The Yowie

Unread post by **Darren** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 8:53 am

Giday Mike ! You've made a lot of very good points , and if I was more knowledgeable in this field , I'd try to put up a better arguement for the F/B theroy , but it's early days for me at the moment ! So in saying that , I'm not going to get into a debate in which I have little knowledge and very little experience ! I can only say , from what I've seen , heard , read , and researched so far , is that they are F/B in my personal opinion !

Wed Jan 19, 2005 9:18 am

Fluffy was kind enough to lend me a book called "Psychic sasquatch" by Jack Laperitis. I received it yesterday and haven't been able to put it down. It's a great read and I recommend it to everyone.

Considering I don't normally read much due to a short concentration span, this book is great.

I found myself sitting there shaking my head in amazement for over four hours as I read about instances that were not just similar to what have occurred on our expeditions, but EXACTLY what we've witnessed. Word for word. This is uncanny.

The book thus far has covered so many instances that has left me scratching my head, and the circumstances match perfectly. Its an eye opener.....

No matter which way you swing on the F&B issue, if your serious about research, it's worth reading points from the other side of the fence .

DMH

Unread post by **dawn** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:04 am

Hi Dean, glad your enjoying the book, I found it fascinating also. I think I mentioned in the earlier post that I wasn't too sure about all of his theories, but as I havn't yet had the dubious pleasure of running into a yowie personally, I'm prepared to be 'open' to the opinions of anyone who has. LOL! Chris thought he was the only one who calls me "Fluffy"

Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:06 pm

Sorry Chris but it's definitely Fluffy from now on......

I'll have to get myself a copy, as there are a lot of parts that I want to use a Hightlighter on that are of importance.

A lot of what I'm reading so far are characteristics that I have written about before which intrigues me. I'm not taking anything as Gospel, but it's a great read and has shed some light on a few little nagging questions.

DMH

Unread post by **dawn** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:25 pm

The whole encounter with the lady with the cat in the cage was fascinating to me. They are obviously as interested in us as we are with them. What you need to do is sit in the middle of the most active area we know and do something really different.LOL! What about flying a kite? That might get their interest!

Unread post by **Darren** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 3:41 pm

I wouldn't mind having a gander at that book , where did you find it Dawn ? I doubt my local would have it , so any ideas as to where I'd get a copy would be useful !

Unread post by **Dion** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 4:03 pm

[quote="bowhunter] even if something is flesh and blood it still sends out a vibe.I think the scared feeling some people get is because of the unknown danger associated with yowie's, that is we dont know enough about them and of course human nature is to fear what we dont understand.[/quote]

Precisely Bowhunter

Flesh and blood it is, and a consciousness it has. A consciousness that is yet to be fully understood and acknowledged by some.

Wed Jan 19, 2005 4:21 pm

Just wiping the coffee stains from your book Fluff... don't mind the Chardonnay rings on the cover - it was a late night.

Here's yet another interesting quote in the book that we've previously spoken about here:

"Bla bla bla....................... they heard the banging of sticks on a hollow tree. Then loud thumping noises at a distance, as if something with huge feet was carelessly stomping the ground as it ran. The banging on trees seemed to be coming from different directions, evidently by two separate individuals. The noise was heard repetitively, which greatly perplexed them.

Interestingly, the Great Lakes Indians speak of 'the breaking of sticks' when referring to Sasquatch territorial behaviour. The Indians say that when your hear the pounding of sticks against hollow trees, it is a signal the creatures give to let intruders know that they are entering Sasquatch territory.

The Indians also say that when they find tops of saplings broken and twisted off when entering a region, this is a sign that marks Sasquatch feeding grounds. They never entered that territory and consider it very dangerous...................."

Darren - you can pick up a copy at Amazon.com

DMH

Unread post by **Alex** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:02 pm

The yowie is most certainly "flesh & blood". But also, contains an element of the paranormal as well..

Was watching some show the other night about the Tsunami that hit thailand, and some guy said that all the animals hauled ass out of there before the wave hit.

Now, if they (animals) can detect things, why can't they send out an aura?

People have reported feeling the yowie before seeing it, it doesn't seem so ridiculous. But, I guess, we won't really know until someone captures one/finds a body.

Personally, i'm waiting for that day.
(doesn't mean I don't believe, but hey, i'd be cool to see one up close, right?)

Unread post by **Ruby Lang** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:39 pm

Hmmmm,

Sorry folks, no compelling F&B arguments so far.

As for auras, I suppose anything is possible but that particular theory doesn't really ring true either when you stack it up against the pile of cases/reports with otherworldy elements.

You're much more likely to 'get a vibe' off of something paranormal than you are something F&B. There are many animals that can be within very close proximity to humans and we never know/sense them unless we unwittingly stumble into/onto them and flush them from their hidey holes in the bush.

While, on many occasions, people have reported strong, overwhelming sensations that do not correspond with any physical 3D flesh and blood creature. The oft-mentioned 'nameless dread' comes to mind...

Your average manbeast/bush ape/yowie/bigfoot/yeti seems to have more in common with the mythology of faerieland than the zoology of primates!

Dean's hit upon a valid stream of reading for those willing to explore beyond the realm of the physical.

I think we may all have to agree it is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma! (Apologies to the late Winston Churchill)

Ruby

Unread post by **Alex** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:21 pm

Just looking around on the web.. found something interesting.

If you're good with your hominid folklore, you've probably heard of Ape Canyon. In 1924, 5 miners were part of a night long siege. Their assailents being 6 angry bigfeet.

I'll throw in some quotes, just to make you familiar with the story.

This was the start of the famous attack, of which so much has been written in Washington and Oregon papers through out the years. Most accounts tell of giant boulders being hurled against the cabin, and say some even fell through the roof, but this was not quite the case. There were very few large rocks around in that area. It is true that many smaller ones were hurled at the cabin, but they did not break through the roof, but hit with a bang, and rolled off. Some did fall through the chimney of the fireplace. Some accounts state I was hit in the head by a rock and knocked unconscious. This is not true.

The attack continued the remainder of the night, with only short intervals between. A most profound and frightening experience occurred when one of the creatures, being close to the cabin, reached an arm through the chinking space and seized one of our axes by the handle (a much written about incident and a true one). Before the thing could pull the axe out, I swiftly turned the head of the axe upright, so that it caught on the logs; and at the same time Hank shot, barely missing my hand.

The creature let go, and I pulled the handle back in, and put the axe in a safe place.

Scary stuff, huh? Anyway, onto the important part.

There are a couple experiences which show some light or evidence on the psychic nature of Abominable Snowmen: the same thudding, hallow thumping noise we heard at night preceding the attack, we also had heard in broad daylight, although not nearly so loud. One of our party was a little irritated with me. On our excursions, he usually led the way and I followed a little behind the others. We kept hearing that sound, and occasionally he turned around and would say, "What's that!" After six or eight times of him doing this, and after a few general discussions about the noise, he quickly turned around one more time and eyed me, and said, "By golly boys, it's not Fred making that noise after all." But he decided to give it a double check. He made an excuse and wandered away from camp. When he came back, he said, "Now I'm certain it's none of us. I walked for half an hour and everywhere I went, I heard it. Sounds like there's a hollow drum in the earth somewhere and something is hitting it."

- Hrm. Sound familiar? Yes. I've read reports of sounds Yowies make, like the most awesome sub-woofer on earth going insane.

Another very striking experience which shows that they cannot be natural beings with natural bodies: It was before we made our cabin, and we were staying in a tent then. The tent was below a little cone shaped mountain called Pumy Butte. A little creek flowed nearby, and there was a moist-sand bar about an acre in area. We would go there and wash our cooking utensils and bring our drinking water back. Early one morning Hank came back to the tent. He was rather excited. He led us to the moist-sand bar, and took us almost to the center. There in the center of the sand bar were two huge tracks about four inches deep. There was not another track on that sand bar!

There we were standing in the middle of the sand bar, and not one of us could conceive any earthly thing taking steps 160 feet long. "No human being could have made these tracks," Hank said, "and there's only one way they could be made, something dropped from the sky and went back up."

They have to be.. something, right? Flesh & Blood or spiritual manifestation.. whatever the hell it is, it can get angry. Ask any SAS soldier.

Unread post by **dawn** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 8:22 am

Hi Darren, Amazon.com has a mind boggling amount of books on bigfoot, the problem is which ones to buy!

Unread post by **Darren** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:06 am

Thanks Dawn/Dean , for the link ! Any other recomended reading while we're on the subject ?

Thu Jan 20, 2005 8:29 pm

Get the book Daz.

DMH

Unread post by **Jo Blose** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:54 pm

Regarding your post, Dean, about the sasquatch whacking sticks against trees to ward of intruders to their territory - just thought I'd mention, if it hasn't been mentioned already, here in Australia, our Aboriginal peoples sometimes refer to the creature as Burrum Stickler (he who strikes sticks). Same phenomenon folks.

Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:42 am

I've had quite a bit of experience with the tree tapping. One instance that immediately comes to mind was a time during an expedition where I was sitting on a dirt track looking towards a thick one forest which started as a hill to my left, and decended into a long gully.

Something had been going on in there that captured my interest, which was the reason I had stopped. Sure enough, from my left at the top of the hill, a large creature came running down through the bush. I couldn't see the creature properly, just the bushes being driven a part and the large steps as it raced along.

It was certainly large enough tp doze any foliage in it's path.

It stopped at a tree in front of me. Whack, whack, whack...... 3 huge hits on the side of the tree.

To my left on another hill there was a response. Whack, Whack..... Then the creature continued it's journey......

Obviously some form of communication, because we're heard it many times just like this while being in the area. The BF hunters and Indians also talk a lot about it.

DMH

Unread post by **dawn** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:24 am

What books are you looking for Darren? Just on Bigfoot, or on paranormal in general? Loren Colemans books are interesting, Janet and Colin Bord, John Napier? I think the name is writes books that are definately F&B and from a scientific slant. I'm trying to remember as I lent a lot of my BF books to someone a few years ago, and they and my books disappeared. Ivan T Sanderson is really good, did a really good story on the "MInnesotta Iceman", now thats fascinating on its own. Sanderson also writes on how he tracked what he believed to be a giant penguin, for miles on a desserted beach.He has a stack of degrees to back him up. Jemmy Randle writes on a wide range of paranormal subjects, her 'mind monsters' was very good. A lot of BF reports will pop up in books which are mainly UFO related, when the author wants to make that connection. What I do these days is check out Amazon, and take a punt. My only problem is I can only get one or two at a time or hubby goes balistic! LOL! Don't forget Keels books, there always worth reading, no matter the topic, as well as Collin Wilsons. Good luck!

Unread post by **Darren** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:52 am

Yes Dawn, I've read a few books by some of those authors ! I'm after any documented info on everything and anything unexplanable !

Unread post by **mikem-usa** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:47 am

Tough to get around the physical laws governing our universe, I think everything is explainable.......except the platypus, I'm at a loss to explain that goofy animal.

Fri Jan 21, 2005 10:13 am

When they first discovered the Platypus in the late 1700's, it was sent back to Merry ol' England for an autopsy so they could formally named it and define the species. The Biologists who first looked at it claimed it had to be a hoax and the bill was somehow grafted on. True story. Quite venomous during mating season which most people don't know.

DMH

Unread post by **Alex** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 10:46 am

Darren, try out http://www.lorencoleman.com/

Lots of good books there

Unread post by **Dion** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 1:43 pm

Well here are the thoughts on all the posts so far, I think there are no doubts were talking about a flesh and blood and paranormal creature.

No arguments there! Well maybe some, but the majority believe that there both!

By going off the posts we have ourselves a flesh and blood/paranormal creature that can appear and disappear at will, it has a 'knowingness' and a 'presence' to it, whichcan effect it's surroundings.

I would like to make a point as to why I think they are not just paranormal and are indeed flesh and blood in nature.

Take for example an average human spirit, with no physical body, purely spirit, it has the abilitiy to go wherever it wants to, it can fly through walls with no ill effect, it can move through any physical form without thinking it was going to hurt itself.
Why? because it has no physical form, (I am talking about a spirit that has come down to the physical).

Now let's take some of the experiences of the Yowie moving through the bush. If the Yowie was purely spirt would it not also be able to move through obstacles such as tree's and shrub's without coming to any harm and just glide through them, yes!

Why then does it move through the bush at incredible speed snapping trees in its path in the sight of a human? Why, because it has an element of physicality.

It takes an awful amount of mental energy to be able to conjure up and maintain purely physical happenings if it were just paranormal.

These are just my views; I belive that we do have a creature that maybe able to slip in and out of a different dimension or become invisible but it is not purely spirit or paranormal, there is an element of physiaclity

Cheers

Unread post by **Ruby Lang** » Sat Jan 22, 2005 12:42 pm

Why then does it move through the bush at incredible speed snapping trees in its path in the sight of a human? Why, because it has an element of physicality.

Forgive my ignorance, but has anyone really SEEN a yowie snapping trees?

I know many claim to have heard such noises and seen snapped trees that they attribute to yowie activity, but I don't recall any eyewitness accounts of hairy men observed snapping them.

Ruby

Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:21 pm

Hi Mike
A dog has upto 6 toes.
People also r known to have a range of toes .
Marilyn Munroe?6 toes.
I now a little boy also with 3 toes on one foot and 2 on the other .
So why do people think thier is something suss on yowie footprints.
As far as I am concerned its just plan ignorance.
If animals we now off have this sort of foot make up then what about the undiscovered.
Previously in the high ninties man dicovered 2 new species of dolphin,
So in my mind if a fisherman was to come ashore and report this fish he would be laught at until someone finally caught it and it was accepted into our community.

Just like the Big Fella 3,4 or 5 toes To me it is irrelivent as thier is other species out thier that do have a range of foot patterns.
Flesh and Blood is what i do believe One could also say Paranormal flesh and blood creature as Para normal does just mean,Beyond the scope of normal scientific investigation or explanation Which the yowie does fall under.
Cheers

Unread post by **Dion** » Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:32 pm

Ruby Lang wrote:
Forgive my ignorance, but has anyone really SEEN a yowie snapping trees?

I know many claim to have heard such noises and seen snapped trees that they attribute to yowie activity, but I don't recall any eyewitness accounts of hairy men observed snapping them.

Ruby

Hey Ruby

I am just posing some theories of story's in relation to this creature moving through the bush. I have read a few sightings, story's that state they saw the animal run at high speed off into the bush, moving and breaking anything in its path while also hearing this happening.
Now if this animal were purely paranormal would not this creature just disregard all phsyical objects in the process?

I am only posing questions to a creature we know very little about! I mean, what is normal behavior for these guys, do we really know? because something is beyond our comprehension or understanding we label it paranormal! Everthing is normal; it's our inability to understand the normal that we label it paranormal. Life is a wonderous journey to grow and evolve the human conciousness and there are many new things yet to be discovered, the behaviour of the Yowie being one of them.

I think its great we can discuss our thoughts and feelings of this creature openly. I really enjoyed your post on the telepathic ability of these creatures from the blue mountains, it was a great read, Thanks.

For me Ruby, I dont think I can come to a conclusion that they are purely paranormal at this stage, Just my opinion, I could be wrong though.

Unread post by **Darren** » Sat Jan 22, 2005 3:52 pm

Good post Chewy !
Jeannie & Nig , good to see you back again with a very good point about the range of footprints a single spieces can leave ! I have read and watched a doco' about a race/tribe , of humans with 3 toes.If I remember correctly , they may have been an African tribe .

Sat Jan 22, 2005 6:20 pm

Hi Nigel

>Hi Mike
>A dog has upto 6 toes.

Which breeds have 6 toes.
My shepherd has 4 toes and a dew claw.

>People also r known to have a range of toes .
>Marilyn Munroe?6 toes.
>I now a little boy also with 3 toes on one foot and 2 on the other .

good points.
So basically you are saying its the feet of deformed yowies.??
Because the above examples are of regressive, genetic defects.
My point was that I do not know of any other species on earth that has such a great disparity in feet within
species,<without a deformity argument been brought into it>.
Or are you saying the variation could be within the yowies/bigfoot etc as a natural occurence,ie,<not a deformity>
and this doesnt happen to any other animal on earth.?
Which could lead you to possibly argue that there are undiscovered animals out there that might have the
same variations naturally in feet...which would be trying to explain/rationalise one unusual quality, of an undiscovered animal,
by using the example of a another undiscovered animal...!

>So why do people think thier is something suss on yowie footprints.

At the time I wasnt considering either...
1/ genetic deformity to be a valid argument
2/ yowies/sasquatch being the only species on earth with such major differences in foot morphology.
Now if its just naturally occuring then that leads us into another interesting area.
We have two continents separated by thousands of miles, with creatures that look similar that exhibit the same odd
variation.
Convergent evolution.?

>As far as I am concerned its just plan ignorance.

thanks, see 1+2 above.

>If animals we now off have this sort of foot make up then what about the undiscovered.
>Previously in the high ninties man dicovered 2 new species of dolphin,

and did they have any major differences between well known dolphins.

>Just like the Big Fella 3,4 or 5 toes To me it is irrelivent as thier is other species out thier that
> do have a range of foot patterns.

Due to deformity I gather.
If not,please tell me what species you are talking about.

>Flesh and Blood is what i do believe One could also say Paranormal flesh and blood

Sure.Paranormal all the time/flesh and blood some of the time.

Mikem>Tough to get around the physical laws governing our universe, I think everything is explainable...

Interesting philosophical ideal there Mikem, wish it was possible.I think you meant to say " I think everything
may be explainable" because obviously looking at cosmology/anthropology/physics etc there are untold problems in all
fields that are not explainable.

MikeW

Unread post by **Ruby Lang** » Sat Jan 22, 2005 6:28 pm

Hi Chewy,

I must say I am enjoying this thread - who knew there were so many readers/researchers out there who were willing to entertain the thought that this thing, whatever it is, could have supernatural qualities/origins.

My point about the tree breaking (and I don't think anyone HAS seen one snapping trees in two) is that we tend to attribute a lot of things to yowies - things we don't know to be the case at all, we're just guessing.

As for your comments re:

I have read a few sightings, story's that state they saw the animal run at high speed off into the bush, moving and breaking anything in its path while also hearing this happening.
Now if this animal were purely paranormal would not this creature just disregard all phsyical objects in the process?

Who says something paranormal (literal: beyond normal) has to be purely spirit-based/insubstantial?

Cheers,

Ruby

Unread post by **Ruby Lang** » Sat Jan 22, 2005 6:48 pm

Hi Darren,

a very good point about the range of footprints a single spieces can leave

But can they? When you actually examine some of those large three-toed yowie footprints they look nothing like some of the others that retain more human-like qualities in the toes.

From a science perspecive I don't think it would be possible to have such a large variation.

Ruby

The variation in Yowie footprint examples, for interest's sake (note: I couldn't find one of the three toers):

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~mhallett/FOOTPRINTS.htm

http://www.internetezy.com.au/~mj129/yowiesmain.html

http://www.yowiehunters.com/reports/nt/acaciahills1.php

http://www.rfthomas.clara.net/papers/anatomy.html

http://www.rfthomas.clara.net/papers/dermal.html

Unread post by **Dion** » Sat Jan 22, 2005 7:37 pm

Ruby Lang wrote:
Who says something paranormal (literal: beyond normal) has to be purely spirit-based/insubstantial?

Hey Ruby

I used that term 'paranormal' loosely and was not suggesting that 'paranormal things are purely spirit-based'. It's always a tough topic to talk about the unexplained happenings of things.

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Hrm.

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