Camera

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hillbilly
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Camera

Unread post by hillbilly » Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:15 am

I have used day/ night trail cameras for nearly ten years, and gone through a half a dozen of them, and my FLIR scout just this year with no luck. It has been mentioned a million times that they are sensitive to the IR detectors, which I agree with.
I was thinking I might get a camera set on time lapse only. So no infa red detections. Has anybody tried this? My concern is the night flash, which is supposed to be virtually invisible, might be a deterrent.
And, has anyone used Black Flash Cameras?

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Re: Camera

Unread post by Pertys80 » Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:11 pm

hillbilly wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:15 am
I have used day/ night trail cameras for nearly ten years, and gone through a half a dozen of them, and my FLIR scout just this year with no luck. It has been mentioned a million times that they are sensitive to the IR detectors, which I agree with.
I was thinking I might get a camera set on time lapse only. So no infa red detections. Has anybody tried this? My concern is the night flash, which is supposed to be virtually invisible, might be a deterrent.
And, has anyone used Black Flash Cameras?
I think time lapse has its place for Cryptids, more so than IR trail cams..
I think Rusty222 used plot watchers with some success, maybe insulating them some way from Sound and EMF might help more..(Just as I'm eyeing up this stuff here at work.. lol)
20180904_120627.jpg
I have a 950NM (No Glow) Trail cam, caught nothing extraordinary yet.. I once captured a dog that didn't seem to notice the flash so maybe a little better perhaps..
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Re: Camera

Unread post by Rusty2 » Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:49 pm

I think they can see the "no glow/black ir" . I got an unfriendly reaction the first time I deployed them .
The problem is all cameras have eyes/lenses . They know the cameras are watching .
It's documented in a book called Field and Labratory Methods in Primatology , "pointing a big eye at primates can make them uneasy"

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Re: Camera

Unread post by hillbilly » Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:56 pm

Thanks. I have some hollow logs which I refused to use as firewood, which I will try to hide camera in. The "no glow" flash will still be visible, but the camera will be less conspicuous.

ripperton

Re: Camera

Unread post by ripperton » Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:51 am

Ive just discovered that my trail cam is basically useless.
The motion sensor reaction time is sometimes so slow and insensitive
that things can get in and out of the camera scope without triggering the camera.
If you are going to use a camera you would need to have it recording 24/7.
Ive got a series of clips where branches move between one clip and the next.
And a fox slowly moving through the scope simply disappears and does not
re-trigger the camera immediately while its still in scope.
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Re: Camera

Unread post by hillbilly » Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:24 am

There are trail cameras that you can set a time between shots, and alter the sensitivity of the sensors. I have mine set at around 15 seconds between shots, so if there is a fox or wallaby loitering in the area, I wont have lots of shots of the same animal. Sensitivity is set to medium. Its also got a video mode but I usually only take stills, to conserve battery power. 8 aa batteries last a few months.

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Re: Camera

Unread post by Dion » Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:07 am

I posted this up somewhere else but for all you others you may wish to see this Sony's iso capability.

Pretty awesome. (thumb up)

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Re: Camera

Unread post by MW83 » Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:29 pm

I saw this for sale on the JB hifi website and thought that it would be the ideal camera to attach to a backpack to film whatever is going on behind you:

https://www.jbhifi.com.au/cameras/camer ... ra/883110/


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Re: Camera

Unread post by Searcher » Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:39 pm

Dion wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:07 am
I posted this up somewhere else but for all you others you may wish to see this Sony's iso capability.

Pretty awesome. (thumb up)
I'm gobsmacked at the capabilities of that Sony camera!!

It literally turns night into day. (cool) Night stalking Yowies and the likes... BEWARE! The cover of darkness is gone forever.

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Re: Camera

Unread post by Dion » Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:15 pm

Searcher wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:39 pm
I'm gobsmacked at the capabilities of that Sony camera!!

It literally turns night into day. (cool) Night stalking Yowies and the likes... BEWARE! The cover of darkness is gone forever.
Its pretty awesome Searcher glad you agree.

Now if someone could just invent a game trail camera with those Sony specs and motion detection. #gamechanger
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Re: Camera

Unread post by Yowie Chaser » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:55 am

Hey guys, Yowie Chaser,

I have an idea about this, i dont have a cam yet because of all the storeys i hear how they dont work.
But i think i have a way to stop any problems of these cameras being detected by Mr hairy.
I want to try it 1st so i wont give away clues on how to do it. but just think of a different way to set it up.
Deep thinking guys dont just go out to your favourite spot wrap a camera around a tree. You will also need some other things.

Good Luck

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Re: Camera

Unread post by Yowieman27 » Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:29 pm

Does anyone think carrying a gopro around would be good for footage and sounds?

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Re: Camera

Unread post by Slats » Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:05 am

Yowieman27 wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:29 pm
Does anyone think carrying a gopro around would be good for footage and sounds?
Hi Yowieman27
Any camera would be better than no camera. However, something that can zoom and if need be manually focused would be a great advantage. Having said that the likely hood of capturing something is still very low. I've get better "action" when my camera is away in my bag. In relation to sounds, yes having something recording is a great benefit to capture sounds, having something with an external microphone is better as they are more sensitive and can pick up feint sounds a little better.
I use a camcorder to film my expeditions and I also use an audio recorder during my expeditions with a lavelier microphone attached to my backpacks shoulder strap. Not only does it serve as an audio log, I have been able to get sounds from the recording when I've not been filming.

Cheers Slats

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Re: Camera

Unread post by AL Pitman » Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:44 pm

I will not pretend to know squat about cameras but if Yowies identify the lens of a camera as an eye why not try one of those dome type concealment covers as are commonly used in walkways or shopping centres ?
Maybe the hairies won't perceive that as an eye ?????
IF YOU DO NOT LOOK YOU WILL NOT SEE

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Re: Camera

Unread post by AL Pitman » Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:46 pm

IF YOU DO NOT LOOK YOU WILL NOT SEE

AL PITMAN

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Re: Camera

Unread post by Slats » Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:03 pm

Hey Al
Unless you make something, those cameras require a pretty hardcore set up like what Rusty has. They 'big eye' theory is borrowed from primatology and great apes and we are only speculating that it crosses over.
I think it's more avoid the human stuff to be honest there is EMF shielding fabric you can get for cameras even for yourself, but in self funded research it's a cost to potential reward sort of thing.

Cheers Slats

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Re: Camera

Unread post by AL Pitman » Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:34 am

I understand Slats CHEERS
I know they are there pictures or not .
I think the culture needs some adjustment .
Make the sceptics prove that they don't exist and make them prove that they are not flesh and blood .
What hard evidence can they produce for their claim ??
IF YOU DO NOT LOOK YOU WILL NOT SEE

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Re: Camera

Unread post by Slats » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:57 am

Haha
Absolutely, I was talking to an interdimensional believer the other day. I said that most of the theoretical physicists believe it would probably be impossible to perceive the higher dimensions they "theorise" about.
Well did I get a long winded answer, that didn't really answer anything.

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Re: Camera

Unread post by JohnnyAnonymous » Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:28 am

I've had a theory now for years that no one seems to want to try with the argument that it would be too difficult for someone to do. I'd like to add that I think this would work best and tried with the no glow Trail-cams. I also think that now with the lighter-weight tree ladders (for deer hunters, etc) that this is more possible than what it was 6-10 years ago.

It revolves around the idea that our bipedal target is more prone to look forward rather than upward (visually on plane with the horizon). My idea is simple enough to climb a good height on a a tree and aim the camera at an downward angle. This (might) take care of the possible lense appearing to look like an eye (which might encourage the fight or flight urge), and also the Ir would not be triggered unless the subject was more directly below the camera.

With it being up at a higher altitude say perhaps 25 feet or more (depending on your cameras FOV and IR strength obviously) your also eliminating the smaller targets that are going to 'false' trigger the camera. With the sensor not pointing at tree branches (and other), you'll not have those false triggers and a card full of useless shots. With the smaller cameras able to now stay observant for up to 6 months on 8 AA batteries, once placed, you could leave it undisturbed for a lengthy time (which would not draw attention to your camera-base).

Also with it up substantially higher, your chance of detection should drop, (as I believe they are very observant of their environment, leaves, branches on ground, rocks, etc). Also if they did observe it and tried to take it down, this would lend more proof that a smaller animal didnt (the process of elimination). And if they climb a tree to take down the camera, you have a greater percentage of possible prints and hair samples to collect. This also would be a discouragement to that other animal "Man" from seeing and possibly stealing the camera (to much work for most thieves).

This idea came from a number of years ago when I was shown footage of a (supposed) Sasquatch walking below a birds nest of eagles that had a camera above the birds (which also included the ground below).

The other idea I had was a hollowed out tree stump with 3 cut out holes for the camera lense (in a triangular fashion to cover more area). The holes would be covered with Womens hose (thats what they're called here in the USA). It's sheer enough to shoot through yet even up close, you can barely see anything beyond it.

We used to use (back in the old days of photography) 'womens hose' as means to soften the picture up. This would be something of course that would translate over in this case too, but if it captures the target, I'll take soft-focus versus Blurry-BlobSquatch.

AnyWho... A few thoughts that I thought I'd toss into the mix here,
Johnny
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Re: Camera

Unread post by Slats » Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:54 pm

JohnnyAnonymous wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:28 am
I've had a theory now for years that no one seems to want to try with the argument that it would be too difficult for someone to do. I'd like to add that I think this would work best and tried with the no glow Trail-cams. I also think that now with the lighter-weight tree ladders (for deer hunters, etc) that this is more possible than what it was 6-10 years ago.

It revolves around the idea that our bipedal target is more prone to look forward rather than upward (visually on plane with the horizon). My idea is simple enough to climb a good height on a a tree and aim the camera at an downward angle. This (might) take care of the possible lense appearing to look like an eye (which might encourage the fight or flight urge), and also the Ir would not be triggered unless the subject was more directly below the camera.

With it being up at a higher altitude say perhaps 25 feet or more (depending on your cameras FOV and IR strength obviously) your also eliminating the smaller targets that are going to 'false' trigger the camera. With the sensor not pointing at tree branches (and other), you'll not have those false triggers and a card full of useless shots. With the smaller cameras able to now stay observant for up to 6 months on 8 AA batteries, once placed, you could leave it undisturbed for a lengthy time (which would not draw attention to your camera-base).

Also with it up substantially higher, your chance of detection should drop, (as I believe they are very observant of their environment, leaves, branches on ground, rocks, etc). Also if they did observe it and tried to take it down, this would lend more proof that a smaller animal didnt (the process of elimination). And if they climb a tree to take down the camera, you have a greater percentage of possible prints and hair samples to collect. This also would be a discouragement to that other animal "Man" from seeing and possibly stealing the camera (to much work for most thieves).

This idea came from a number of years ago when I was shown footage of a (supposed) Sasquatch walking below a birds nest of eagles that had a camera above the birds (which also included the ground below).

The other idea I had was a hollowed out tree stump with 3 cut out holes for the camera lense (in a triangular fashion to cover more area). The holes would be covered with Womens hose (thats what they're called here in the USA). It's sheer enough to shoot through yet even up close, you can barely see anything beyond it.

We used to use (back in the old days of photography) 'womens hose' as means to soften the picture up. This would be something of course that would translate over in this case too, but if it captures the target, I'll take soft-focus versus Blurry-BlobSquatch.

AnyWho... A few thoughts that I thought I'd toss into the mix here,
Johnny
Hey Johnny
The three camera idea has been trailed by Rusty222.
He had a 12 camera setup, I think, several time lapse cameras and a cctv setup and an audio recorder array aswell. He has captured some of the most impressive audio to come out of Australia and has even managed to calculate distance and direction to the subject and direction of travel etc. But unfortunately nothing definitive by way of video.

The trail camera idea is a good one and has been mentioned before, by who I can't remember, it's definitely worth a try and I'll give it a go myself next time I'm out. I think the women's hose, or stockings as we call them, might not work as well depending on the set up. Particularly at night with low light or IR cameras and for trail cameras it would block the sensor.

But everything is worth a try

Cheers Nick

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Re: Camera

Unread post by JohnnyAnonymous » Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:32 pm

Appreciate the comments.

You might think differently about the Hosiery covering the tree-stumps openings. They are there to simply mask the lens from being seen, they do not envelope or cover the camera. Think of it as more as a silk window covering a hole (that the camera just happens to be behind). Hope I described that part better.

I've played with the women's hose before for photo and video shots and it only lightly mutes (or what they call 'soft-focus'). It still allows for the IR or thermal to do it's job without flaring out or blooming (exposure wise). You just need to stretch it slightly and the soft-focus diminishes exponentially. Light colored hose works best (not the dark hose).

I'm curious to see what type of results you have. By chance if youyou recall the thread name of where they were doing the discussion... please shoot me a PM message.

Johnny
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Re: Camera

Unread post by JohnnyAnonymous » Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:19 pm

JohnnyAnonymous wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:32 pm

Please excuse my very rough attempts of drawing, thank goodness I'm better with recording devices. The hose would be stretched and covering the cut-outs. This original concept I had was for over here in the USA, but I'm sure could be modified.
Stump Gifting.jpg
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Re: Camera

Unread post by Slats » Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:08 pm

I see what you mean, I only have one trail camera at the moment but I'll see if I can work something out

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Re: Camera

Unread post by Rusty2 » Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:19 pm

Howdy , I have tried the stump method with 7 time lapse cameras inside . It was deployed 3 separate times , taking photos at every 5 seconds during daylight hours for 6 days straight for each deployment . It never caught anything but if you were to persist it may catch something .
The problem is you can't hide the smell even with scent masking .
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Re: Camera

Unread post by JohnnyAnonymous » Sat Dec 07, 2019 4:09 pm

Wow Rusty.. Nice job on the design!

The researcher I was working with back in the day (90's) said the same thing (about the smell), he was so adamant about the smell factor (and human smells too), that he lightly sand everything we were planning to leave out in the 'Woods, then he'd apply some organic like glue/adhesive he had 'concocted' and then take screen-downed ground-material from the area we wanted to look into further. He'd apply that sifted material onto the natural adhesive/goo (which covered the camera (caveat: exposed area would still be the lense and IR). He'd perform that twice and if I recall correctly the whole process took him roughly 4 weeks combined for the two lamination's (I use that word because I don't know what else to call it). His idea was that the smell of the organics with the sifted dirt might confuse or lessen the chance to avoid the area.

The sad thing is that we never got to try them out due to an unfortunate family matter (on his side). And I never thought it prudent or be the right thing to ask if I could still use them. And unfortunately we never got a chance to hunt/research the hairy guy again, and I never asked what was in his gooy adhesive mess either.

So it was never tried is the bottom line... but I've always had it in the back of my mind. Of course my idea with the silk hose would still have some smells to it... so there's that factor I'd have to still contend with. But I might have a simple work-around.

What do you think of the idea of having the Camera setups at a higher altitude pointed at downward angle (smaller FOV obviously)? My thought has been if you could raise them up, the scent would then be above them (or in the least, a much smaller amount). Had that idea about 20 years ago when I was first playing around with film trail-cams in the woods (Cuddeback if I recall). You had to be real selective with zero wind when you have a max of 36 exposures.

My idea was that if 'something' decided to investigate closer to the higher altitude cam, the chances would increase on my being able to obtain hair getting caught on the bark of the tree (and possibly even prints below).

Anyway... my mind is always trying to think up new experiments,
Johnny
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Re: Camera

Unread post by Rusty2 » Sat Dec 07, 2019 6:54 pm

Sorry to hear about your friend .

There's a number of problems with all this as far as I can tell . How do you get into the forest in the first place without being noticed or heard ? It's their front yard so I would say it's basically impossible to do so , from my experience , someone's always watching . If that is the case and I believe it is then your probably being watched or at least listened to while installing the camera in the tree , game over .

I found it was best to have the cameras low to the ground using bushes and trees to obstruct them from viewing the cameras . Not hiding but obstructing . You don't want them to see your setup in any location other than where you have a camera facing . This would have to be done in a flat area or at the top of a hill which denies them from viewing your setup from any great distance . I've always been under the assumption that all they want is to see what you've left behind . I used multiple natural forest corridors that intersect . Having a multicamera telescopic time lapse setup at the intersection allowed me to cover those corridors and allowed them to peek from a safe distance . They can still peek at a safe distance but it's where you have a camera facing .

Trail cameras aren't sensitive enough and telescopic time lapse cameras must be used for this method .

The other way is to have a multiple telescopic time lapse camera setup in an open area and choose from your surroundings which would be the most likely positions they might peek from and cover those with your cameras .
So the rule for me was always , they WILL peek at your gear . You just have to figure out the most likely direction this will happen . The more cameras you have facing in multiple directions , the more likely it is that you'll have a camera facing in THE location that they peek from .
Below are 3 pictures of 3 different telescopic multicamera setups and a link to my time lapse page . The Dark Figure is a long video , the others are short but all using the above methods .
https://www.farsouthcoasthominoideviden ... lapse.html
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Re: Camera

Unread post by JohnnyAnonymous » Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:16 pm

Appreciate your thoughts and experience. (thumb)

We were going a whole different route, more likely towards the developement of a habituation factor (without feeding them). We would not hide ourselves, in fact we want to be the normal loud everyday campers, building huts, popping up tents, playing music etc., all in plane sight. I want them to see me climb up a tree and place a camera up there, hoping to illicit curiosity. Meanwhile there's a secondary ground cam aimed at the Treecam (and the tree cam includes the Groundcam in it's FOV. This type of experimenting takes generally a long time to develop (if any can happen at all).

Where I'm at in the USA (California Sierra's), we've been having some experiences where they get curious and come in closer. One of the best vocalizations I've heard was from Ron Moreheads 1970's California Sierra Sounds collection and he and his family (and associate Al Berry later on) had a clan interact and converse with them semi-regularly (Semi because it's all on their schedule anyway... not ours).

So my train of thought is probably jaded by our Pacific Northwest Sasquatch's. From what I've been gleaning from watching your videos and reading your posts of your own experiences, the Yowie's run a completely different game-plan, yes? But I guess that would make sense Geography wise anyway.

Johnny
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Re: Camera

Unread post by Rusty2 » Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:23 am

JohnnyAnonymous wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:16 pm
From what I've been gleaning from watching your videos and reading your posts of your own experiences, the Yowie's run a completely different game-plan, yes?
What the yowie does depends on what your doing . I go into the forest anonymously wearing normal clothes . They have no idea what I'm doing , who I am or what I've left behind . This leaves them in the dark and they react . The reaction can be aggressive or passive . The reaction is automatically caught on audio and sometimes on the cameras . I visit that place once and move to the next piece of forest and repeat the procedure .

If you can catch them in a time lapse sequence then there's the possibility of hair and footprint collection which will add weight to you time lapse sequence . This completely ignores anything about them and relies on their curiosity alone . No friendships . They walk into the trap (camera and audio trap). This is a whole lot cheaper than habituation and it's more about information collection , building a body of evidence . Having audio recorders and cameras running 24/7 has served me well and produced some thought provoking audio and time lapse sequences .

If you want to build a relationship they can be quite friendly , anything but aggressive . But this comes at a cost . Do you want to make friends or will you be pretending to be friends , because they know the difference , their just like us . A true friendship means no electronics . I wore an audio recorder on my visits and still managed to collect information . A true friendship will grow , a false friendship won't .

I made friends with a small group and it was very rewarding , no electronics , I became very attached to them but decided in the end to leave them alone . I pursued information collection instead which for me was the right decision .

I think Ron Morehead's audio is just amazing .

I'm not trying to tell you what to do , I'm just relaying what happened with me , hope this helps . :D

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Re: Camera

Unread post by Pertys80 » Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:06 am

Rusty2 wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:23 am
JohnnyAnonymous wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:16 pm
From what I've been gleaning from watching your videos and reading your posts of your own experiences, the Yowie's run a completely different game-plan, yes?
What the yowie does depends on what your doing . I go into the forest anonymously wearing normal clothes . They have no idea what I'm doing , who I am or what I've left behind . This leaves them in the dark and they react . The reaction can be aggressive or passive . The reaction is automatically caught on audio and sometimes on the cameras . I visit that place once and move to the next piece of forest and repeat the procedure .

If you can catch them in a time lapse sequence then there's the possibility of hair and footprint collection which will add weight to you time lapse sequence . This completely ignores anything about them and relies on their curiosity alone . No friendships . They walk into the trap (camera and audio trap). This is a whole lot cheaper than habituation and it's more about information collection , building a body of evidence . Having audio recorders and cameras running 24/7 has served me well and produced some thought provoking audio and time lapse sequences .

If you want to build a relationship they can be quite friendly , anything but aggressive . But this comes at a cost . Do you want to make friends or will you be pretending to be friends , because they know the difference , their just like us . A true friendship means no electronics . I wore an audio recorder on my visits and still managed to collect information . A true friendship will grow , a false friendship won't .

I made friends with a small group and it was very rewarding , no electronics , I became very attached to them but decided in the end to leave them alone . I pursued information collection instead which for me was the right decision .

I think Ron Morehead's audio is just amazing .

I'm not trying to tell you what to do , I'm just relaying what happened with me , hope this helps . :D
Words of wisdom there👍

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Re: Camera

Unread post by JohnnyAnonymous » Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:32 am

Rusty2 wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:23 am
JohnnyAnonymous wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:16 pm
From what I've been gleaning from watching your videos and reading your posts of your own experiences, the Yowie's run a completely different game-plan, yes?
I made friends with a small group and it was very rewarding , no electronics , I became very attached to them but decided in the end to leave them alone . I pursued information collection instead which for me was the right decision .
Are your audio recordings of your friendship's available to be heard, as that sounds very interesting?

My last vocalization experience was on the outskirts of Mariposa California (very close to Yosemite National Park). And since Ron Morehead lives in Mariposa, I've had the opportunity to converse with him about the Samuari chatter I heard between (perhaps) a Male and a female (the Male was very agitated).

Don't know if the Yowie's also do a similar thing (which I believe is mimicry to a point), but I swear I heard occasional English words mixed in their conversation. Have you run across anything similar?


Again appreciate your comments,
Johnny
While looking for the jigsaw pieces missing from the box, always remember... No Matter Where You Go, There You Are!

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