Sunshine Coast (Qld) Expedition 18th of April 09'

[Night Walker]

I have tried tree whacking on numerous occasions and the sound differs markedly depending on the tree I hit and the branch I use to hit it. Even differences in the surround vegetation/terrain alter the tone.

I rightly took Chewy to task for describing a particular sound as "a biped walking with purpose downhill". Unfortunately, in the interests of accuracy I will have to do so again - a particular sound or series of sounds may be similar to that of a handled branch striking a tree (as variable as that actually is) but to actually describe it as a "tree whack" implies that someone/something is whacking a tree with a branch which may or may not be the case. There is very little room for alternate interpretation when the reporter directly leads the reader to his/her pre-determined conclusion.

It is a concern for me that quite a lot of circumstantial evidence is simply taken at face value and interpreted or implied as being because of Yowies. Given that there are literally hundreds, even thousands, of documented sightings and encounters with crypto-hominids around the world none have EVER, to the best of my knowledge, witnessed one whacking a tree with a branch.

Once I saw what had to be a smaller one, run through the foliage (you could hear it running and see the small trees swaying as he made his way through them), and he ran up to a tree – wack, wack, wack..... Then he ran off up the hill. Next second to the other side of us – wack, wack, wack...... a response.

Did you actually see it? How clearly? Did you actually see it strike a tree with a branch?

But what are the alternatives? What could be making a sound similar to a branch striking a tree? I am not afraid to say that I don't know.

However, while doing some research on Chewy's nemesis - the rock wallaby - I learned that not only are they very adept at scaling rocks but also climbing trees. Yes, you read that correctly - rock wallabies can climb trees. Personally, I have never seen one do so and am quite perplexed at exactly how they could do so but it got me wondering what sounds that would make. Could their powerful hind limbs or tail somehow strike the trunk or large branch singularly or in succession? I don't know.

Perhaps there is something else doing something perfectly natural that creates a similar sound. I don't know but interpreting or implying "tree whacks" are due to something more (like Yowies) may be far from accurate.

We need less assumptions, not more.

[Mike Williams]

I have spoken to a few people who have heard these wack sounds..
They all insisted the sound was a timber against timber type sound...
If the timber against timber type sound is not being created by other humans...Parsimony..? then it is very interesting ...

Mike

[Night Walker]

It IS interesting and certainly worthy of contemplation.

But until actual confirmation I question whether it is helpful to ascribe/suggest every unknown bush sound to Yowies. If rock wallabies can climb trees then what other unusual behaviours from the regular menagerie aren't we aware of?

[Mike Williams]

If rock wallabies can climb trees

I am aware of Lumholtz's Tree-kangaroos...so its not a long stretch for other macropods to climb as well.
But...the problem is...If the sound is..actually like the witnesses report..a loud wood against wood sound...then the arboreal skills of wallabies are immaterial..
We are still left with an interesting , odd soud sound being heard... in a specific odd area...
If it was just a "normal" trait of wallabies then it would be reported and quite common...
It isnt..ergo

[Night Walker]

Ergo... it's a Yowie?

A dead branch falling and striking further branches on the way down? Possibly a stretch but trees drop branches all the time so who knows. Is it more than a stretch that a Yowie?

Imagine a rock wallaby on a branch which bends under it's weight. The rock wallaby leaps off the branch pushing it further down before the branch springs back striking another branch or the trunk. Wood on wood.

Like I said I don't quite understand the dynamics of rock wallaby tree climbing but there is a menagerie of species out there with behaviours of which we may not know.

The sound of wood on wood knocking may be suspicious but you guys seem to get a good deal of milage out of suspicions in the field. Feelings of unease, silences in the forest, unusual smells, bipeds walking with purpose. That is an observation, not an accusation.

[Mike Williams]

Ergo... it's a Yowie?

ergo...flogging a dead horse on that one...it aint a wallaby..

A dead branch falling and striking further branches on the way down? Possibly a stretch but trees drop branches all the time so who knows.

Very common sound....not what we are talking about though..if you actually read the "report" we find a sequence of 3 wacks..then"not long after"then another sequence of 3 wacks..Thats 2 dead flogged horses.

Is it more than a stretch that a Yowie?

If a falling tree branch was relevent..sure..but you know it is not.
3 dead flogged horses..I never mentioned the word yowie..(And here is where you say "but by implication"..yeah yeah)

Imagine a rock wallaby on a branch which bends under it's weight. The rock wallaby leaps off the branch pushing it further down before the branch springs back striking another branch or the trunk. Wood on wood.

Sure..doing it 3 times....then waits..then does it again...
4 dead flogged horses..

Like I said I don't quite understand the dynamics of rock wallaby tree climbing but there is a menagerie of species out there with behaviours of which we may not know.

I am sure there are many. ..not germane..5 dead flogged horses

The sound of wood on wood knocking may be suspicious

Loud sequences of sounds of wood against wood are interesting if it is not being done by humans...

Feelings of unease, silences in the forest, unusual smells, bipeds walking with purpose. That is an observation, not an accusation.

"forgot" the wack sequences.??
All we have are observations....But..you appear to be quite happy to use the observations of others to try and reduce the probability of what the guys here are reporting...as being possibly ...weird..
For example..

Given that there are literally hundreds, even thousands, of documented sightings and encounters with crypto-hominids around the world none have EVER, to the best of my knowledge, witnessed one whacking a tree with a branch.

There are thousands of anecdotes of encounters and sightings...the fact that they are documented means zilch...Like an anecdote is more "real" by being typed out.!!
Crypto-hominds is just another guess...based on anecdotes..
No anecdotes of crypto animals seen making anecdotal sounds=low probability of anecdotal crypto animals here..making those anecdotal sounds..
That sure makes sense..5 dead flogged horses in total..


Mike

[urodacus]

Imagine a rock wallaby on a branch which bends under it's weight. The rock wallaby leaps off the branch pushing it further down before the branch springs back striking another branch or the trunk. Wood on wood.

Night Walker, Matey your killing me.

[Night Walker]

Yep. You are right. I drew a long bow that time. Caught red handed. I am willing to admit that particular interpretation was wildly speculative. Each to their own, right Mike?

This is not a personal thing. I am sure you are all sincere good-hearted people but that is not the issue. I am simply questioning your methods. Remember: Questions are good.

You are as right to question my interpretations as I am to question yours. I like questions.

I'd be curious to know when was the last time AYR went out into the bush and DIDN'T report knocks, eerie feelings, strange smells, bipeds walking, unidentified balls of light, or unusual silences.

[mikka]

Night Walker Just a question, what do you think the AYR is ? in the context of this .....

I'd be curious to know when was the last time AYR went out into the bush and DIDN'T report knocks, eerie feelings, strange smells, bipeds walking, unidentified balls of light, or unusual silences.

I was out at one of my local haunts a few nights ago and I can report nothing happened at all. Is that AYR in your books ?


Few weeks ago I went out with a fellow researcher and the only action we got that night was from Mozzies. Is that AYR ?


Now does me going out with a few members off this forum make it AYR ? if some post some things that they noted from the trip



Im just wondering as ive seen you throw AYR around a lot what do you exactly mean

[Night Walker]

Good questions, Mikka. It is just curious that every time AYR go on an planned "expedition" there are always "mysterious" happenings reported and wonder how often these expeditions turn up a blank.

It's a good research topic though... perhaps I'll add it to my list.

By compaing the outings and the various "mysterious" happenings with the listed participants it may reveal a pattern. Perhaps Yowies are drawn to certain individuals more than others. Perhaps heightened expectations of being in an alleged Yowie Hotspot unduely influences perceptions and interpretations. Perhaps not, of course, but it may be something worth examining.

Like you, I am trying to get to the crux of the Yowie phenomenon. We should actively encourage and embrace questioning rather than feel threatened by it.

[Shazzoir]

I know that if I were out on an Expedition of some sort, with or without any AYR members, if we went out, and saw nothing, heard nothing 'unusual', I wouldn't bother writing up a report here on the forums, though I would most likely do so for my own records. People aren't very interested in reading a report which doesn't seem to have anything to report! I am sure that there have been many expeditions done that AYR forum readers just never know about, because NOTHING HAPPENED. I've seen a number of these mentioned in the archived threads, and BushBaby had one not long ago, that he reported here.

As I said, I'm sure all expeditions are reported amongst the members who were there, but are not considered to have any value on the forums, therefore, are not posted.

If anyone feels this is unusual, maybe we could start a forum board with reports from AYR folks, whether anything unusual was noted or not, just to show how active AYR members actually are. I know some of you regulars are out just about every weekend because I've spoken with you!

Anyway, that's my take on it.

Kind regards,
Shazz

[Dean Harrison]

Shazzoir........ French for 'Shaz' (dry smile)....

Not only do we not bother write reports when we come up trumps, we often fail to write a report when we do. I think its complacency more than anything. Been doing it for too long.
We had the two sets of tree wacks while out last Week, however to us, that really isn’t anything to write home about. We have received that type communication frequently while on Expedition over many years.

Walking with one for 20 – 30 mins thinking its your AYR partner *IS* something to talk about. Especially describing the bewilderment when you discover that everyone was accounted for back at Base when you arrived! Then who was............? Huh? Gosh, no wonder he wasn’t contributing back to the conversation. He did seem rather quieter than usual.......
Being chased by one, yelled at, tailed, rocks thrown, game playing, evidence finding (prints etc), is worth writing home about and all very interesting. It doesn’t always work out that way.

The main reason we have done rather well is due to the fact that we don’t aimlessly choose a pocket of bushland and hope for the best. We are always there for a reason, which ‘up’s’ our equations. I think we have done rather well over the years in terms of ‘encounters’ for the entire team(s) members, being able to have their own experiences with us.
I do have my reservations in regards to photographic equipment and footage. Especially at night. They can detect I.R. and see in the dark as if it were day in comparison to us.
They don’t stand still in the open often – even during the night. Always behind something (with the exception of Fatfoot one night in the BM’s).


Standing there idle holding a Cam loaded with an I.R. light flaming away at night is a waste of time. You may as well be shining a flash light around. It will be fruitless. Many of the American BF’ers are now also coming to the same mind thought. I really think its a waste of money.

Better off something stealth/disguised with no I.R. to set up during the day (and/or several of...), providing you have an idea where they traverse. Obtaining a hazy green image behind trees deep in the forest at night will not convince anyone.

Having said that – it all comes down to what you wish to achieve. Personal excitement for both you and your team, or an attempt for fame and fortune. I think the latter is more realistic using I.R. driven equipment.....

People have been using Thermal all over the World in an attempt to obtain footage. There is only one small piece of footage from the BFRO that I’m aware of – and being a Thermal of something in the distance, what does it prove? Could have been anyone. Depending on which model, Thermal is more often a blob of colours than anything definitive. You can make our the shape in most cases, however again, thats all it is.

Even a decent daytime picture is going to be ridiculed until the Cows come home. Too many hoaxes out there that have ruined it for the real researches. Steve Biscardi is a classic example... The body in the fridge.

Where am I going with all this?

Look at me, respond to Shazzoir’s post regarding reports and end up 50km’s away as per usual.

DMH

[Night Walker]

NW's Summation of the Sunshine Coast Expedition 18/04/2009:

After the personal accounts have been presented and some of the details debated the only reasonable conclusion - one which all those who attended and have expressed their opinion agree upon - is that the night was largely uneventful.

Forest noises, most not readily explainable, come in a very diverse range of volumes and tones (including distant booming cracks as huge timber trunks expand and contract with the rises and falls of temperature similar to noises generated by old timber houses at night) whose properties are often altered by the acoustic properties of the surrounding trees and geographical formations.

Three distinct wood-like knocks in succession may or may not be significant but considering the uneventfulness of the evening the evidence suggests that, at least on this occasion, it was not. Just as inventing convoluted explanations to explain away something which is an unknown is clearly ridiculous so is tacitly implying Yowie involvement.

Concerns about current AYR practices include:

* Systematic and often widespread use of leading language.

* Heightened sense of expectation creating distorted perceptions. [Joe - you seem interested in psychological aspects in this field. I recommend that you look into demonstrable psychological concepts such as "Suggestibility", "Group Think", and "Self-Fulfilling Prophecy" and their effects rather than Jung's Archetypes.]

* Lack of independent verification in the field.

* Combative (from defensive to hostile) responses to criticism.

Details of the major concern will not be raised publicly other than to suggest that the recent additions and modifications to Dean Harrison's account, rather than clarify, raise additional questions and further doubts about the validity of the alleged 02/01/2009 encounter.

On a positive note, AYR should be applauded for regularly getting out into the field in a research capacity. Furthermore, the AYR Forum is a valuable resource and provides an accessible entry level for those curious about Yowies. Keep up the good work.

[Jo Blose]

Thank-you for that very public suggestion Nightwalker as to where you think I ought to steer my interests in this field. I love the way you have appointed yourself as an overseeing authority here and make sure you balance your multiple negatives with one or two positives.

I'm going to heed your advice NW! Next time there's an "AYR" excursion, (after a democratic vote) we'll just lob up links to 48hrs worth of sound file, any video footage, and photos - with absolutely no narrative or captions, and everybody who's interested can take their precious time going through it all to report back to us whether anything yowie related occurred. People can make up their own minds and work it all out for themselves. Who needs reports to be written - right? Reports are just perceptions by the participants anyway! All sorts of things can occur - collusion, tunnel vision, group think, and opinion confused as fact. Things I wouldn't possibly know anything about apparently! Strip it bare I say, and let the audience decide entirely for themselves for an unbiased and clean verdict. It may take months for such a verdict to be reached by those interested, but hey, what a small price for the facts.

Two sets of three distinct tree knocks in close succession heard by four members independently, is not in the arena of independent verification? To whose standards?

[mikka]

NW do you like fishing by any chance ?

[bush baby]

Lets move on guys

[Night Walker]

I'm sorry, but am I missing something here?

Either the alleged 02/01/2009 encounter was one of the most sensational Yowie developments ever or it was something else. If it is legitimate, then we should be dissecting what occurred to further our understanding of Yowie behaviour and what are the implications for future field research. If not legitimate, then we need to understand exactly what occurred and what that means for research.

Either way - we NEED to ask questions. I question why no-one is asking questions. Can someone explain this to me?

Admittedly, I am new to "Yowie research" but is it not our duty TO ask questions? Are we supposed to CLARIFY events or to OBSCURE them? What am I missing here? Can someone please explain it to me.

I still have a LOT of questions...

[mikka]

NW nothing wrong with questions at all, im wondering why you waited a week since the last reply in this thread then came out with your opinions/"questions", the same day a long standing member had passed on was announced ? I think that was poor form and im not the only one.

As for 02/01/2009, there has been other independent reports of aggressive behavior in the very same area overtime. How does that change things now?

[Night Walker]

The timing of my post had nothing to do with the passing of a long time forum member. I am sorry for your loss but it is not a related matter. My criticisms/concerns are about the ways in which AYR collect, analyse, and report information - scrutiny is good for valididating data and constructive criticism is a means to ensure higher standards. It is not a personal attack but I cannot change the way you interpret things.

Could you direct me to the links or send me the reports about the alleged aggressive Yowie behaviour in the area? As it currently stands it doesn't change a thing but it does give extra credence to a sense of heightened expectation while in the area. An elderly couple were holidaying a couple of kilometers away at the time - there is no mention of them being unsettled or spooked.

I do a lot of work with unpredictable and sometimes dangerous people who are unable to communicate well - detailed non-judgemental report writing following an "incident" is essential in order to understand behaviours and the reasons/causes of aggression and violence. There is a BIG difference between aggression and violence.

Q. Whose foot is next to the footprint cast in the pic below? Was the footprint found facing up or down the incline?

[forestguy]

On an unrelated note - I think it's amusing that it's theorised the tree kangaroo evolved to fill the gap left by our lack of primates/prosimians... so we're out chasing a giant ape/primate and can get spooked by a macropod up a tree that's very existence is due to our continents absence of primates.

Maybe I'm just easily amused.

[Dean Harrison]

If you're not in the field and have had little to no experience (and this is certainly not directed to be a put down to anyone), sometimes little things and/or larger have a WOW factor that people that have been doing this for years lose. I know on my own behalf, heck, this is just what we do. We have had outstsnding experiences all over the East Coast of Australia. I have been doing this since my 20's and have been in the middle of all manner of circumstances. Worst for me? Ormeau, only because it was the first time I believed I was about to die. 2nd best/worst was In Jan' of 09. First time I have been struck.

All the other times would knock the hats off most people, however when you have been doing it for so long and seen so much, you simply take it in stride.

If you deal with Crocs, Lions or similar - being on the outside of that, I would get the heebie geebies. If I was within that field, it becomes second nature.

These days when we receive reports, to most of us, it's pretty much a yawn factor unless it involves something exceptional.

What happened in Jan', was enough of a first hand experience for me to double the WOW factor I guess and left me with sleepless nights for months and honestly, there still isn't a day that passes that I don't revisit the situation. When you go through such things and have done so for such a long time, when you hear about a "sighting", it doesn't mean as much to you as it would to someone on the outside. You become hardend to it in most respects.

The amount of people who have phoned me in tears over the years is understandable, however to us, its just what we do and is second nature.

Again, back to when I was hit...... not much more than I can add really. By gosh, yes, it was DAM scary........ The behaviour was not expected. Never experienced anything like this one. Normally they would stalk first. Not this time. So, I suppose in many ways, it comes down to what I have always stated - never judge one on another.

This one was the exception and not the rule.

He had absolutely no fear and didn't think - just saw red when he saw me and went from a march to a sprint, not giving it a second thought. Not what I/we are used to. The initial shock of it all leaves you stunned like a Rabbit while your mind is still digesting the situ.

I feel I was hit with forearms from the middle of my chest to my right shoulder. I recall small things here and there, yet after the landing, I'm still a little confused. I can't even recall I landed in a rockpool. I thought it went up to my right - up hill. Joe and Mikka showed me where we followed him a few Weeks ago. So there you go. Sorry to say, I didn't do a back flip to my feet and a cart wheel onto his shoulders (as I would normally do).

It was all about self preservation. Kicking into nothingness (up into the air) and trying to keep it away not knowing where it was. It was over me and around me. Saw little to nothing because it was just so darn dark and I was in a bit of a state. Also looking towards camp looking for the flash lights on their way to help.

I know I was due. It happened. Glad it happened now - not then! Yet another experience and one that pulled my head in. Never had my head pulled in like this since Ormeau. Its more about the location than “it”. Hmmm.... having said that, we have had many experiences with them out there before, but nothing like this. We do know of aggressive acts on their behalf before, but they have mostly been ok to us.

I remember thinking about Neil Frost many years ago and all his experiences and the reports all the reports he has received over the decades. Not that much documented and I always thought – what a waste! A decade later, I understand. He said to me once – so what, its going to accomplish what? Kind of get it now.

I’m not totally complacent, and I know there are a lot of people that have a thirst for such info. We are now FINALLY starting to re-build the Website with all new interviews and info for people.

I understand points of view regarding the research side. It will happen, but again, please remember what is sometimes amazing for some is simply second nature and no biggie for others. We also don’t “owe” anything to people – we just do what we do.

Currently in Brisbane. Back soon.

DMH

[Mike Williams]

Sadly..with much of this "stuff" there is NOTHING left to analyse.
A few bits of plaster..thats about it....
Its not a murder scene stuffed with forensic evidence..!!
All researchers who report something odd, when they are looking for something odd..will have subtle ad hominem comments like observer bias etc..
If people are looking for bias free observations(baffled where this happens..but why let reality pop its ugly head up)..or...decent secondary evidence...then cryptid hunting is not for them.
The events Dean experienced cannot be proven... something significant did happen...we/I believe this.!!
It comes down to belief...once again..if people are looking for something based on more than "just" belief..and some light secondary "evidence"..'they are in the wrong field..
If some people think they can gather some form of evidence...or make unbiased reports about unusual events...then let them produce it...
Until then....




Mike

[Dean Harrison]

Murder Scene Mikey. Minus the Murder.....

Highlight of my days, yet worst. Still tossing up between Ormeau and this place to take the Trophie.

DMH

[Night Walker]

See, this is where our approaches to research differ greatly.

Given their remarkably elusive nature, Yowie reports are so few and far between that actual physical evidence - photos, footprints, scat, etc - of their presence is priceless and needs to be closely examined in order to collect as much knowledge about our hairy friends as possible.

Inspired by the likes of Jeff Muldrum's (2006) "Sasquatch: Legend Meets Science" - essential reading for anyone interested in crypto-hominology - I decided to take a closer look at the footprint cast from the alleged 02/01/2009 incident. It is almost surprising how much detail can be garnered from a single piece of evidence by paying close attention to detail. I am willing to provide a thorough analysis of the footprint cast because there is certainly much to be learned from this one.

However, it is not to difficult to do yourself - and I encourage all readers to do so (imagine yourself to be a forensic investigator if it helps). Look closely at the pic of the foot and the footprint cast. Notice that contour lines can be seen on the cast - indicating the splaying of the toes and the imprint of the heel before the slip. Compare them to the foot shown next to it - cut, paste, and superimpose the image if you can. Rotate the foot a little so that the big toe of the foot is placed over the big toe of the cast. What do you see?

Now look at your own feet as you flex and stretch them. Notice how your left and right feet are very similar in appearance but have slight differences. Take note of how your toes can spread out. Place your foot on the ground and observe the slight differences your foot can take in appearance - especially your toes.

Now return again to the image of the foot and the footprint cast. When the big toes are aligned the toes of the cast are more spread out than the foot but they are of the same length. Even the little toe on the cast displays the same crook in towards the 4th toe as the cast. Slide the image down to the heel contour - where the heel struck the muddy ground and slipped forward. What do you see?

So, I will ask again: Whose foot is next to the footprint cast in the pic below?


Perhaps we should simply cut to the chase: Whose foot made the impression in the muddy ground which was then cast in plaster and presented as evidence for the alleged 02/01/2009 incident?

It is interesting how questions beget more questions and this raises MANY more questions. Time to come clean. If anyone has anything to say then now is the time - clear your conscience or vent your spleen. Let's cut out all the BS and lay it all out on the table. I know I have nothing to hide.

What REALLY happened in the early hours of 02/01/2009?

How long has Dean Harrison and AYR been fabricating evidence?

This raises serious questions and implications for "Yowie research". All that we know and all that we think we know about Yowies needs to be re-examined and re-evaluated.

I realise that this will not earn me many friends here but I am concerned about finding the truth about Yowies. Don't believe me, don't believe anyone but look at the evidence for yourself. Always ask questions and never be afraid of the truth.

[Jo Blose]

Considering it was me who added that photo to the report, would it surprise anyone the foot next to the footprint cast, is mine? I've read your post NW, and it seems you're implying the cast in the photo is most likely a cast of a footprint left behind by my right foot.

The inclusion of my bare left foot in the photo next to the óverturned' right foot imprint cast, was for size and shape comparison only. Knowing the difference between left and right can save so much embarrassment can't it? To draw wild unsupportive conclusions between my left foot and the right foot that made that imprint is quite a leap!

[Mike Williams]

Nicely restrained there Joe..next time you fake a print..please place your boot back on for the photo..caught out by sherlock holmes..

Time to come clean.

Okay.....I liked it better when you were just patronising and pompous...

If anyone has anything to say then now is the time - clear your conscience or vent your spleen.

Okay..thanks for telling us..when the time is right..
You have not the slightest idea what you are talking about...ever..the tree kangaroos with bongo drum skills, the brain dead questions, the snide insinuations..the "rigourous" cross examination..and now the sad claims of fraud..based on a book your read..and a photo we provided..and a chip on your shoulder..

Let's cut out all the BS and lay it all out on the table. I know I have nothing to hide.

Of course you dont ..you have never done anything...

What REALLY happened in the early hours of 02/01/2009?

Dear..god.....Read the posts..again..remove the block of wood from your eye and the lemon from your mouth..why so bitter..??? ..

How long has Dean Harrison and AYR been fabricating evidence?

Yawn...

I realise that this will not earn me many friends here but I am concerned about finding the truth about Yowies.

You never had the slightest interest in truth...this low act proved it....

[Night Walker]

It's a very human-shaped footprint, Joe.

I'm aware of the slight differences in appearance between one's left and right feet as you would have read above. Would you and Dean care to send in pics of your feet to compare? Dean's may be more relevant considering he was fortunate enough to "find" it.

I will ask AYR straight out: Did anyone plant the footprint to be "found"? Was the print that was cast formed by any AYR team members? If not then send in the foot pics, please.

Let the evidence speak. If it stands up to scrutiny then I will admit it. However, the numerous holes in the story, bruising pattern that does not match the events, leading language, and aversion to criticism are beginning to make sense. I can go into much further detail if you like...

Mike, you are very intelligent and sharp and rightly question others over their claims yet are silent when AYR make ridiculous claims. The opinion of non-cheerleaders would carry more weight though. "Sadly..with much of this "stuff" there is NOTHING left to analyse. A few bits of plaster..thats about it...." Nice attempt to deflect attention from the actual evidence, though...

[Mike Williams]

Let the evidence speak.

There is little "evidence"...its just a piece of plaster

However, the numerous holes in the story
Next..

There always is when traumatic/weird events unfold..but you would know that..
Next..

bruising pattern that does not match the events,

podiatrist skills and medical skills..you have training in both I gather.??or either..??
I Thought so..
The "events"..= Dean claims to have been thrown backwards and lands in a puddle...how anyone could manage to work out(guess) what are the "correct" injuries is beyond me..
Next..

leading language

As is often found in witness statements especially in unusual events..but you would know this..and...as a critic...your questions and theories are always "leading"...yet you dont seem to think thats a problem...only when the other person is "leading" is their a problem.
If the shoe fits..
Next..this is fun...

and aversion to criticism

You appear to always to be looking for a hole/weakness/mistake..and if you cannot find one..you pull out the standard last card..FRAUD..
Anything to actual admit..gee the witnesses might have seen something..yet..if you opened meldrums book and found any witness claims..that you appear to believe...I guarantee I could disembowel them..all of them.....so..using your own operating procedures..all the witnesses you are impressed by...are either mistaken or lying..in my opinion...because thats all that counts with this..and not all opinions are equal..thats the kicker..!!!

I can go into much further detail if you like...

Seriously..why bother...we are faking phenomena and lying with all our claims...good luck on another site!!

yet are silent when AYR make ridiculous claims.

For the reasons I mentioned in a previous post..it all comes down to belief..and very light secondary evidence..
Let me reverse it..you are impressed with Meldrums book/photos and sasquatch witness statements....do you know the photographers/the witnesses or meldrum...
Right..thought so...
So..you have no problem believing reports/ideas/photos by people you do not know...no mattter how outrageous their claims....
Yet....I am supposed to disbelieve friends of mine that I have known for nearly ten years..?????
Can you see the bleeding obvious weakness in your "logic".????
"Sadly..with much of this "stuff" there is NOTHING left to analyse. A few bits of plaster..thats about it...."

Nice attempt to deflect attention from the actual evidence, though...

Huh...we fake it......then I try and draw attention away from it..by mentioning it again...?
Sure..and that is supposed to make sense..?
I will try again...there is little besides anecdotes and bits of plaster..from either the US/Australia or the whole of Europe..after 500 years...
And..since we are both on a roll...months ago ..you were going to provide the evidence from 500 years of monsterous hairy giants from multiple continents that supports you beliefs..
Yet you chose to remain silent...and provided NOTHING...ouch...(you thought I had forgotten)
And you have the hide to talk about integrity...!!!
I cannot think of any reason why you would bother to stay on this forum.. since we are just fools who are lying and faking "evidence"....
good luck...and goodbye...



Mike

[Jo Blose]

They're very human looking hominids too...

It's interesting the way you (NW) are a member of this AYR forum, yet keep asking questions of AYR???? Anybody more specific you wish to direct your questions? There's researchers here in all states of Australia who have never met.

As for sending a pic of my foot in, forget it. My feet are fairly symmetrical and you already have a pic of my left foot. There were seven people on that expedition, and over five months later, you want to do a Cinderella glass slipper investigation to see if one of our feet fits the bill????

How about a bit of diplomacy? You could have simply asked if anybody took their shoes and socks off at any time and walked in the area where the print was found. Speaking for myself, due to snakes, spiders, ants and other insects, whenever I go walking bush, the boots are on and I didn't see anybody else walking around barefoot. The only time mine and I daresay others shoes and socks came off, was when we got some shut eye, inside our tents or cars.

I have that particular cast in my collection and it's crappy. (So crappy I couldn't even bring myself to make copies of it) I looked at it again just before I typed this reply! No dermal ridge lines, littered with plenty of little pebbles, and undefined. It's a bare foot print (adult human sized/shaped) in an area where there should have been no bare human footprints. A good sixty to seventy metres from our camp set-up, and the opposite direction from our pee trees. It is not inordinately large or odd shaped by any stretch of the imagination. The reason for it being so poor may have had something to do with the amount of heavy rain received in that valley during our time there before it was cast.

Where exactly are you going to admit this evidence to, NW? You're speaking like a Magistrate or Judge in control of a courtroom proceeding??

"How long has Dean Harrison and AYR been fabricating evidence?"

Why don't you tell us what you really think??? If we wanted to fabricate physical evidence, do you think this is the best we could come up with??? A crappy undefined footprint which clearly looks like it could be made by any one of us? Your question is an insult to this board's hospitality. Mark my words, no member of our party should feel compelled to kneil to your scrutiny demands.

[Dion]

It's a very human-shaped footprint, Joe.

Thats because Yowies have a very human looking print, unless you were to find a three toed print of course, then it would be different, but I'm sure you would have a skeptical answer for any findings there too

Would you and Dean care to send in pics of your feet to compare?

I will ask AYR straight out: Did anyone plant the footprint to be "found"? Was the print that was cast formed by any AYR team members? If not then send in the foot pics, please.

Ed are you serious? You can’t be suggesting that someone deliberately went and made the print to fabricate a story and that by people posting pics of their feet is somehow going to reveal that the feet match the suspected plaster cast. Joe beat me to the Cinderella story comment, your evidence gathering is preposterous.

You say you’re a Field researcher but come across more like a trolling skeptic with ideas and hypothesise to events you clearly have no idea on. Your intent clearly indicates that you have more of a bone to pick with AYR than to really have anything decent to say.

You say you want the truth, but can’t handle it when it’s given to you.