nickell. That’s most definitely a dreadful fate no one should want!

JOE…is that you, Joe??

Searcher wrote: As the Australian Open is about to start, a famous comment of former tennis ace John McEnroe comes quickly to mind… “You cannot be serious!” ...Sums up the above post beautifully.

Yeah, I liked McEnroe too.

Searcher wrote:How come you ask? Well…your stance on the non-existence of Bigfoot does not make any sense. The map of Sasquatch sightings in North America shows over 3,300 reports. It might be at least twice that number. There is no doubt many cases go unreported.

Yet it puts paid to the myth of bigfoot solely in the remote regions pacific coast ("the west"), wouldn't you agree? Which is why I posted it.

Searcher wrote:My point is you simply cannot dismiss ALL these eyewitness testimonies with a wave of your skeptical arm. If just ONE of these many thousands sightings is for real, then you have one genuine, bona fide Bigfoot in “them thar hills”.

I can see your logic and certainly understand your point, though I disagree. If just one dogman sighting is real...if just one mothman sighting is real...if just one Icelandic Elf sighting is real...and so forth.

Searcher wrote:Do you really believe every single eyewitness is confabulating or just telling lies simply because no one has come up with a body? It is absolutely clear people from all walks of life are seeing something out there!

No, I don't actually believe that. It plays a part for sure, though I think it does a disservice to the cognitive sciences when such things as "confabulation" are given prominence. It's really very superficial and overlooks a massive amount of research and experimentally derived understanding.

It's usually skeptics who do this. The way we take in information from our senses (and more importantly, the way it is interpreted) is an immense subject and entirely different to the intuitive understanding most people have, such as photons arriving via the eyes and stimulating a nerve that recreates an image in the brain etc. This is such an oversimplification that it actually never happens this way. It requires very little for people to see something that isn't there, in fact this happens at any given moment through the day. There are many factors the influence it. A very good reason why most magicians are skeptics.

Though I don't think it will explain this subject (not yet at least), but if people research it, it probably wouldn't be sneered at as much and things like "confabulation" would be put into context.

I can see the strong possibility that at many of these accounts are honest and people are genuinely relaying something they have experienced. Where we might differ is on the "why". I don't claim to know that part as much as what it isn't (especially in NA).

Searcher wrote:I‘m sure if you got up from your comfortable computer chair and spent time with the people who have actually come face to face with these cunning, fearsome and highly elusive creatures and listened intently to their experiences, then you would no doubt change your tune.

I guess when I was wandering around NA in bigfoot country (some beautiful scenery) being frightened by bears (can put the wind up you when you are used to cuddly marsupials) that my chair must have been broken. Similarly broken during the endless days and nights spent in some of the more well known Yowie haunts. I found some very peculiar things. Incidentally I gave everything to a Yowie researcher.

As to the last part, why do you think I have an interest in the subject?

Searcher wrote:Wiki suggests Sapere Aude means “dare to know”. I respectfully suggest your current knowledge needs some enlightenment. Then you won’t come across sounding like professional skeptic and debunker of everything, Joe Nickell. That’s most definitely a dreadful fate no one should want!

JOE…is that you, Joe??

I don't doubt that (ignorance). I am also very aware that I could be wrong, simply because it has happened so many times before. There is quote from Socrates regarding ignorance that is very relevant here, though I won't bother repeating it.

I can only (respectfully) suggest that you look into bigfoot a little more critically. Start with the map provided. Consult scientists and even the more objective US researchers. Look into the claims of native tales of bigfoot. There are even academic works on such things by native Americans themselves. The relevant fossil record, the "Giganto" claims, what is known migration etc. Look into the claims (particularly by scientists) and gain impartial appraisal.

You might start to see that the bigfoot phenomena is alone and is actually largely inconsistent with the "hairyman" phenomena in some important ways, from other parts of the world. In ways that make it extraordinarily less likely. There might have been consistencies at one stage, but as portrayed, it is something very recent (began in the '50's). There is no bigfoot (as portrayed in modern culture) in NA.

Though I find all of them unlikely (far more so after having studied bigfoot in the US) I haven't completely given up on the Yowie being real, or things like the Orang Pendek (the most likely of them all IMO). It will be a shame IMO if the more sensationalist and unlikely elements of bigfoot spill over to Aus, particularly where research is concerned. I find the research here better than anything the US scientist/believers have put ever forward. Largely because it at least appears honest and really seems like people trying to find out whether such things exist. I'm not required to believe the unbelievable because someone with letters after their name rather imaginatively "misinterprets" just about anything they feel they can, as being "bigfoot". It looks more like "spin" than science. Thankfully the few academics that support Yowies are much less liberal with their claims and seem to have less trouble distinguishing what is an opinion, from what can be sustained scientifically. In fact from what I can see, disagreement and even a sceptical view (if polite and reasonable) seems tolerated. Try that with bigfoot.

Sapere aud,

You are a breath of fresh air in a stale forum! Unfortunately, your praise for Yowie research over Bigfoot research, is a little over-rated. What has been going on in the USA has most certainly been mirrored here. The majority of contributors to this forum think they are still chasing a flesh and blood creature and it doesn't phase them one little bit, that year after year, despite earnest and valiant attempts, there is always zero conclusive physical proof obtained. Whenever anybody says anything outside of the flesh and blood paradigm, automatically that person is regarded an armchair researcher, skeptic, or acadamic.

I would like to see a hollistic approach to yowie research emerge. Afterall, like sightings of UFOs, Aliens, Fairies, and even Santa Claus, sightings of the Yowie will continue. I suggest, a yowie sighting might be a flag for something else going on in a peron's life at a particular time. Many researchers here and in the States only ever concentrate on and stop short on the details of the story and fail to see it as the tip of the iceberg for the bigger picture.

An armchair can also be a state of mind where one is overly clingy to their comfort zone way of thinking.

Scarts it really would be a shame if you are still here at the end of yet another year complaining about the same things over and over without any personal progress .

Don't get caught at the end of your life with regrets , ( I should have done this or that ) and realising your life is over and its too late for any personal investigation .

No one is going to find YOUR answers for you .

Is there any reason why you cant start investigating in the forest yourself , the infrasound was a good idea .

Rusty, I'm not complaining about anything. I'm pointing out the bleeding obvious, just as Dion attempted to do. Remember Dion? As for progress personally or as a group effort in yowie research, my whole point is current methods have not worked. Rusty, if you think you're doing a great job, good for you, give yourself a pat on the back.

No researcher on this forum sets dates or deadlines, so there is no genuine tension to achieve anything. If one tactic fails, there is no move on to the next strategy. It's just groundhog day. There is no leadership in this, and many people here are not being up front. It's just individuals going about their own private little enquiries and whenever anything slightly interesting is obtained without an obvious answer, to throw it on the forum for discussion.

Rusty, wow. Did you say I should start investigating in my local forest? Seriously? I mean, seriously? I am joe black.

The question that underpins everything on this forum is, "Why do people experience the Yowie?" That's the question. Your answer is because it's a real flesh and blood creature that's really shy and good at hiding. That's YOUR bubble head answer, you run with that. If you want to waste the next twenty years of your life only to finally learn what myself and many others have repeatedly said, be my guest. Don't say you weren't told.

Scarts wrote:Your answer is because it's a real flesh and blood creature that's really shy and good at hiding. That's YOUR bubble head answer, you run with that. If you want to waste the next twenty years of your life only to finally learn what myself and many others have repeatedly said, be my guest. Don't say you weren't told.

Scarts, if the Yowie isn't a flesh and blood creature, then what do you propose it is? I know you cited bits and pieces from other researchers in an earlier thread, but I'm interested in your own personal theory. Throw it on the forum for discussion as you said?

Brindabella Ranger wrote: Scarts, if the Yowie isn't a flesh and blood creature, then what do you propose it is? I know you cited bits and pieces from other researchers in an earlier thread, but I'm interested in your own personal theory. Throw it on the forum for discussion as you said?

A flesh and blood creature I would say it is (not that I've personally had any personal human-to-yowie experience, but didn't Mr. Harrison once have the bruises to prove it was such?), but perhaps only in "our" universe if it's a "dimension-hopper"?

Scarts wrote:
I would like to see a hollistic approach to yowie research emerge.

What would you suggest ?

There's no way in hell I'm gonna start screaming disappearing yowie , science will never swallow it and neither will the public , however , a scientific approach using scientific instruments to record 24/7 would be interesting . I have some instruments here and have already made an instrument package but pulled it apart .

Scarts ? What portable instruments might record an event your talking about ?

Rusty2 wrote:

Scarts ? What portable instruments might record an event your talking about ?

Rusty, I think it would take something like the Neutrino Wand device used by Dan Akroyd and the Ghostbusters team.

Lol ............... jokes aside Searcher , I've seen some crazy stuff while out in the forest , all I can say is not everything is as it seems .

Ignore the flesh and blood paradigm for now. It hasn't got anyone anywhere.

Dig deeper when interviewing. A certain portion of witnesses were experiencing extreme disharmony in their lives when they have had their encounters. Whether any of these people have had a liminal experience or episode of dissociation, is ok to keep in the back of your mind. That state of mind may just allow the individual to perceive a form of energy or consciousness that is attracted to the person's disharmony. Or perhaps the person is unconsciously attracting the yowie entity experience as a need to re-balance psychologically.

Use UV video cameras. If it is an external consciousness or entity, then my suggestion is to use an ultra violet video camera as an aid in experiments. People who have successfully extended their sight to perceive auras for example, have apparently extended their eyesight into the ultra-violet end of the spectrum. These same people have reported allegedly then perceiving spirits, including more relevantly, nature spirits.

Use an infra-sound detector. Regarding infra-sound, if we could get our hands on an infra-sound detector, we could document infra-sound at the site of a sighting or experience. This isn't a suggestion the yowie causes the infra-sound. This is a suggestion the infra-sound, be it caused by the air moving over a particular rocky outcrop, or through a particular set of trees at a certain velocity, may cause a person exposed to it, to slip into a state of dissociation, and thus able to perceive any nearby entity attracted to that person's disharmonious state of mind. Infrasound is what is generated by the massive organs played in certain church cathedrals, which lead the congregation into a state of mind conducive to religious elation. It's the same principle.

Use a ground penetrating radar. This is a bit far fetched, but would be interesting if we could get our hands on one, to see what lays beneath the ground at the site of a sighting or encounter. A number of indigenous peoples believe the entity emerges from under the ground and then returns there. It would be interesting to determine if there are any bones down there, and bones of what, and then any underground tunnels.

That's five suggestions.

Rusty2 wrote:

I've seen some crazy stuff while out in the forest , all I can say is not everything is as it seems .

That's really interesting, Rusty. Would you care to elaborate?

For a uv video camera and infrasound detector to work , you would have to actually see a yowie to record your reaction versus the electronic interpretations .
Seeing a yowie on purpose doesnt happen , it happens when you least expect it , so it would be extremely time consuming with very little reward , It's a big ask .

I would wear a multispectral headcam and deploy some electronic instruments but it all costs money and would happen when it happens , I'd do it though just to see what happens .

Searcher , I saw some things that arent supposed to happen lol , it's not a very popular subject and lotsa people get upset .

Rusty…Your call to keep those cards close to your chest. If you ever decide to lay them on the table, I for one will be eager for a look. And in the meantime, let's hope your sustained efforts are rewarded by capturing something really positive on Ultra HD!

Question I was trying to ask is if your forest experience relates directly to a probable Yowie or something else entirely. There is no doubt in my mind that ghosts and spirits exist in another dimension and there are such things as haunted houses. I can vouch for that first hand! I also believe these entities are not restricted to buildings and can reside in other areas such as forests.

Here's some reading for those who would like to believe something stranger than fiction holds the key to the mystery of these elusive Yowie/Bigfioot/Yeti creatures. Most people familiar with UFO literature would be aware of the Project Blue World. It is purported to be a reveal by a government scientist insider of the ET visitation situation. The document contains notes and drawings supposedly made by the scientist. There is also a book called The Blue Planet Project. I’m not saying for a moment that I give credence to this lengthy document. It may turn out to be one giant hoax. However, the information about alien life forms did get my attention and at least some of it rings true.

The whistle blowing scientist claims there are at least 160 alien races visiting us at the moment. One of these is the Bigfoot like WADIG. It is said he looks like a primitive kind of primate but he is an intelligent being. Normally he never wears clothes. This re-enforces the belief that the WADIG is perhaps some kind of primitive missing link. As UFOs travel through other dimensions of space and time to get here much faster than light speed, if the WADIG exists, he must by definition be an inter-dimensional being.

Then again, I give absolutely no credence to the way out theory that all Yowie and Bigfoot sightings are due to encounters with inter-dimensional entities. Just because a Yowie body hasn’t been found, you don’t have to abandon common sense and jump on the bandwagon for gullible people. That’s what you do by embracing all the way out alternative ideas that offer not a skerrick of proof to back up any claims. I’d much rather give credence to the huge number of close up eye witness accounts world wide.

If you want, read more at: https://panoffolin.wordpress.com/tag/na ... t-of-1947/

While we're talking about finding Yowies in the bush, I've just found one crazy go almost anywhere machine to help search for them. It's a Zeisel!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxDrgiHhZA0

Searcher wrote:While we're talking about finding Yowies in the bush, I've just found one crazy go almost anywhere machine to help search for them. It's a Zeisel!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxDrgiHhZA0

With those heavy-looking treads it's probably got a relatively low centre of gravity, but even with the seat harness I'd still want a roll-cage and helmet.

macquariedave wrote:

With those heavy-looking treads it's probably got a relatively low centre of gravity, but even with the seat harness I'd still want a roll-cage and helmet.

Certainly agree with that, Dave. However, if you've being watching 'Finding Bigfoot' lately, those two wheel Segways the crew has been using look quite unstable in the rough. I recall a spill or two happening on the telly. Give me Der Ziesel - Offroad any day. Not sure about the price though... they would not be cheap!

$28 K Australian Searcher..........not cheap

How about with three or more members to a team, four or five teams of members each be assigned a particular strategy in investigating yowie reports?

Team one deals exclusively with in-depth interviews.

Team two with filming in UV and using an infra-sound detector at hotspots.

Team three with ground penetrating radar, and analysis of the land and type of flora and fauna present.

Team four looks for stick structures and other bush anomalies, films the area, and by speaking with other locals or local history, attempt to uncover any sort of history or corroborating information.

Team five with using a psychic or having this team's members using meditation techniques at a hotspot.


A fresh report comes in, we use that as a starting point. Each team member would need to sign a declaration or oath to maintain honesty and high integrity. Team 1 attend first, followed by the remaining teams in order. At the end of twelve months, a finite number of reports will have been thoroughly investigated and results of each team can be crunched.

I think this would be a far more useful and insightful approach to any research.

Hey Searcher , here is a link to a previous report that may interest you and contains an encounter of mine with similar aspects . viewtopic.php?f=45&t=4592

It all sounds like a very thorough investigation Scarts leaving no stone unturned . It also sounds like a lot of work and organisation . You may have to lead by example .

Rusty2, it will be hard work. Unfortunately, I can't lead by example on this as there are too many hats for one person to wear.

I would need a number of members here to throw up their hands as volunteers in the interest of this research. If the number of active members here and the number of views of these threads is any indication, that shouldn't be too much of a problem. The reality though, is not too many people want to actually do any active research, especially with something like this where there is no immediate pay-off. Also, we would be at the mercy of the yowie gods as to when and where someone has an encounter, which makes it extremely difficult to plan ahead. There would also need to be sponsorship of some sort, and who do we ask to sponsor us?

I guess it depends on how much the more regular and vocal members here desire to solve the great yowie mysteries, or are quite happy and content to plod along hoping wishful thinking will win the day.

Thanks Rusty. Now I better understand what you mean!

Have not seen that thread before, so as I glided through it, I almost sprayed my morning coffee over the Mac… I’ll take it all on board and try to make some sense of your experience. Not going to be easy!

At the moment, all I can think of to compare is last year’s Fox Sports HD footage of a ‘ghost’ that appears to run or glide through football fans in Bolivia. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdXvEaCKw08

Just a thought… if only you had a 'helmet cam’ on, it would have recorded everything you saw. You’ll see them worn in Big Bash cricket and they are also becoming very popular with cyclists. Reckon lightweight continuous recording headgear should be a ‘must have’ item for all serious Yowie finding expeditions. You just never know when you might get a glimpse of the unknown!

Scarts , if you want change to happen bad enough you'll find a way . As I mentioned before , when I get some dough I'll get a multispectoral headcam and deploy some scientific instruments with my audio recorder just to see what happens .

I hope some members here can help you with some sort of support to get things off the ground . Once people see results it may encourage others to jump on board .

Searcher , lmao . Yeah that was freaky that ghost . Yes, my helmet cam was sitting in the car when it happened , it cant explain what happened ........