Yowiehunters Forum

Waow this gives support to the yowie being pre-stone age homind.. but i still think it's an omnivorous variety of gigantopithecus (orangutan family). Great night vision, humming, whistling, grunting, club wielding, upright, mega-fast runner and pulls itself through the Eastern Australian forests.



www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-39710315

Good find.
I would love to see a complete skull and compare its features to the Kow Swamp skull.

Homo Naledi is just the latest find but of course it won't be the last.The list keeps getting longer of early hominids.Several different hominids left Africa at staggered intervals and settled all over the world.Possible crossbreeding has lead to a class of subspecies.When and if they discover the supposed missing link then we might have the complete human story.

Boab Bob wrote:Waow this gives support to the yowie being pre-stone age homind.. but i still think it's an omnivorous variety of gigantopithecus (orangutan family). Great night vision, humming, whistling, grunting, club wielding, upright, mega-fast runner and pulls itself through the Eastern Australian forests.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-39710315

Are you talking about Homo naledi here?

I think Boab Bob was referring to the Yowie being - in his view - a descendant of Gigantopithecus. That's how I read his post, anyway.

SPOT ON
Lozza62

I like the idea of yowie being homo naledi. They are suspcted to have lived brifely around the same time humans did.

Homo naledi though was physically smaller than humans. If homo naledi is what evolved into modern day yowie/sasquatch what factors lead to their gigantism over time?

In line with the author though, i too agree that homo gigantopethicus is the most likely candidate for yowie and sasquatch.

Gigantopethicus origionates from central china. Yaren are reported in the same locations to this day. Giganto was related to the orangutan. Yaren reports sound fairly close to something orangutanish.

In support of their observations in china, although smaller in stature, in a proposed southern migratory route for this said creature are reports of oreng pendek down in Malaysia. They too seem to appear closely related to both the yaren and the orangutan.

I figure during the era of earths climate where sea levels were lower id imagine the species homo gigantopethicus spread out both north and south from china. To the south they crossed through the sunda landmass made it across the wallace line by new guinea and ended up in australia. Along the way becoming yaren then oreng pendek then finally yowie.

Its possible they initially became smaller in stature as they progressed into thicker and thicker jungles of the sumatra and Malaysian region.

Most animals get smaller as they start settling down in dense jungle. Sumatran tigers as a good example. Half the size of most other tigers living in less dense bush. Pygmies of the ituri forest in africa an example of humans getting smaller when living in dense jungle.

Maybe giganto got a bit smaller to suit his environment as he migrated south into the jungles. However once it made it across the wallace line and got back into the more accomidating bush and forests of Australia it regained some of its size becoming eventually the 7-8 foot modern day yowie you see these days.

It would be interesting to compare the reported sizes of the animals from say the dense forests in northern queensland to the more open forests of new south Wales. See if theres a size correlation between their environments.

Yes, Gigantopithecus. Not sure about shrinking then expanding again. I think 50,000 yrs ago there was less jungle in SE asia anyway. This description from the wikipedia article on the orang pendek is very interesting.. sounds almost like a yowie report:
Debbie Martyr - a prominent Orang Pendek researcher who has worked in the area for over 15 years, has interviewed hundreds of witnesses, and alleges to have seen the animal personally on several occasions—gives the following description:

...usually no more than 85 or 90cm in height — although occasionally as large as 1m 20cm. The body is covered in a coat of dark grey or black flecked with grey hair. But it is the sheer physical power of the orang pendek that most impresses the Kerinci villagers. They speak in awe, of its broad shoulders, huge chest and upper abdomen and powerful arms. The animal is so strong, the villagers would whisper that it can uproot small trees and even break rattan vines. The legs, in comparison, are short and slim, the feet neat and small, usually turned out at an angle of up to 45 degrees. The head slopes back to a distinct crest — similar to the gorilla — and there appears to be a bony ridge above the eyes. But the mouth is small and neat, the eyes are set wide apart and the nose is distinctly humanoid. When frightened, the animal exposes its teeth — revealing oddly broad incisors and prominent, long canine teeth.[3]

bassplyr wrote:In line with the author though, i too agree that homo gigantopethicus is the most likely candidate for yowie and sasquatch.

Gigantopethicus origionates from central china. Yaren are reported in the same locations to this day. Giganto was related to the orangutan. Yaren reports sound fairly close to something orangutanish.

In support of their observations in china, although smaller in stature, in a proposed southern migratory route for this said creature are reports of oreng pendek down in Malaysia. They too seem to appear closely related to both the yaren and the orangutan.

I figure during the era of earths climate where sea levels were lower id imagine the species homo gigantopethicus spread out both north and south from china. To the south they crossed through the sunda landmass made it across the wallace line by new guinea and ended up in australia. Along the way becoming yaren then oreng pendek then finally yowie.

Its possible they initially became smaller in stature as they progressed into thicker and thicker jungles of the sumatra and Malaysian region.

Most animals get smaller as they start settling down in dense jungle. Sumatran tigers as a good example. Half the size of most other tigers living in less dense bush. Pygmies of the ituri forest in africa an example of humans getting smaller when living in dense jungle.

Maybe giganto got a bit smaller to suit his environment as he migrated south into the jungles. However once it made it across the wallace line and got back into the more accomidating bush and forests of Australia it regained some of its size becoming eventually the 7-8 foot modern day yowie you see these days.

It would be interesting to compare the reported sizes of the animals from say the dense forests in northern queensland to the more open forests of new south Wales. See if theres a size correlation between their environments.

Interesting details about the orangpendek. Thank you for posting them.

In regards to it shrinking then growing in size again. What i meant is the specimens that stayed in sumatra etc. Modern day decedents are smaller due to the jungle. But that they could be from the same liniage as what became yowie.

It's also worth noting that there are cryptid apes of varying sizes that have been reported - Homo naledi may well be the ancestor of the Junjadees, for example. The larger Yowie (or whatever you want to call them) might be descended from Gigantopithecus. There's no way of knowing if the two creatures are closely related to one another or as different from each other as we are from both of them.

I don't totally dismiss they could be two species - Australia is kindof the end of the earth if early hominid and humans found it easier to travel via coastal areas. But some of the reports of the small junjadees give the impression that they are juveniles. One even has them coming out of scrub to walk some distance holding hands with a farmer (?). I do think with all the history and science education and also 'horror-mysticism' of modern times makes us perhaps more afraid and in awe of them. Back in the 1700s and 1800s and later folk might have been less sensationalist and not bothered about making a fuss about it. Maybe they also saw reporting them as potentially causing too much trouble on their land.

Simon M wrote:It's also worth noting that there are cryptid apes of varying sizes that have been reported - Homo naledi may well be the ancestor of the Junjadees, for example. The larger Yowie (or whatever you want to call them) might be descended from Gigantopithecus. There's no way of knowing if the two creatures are closely related to one another or as different from each other as we are from both of them.

Orang Pendek reconstruction (i presume it's a reconstruction!)

There's so much we don't know - the fact that indigenous stories mention there are both large and small hairy people and that they're distinct from each other is what I'm using as a yardstick. The smaller ones may well be juvenile Yowies for all we know.

I tend to accept indigenous lore as reliable anecdotal evidence, so I work on the assumption (because I'm well aware that it is just an assumption) that many of their observations are reliable. I'm not saying that things are necessarily 100% accurate just because they're from indigenous sources; but if people who lived in very close proximity to the natural world for tens of thousands of years have observed that there are different types/races of hairy people then it seems reasonable (to me) to accept that as a working hypothesis.

I also a hypocrite in that I don't accept the mystical/supernatural aspects of indigenous lore as being factual - I'm cherry picking, essentially.

Uhuh, i think aboriginal lore can be quite unique compared to many other cultures. The songline system of 'keepsaking' (my own off the head term) or story ownership i'd argue would increase reliability for content, but obviously it often has to be decoded/converted into something scientifically understandable. I've read of tales of an estuary flooding at the end of the last ice age as confirming actual geological analysis. Also interesting are northern tales of coming from overseas after spotting smoke over the ocean horizon. That might be way back or more recent as i think the last wave of aboriginals to settle Australia was about .. 6000 yrs before present if i remember rightly. So, in short, knowledge being kept so long in some form isn't exclusive to aboriginals but their stewardship of a tale as a homogenous, precious story may well lend extra credence to an extent. I'd love to study aboriginal culture more at university or suchlike but that's not a realistic option for me right now.

Bob

Simon M wrote:There's so much we don't know - the fact that indigenous stories mention there are both large and small hairy people and that they're distinct from each other is what I'm using as a yardstick. The smaller ones may well be juvenile Yowies for all we know.

I tend to accept indigenous lore as reliable anecdotal evidence, so I work on the assumption (because I'm well aware that it is just an assumption) that many of their observations are reliable. I'm not saying that things are necessarily 100% accurate just because they're from indigenous sources; but if people who lived in very close proximity to the natural world for tens of thousands of years have observed that there are different types/races of hairy people then it seems reasonable (to me) to accept that as a working hypothesis.

I also a hypocrite in that I don't accept the mystical/supernatural aspects of indigenous lore as being factual - I'm cherry picking, essentially.

Amazing homo naledi sculptures: http://www.early-man.com/homo-naledi.html

Two things intrigue me -
1: the eyes which i reckon could be mistaken for 'vertical' eyes which are in some reports.
2: the 'pinched' nose which also seems an echo of some reports.. especially the very convincing Megalong Valley encounter interviews (where a rider came off her horse with significant injuries)

Remember that homo naledi is the only really ancient hominid proven to have lasted into relatively recent times (between 335,000 and 236,000 years ago). All the other cousin species: homo erectus/homo floresiensis and the neanderthals all used tools, fire and clothing.

Boab Bob wrote:Amazing homo naledi sculptures: http://www.early-man.com/homo-naledi.html

Two things intrigue me -
1: the eyes which i reckon could be mistaken for 'vertical' eyes which are in some reports.
2: the 'pinched' nose which also seems an echo of some reports.. especially the very convincing Megalong Valley encounter interviews (where a rider came off her horse with significant injuries)

Remember that homo naledi is the only really ancient hominid proven to have lasted into relatively recent times (between 335,000 and 236,000 years ago). All the other cousin species: homo erectus/homo floresiensis and the neanderthals all used tools, fire and clothing.

Thanks for the link, very interesting.
IMO the artist failed to take into account muscle mass. These creatures lived hard, they would have had to very fit to survive, but instead of adding muscle mass like we see in gorillas, chimps, etc, the artist seems to have represented a modern, couch potato h. Naledi

There are a wide range of body shapes and sizes in yowie accounts. And being fit or hardy doesn't necessarily depend on size of muscle. Look at the strength of chimps and body shape of the bonobo (etc). We should be wary of stereotyping the yowie like bigfoot.

"Thanks for the link, very interesting.
IMO the artist failed to take into account muscle mass. These creatures lived hard, they would have had to very fit to survive, but instead of adding muscle mass like we see in gorillas, chimps, etc, the artist seems to have represented a modern, couch potato h. Naledi [/quote]"

Hi B B

Here is another example of size and strength. Giant chimpanzee tribes of the Congo only first seen by outsiders just over 12 years ago. Obviously they have always been there. These chimps it is said by the natives kii and eat lions.

http://scienceheathen.com/2015/01/11/bi ... ubspecies/

The bili ape is said to be inbetween chimp and gorilla. I wonder if they've sequenced the DNA yet or even obtained a sample.

TheBlackStump wrote:Hi B B

Here is another example of size and strength. Giant chimpanzee tribes of the Congo only first seen by outsiders just over 12 years ago. Obviously they have always been there. These chimps it is said by the natives kii and eat lions.

http://scienceheathen.com/2015/01/11/bi ... ubspecies/

*Grunt* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bili_ape

Useful discussion to an extent but the bili isn't that close to homo naledi let alone the yowie. I am more inclined to think that if the yowie are two different species rather than one then naledi might me a candidate for the smaller one. There are certainly a range of forms from looking short haired and smooth with a lithe or human body to massive shoulders with long orangutan-like hair coming off the arms. Not to mention all the colours but then look at our own variety.

Those Billi Apes are amazing. What a shame about the poaching.

Boab Bob wrote:The bili ape is said to be inbetween chimp and gorilla. I wonder if they've sequenced the DNA yet or even obtained a sample.

TheBlackStump wrote:Hi B B

Here is another example of size and strength. Giant chimpanzee tribes of the Congo only first seen by outsiders just over 12 years ago. Obviously they have always been there. These chimps it is said by the natives kii and eat lions.

http://scienceheathen.com/2015/01/11/bi ... ubspecies/

I don't doubt the existence of the apes.
But the reading I have done indicates that lions do not occur in the Congo. Lions typically inhabit grassland, not thick forest.
Just saying...

Good point M A. I did not think of that. What you say makes sense to me.

I just copy/pasted the eats lion subject title.

Cheers

As a matter of interest I just looked up Wikipedia. They have 4 different varieties of lions listed for Congo as well as other big cats. Also their is a spotted lion not listed which is a hybrid of lion/jaguar.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wildlife_ ... _the_Congo

If humans and hominids had so many hundreds of thousands of years surely we underestimate our capacity to travel by various means. Does it have to that high tech like polynesian navigation?
Are these guys predecessors? ,,,,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nawao

TheBlackStump wrote:As a matter of interest I just looked up Wikipedia. They have 4 different varieties of lions listed for Congo as well as other big cats. Also their is a spotted lion not listed which is a hybrid of lion/jaguar.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wildlife_ ... _the_Congo

The Jaguar is not found in Africa, but south America so in which case it is probably a leopard / lion cross, OR they are referring to species kept in captivity, as that is the only possible way two big cats from different continents could come in contact. Just my two cents

Shazz

“If there is one other species out there that shared the world with ‘modern humans’ in Africa, it is very likely there are others. We just need to find them"
https://www.wits.ac.za/homonaledi/age/