Do you think yowies are flesh and blood or something else???

[ryno]

I have always believed that yowies exist In our world as a thing of real flesh and blood. Had an interesting chat today with an indigenous lady from my work who told my she was going away on holidays to search for a "dooligahl".
When I said "do you mean a yowie?" she replied " yes that's what white fellas call them!".
She then told me that they are creatures from another realm and move into our world through portals.
Has anyone else heard of this type of thing ?

[Dion]

Hey Ryno

Yep heard it before, and I also have a belief that they are something more than just Flesh and Blood.

Doing a search on the Forum for words such as "Flesh and Blood" or "Paranormal" will yield some good results also.

I believe Sue O’Conner who used to live in the Blue Mountains did a type of meditation in her backyard once to try and attract the nature spirits, having said that it was probably more of a ceremonial act or ritual as I believe she was a wiccan. She got more than what he bargained for as a Yowie ended up turning up on a regular basis in her backyard.

Quotes from an old Ruby Lang post.

Out of the Blue Labyrinth Jerry and Sue O’Connor, the principal witnesses in this case, are happy to have their names used, but asked me not to reveal the exact location of their property. Suffice to say they live in the Blue Mountains to the south of the Great Western Highway, where the land immediately behind their house falls away into a vast maze of twisting, scrub-covered ravines known as the Blue Labyrinth. Since moving into the area in September 1997 the O’Connor’s have been regularly visited by yowies, have seen them on numerous occasions, have fed them and have communicated with them, both telepathically and by more conventional means. Many people will find the O’Connor’s' story difficult to accept, so I would like to emphasis here that everything they have reported - even the apparent telepathic communication - has-been reported elsewhere in Australia or overseas. I find their testimony convincing not only because it has been, in effect, corroborated by similar testimony, but because I know Sue and Jerry and I trust them. For some time after the yowie activity began, Jerry, a down to earth ex-serviceman, could hardly believe it himself. "My whole life was spun on its axis", he says. "It changed my whole belief system.” Sue, however, has always been interested in spiritual matters and it is just possible her open spirituality actually triggered the yowie visitations. Shortly after they moved into their house she conducted a quiet ceremony to invite the local nature spirits into their garden. Soon she and Jerry experienced strong feelings of dread and of being watched. Their screen door rattled, the power box slammed, they heard crashing sounds in the scrub and, in November 1999, heard at seemingly point-blank range, a tremendous, terrifying roar as loud as that of a lion, yet indefinably alien - "other worldly”. They then found about 30 huge bite marks up to 7 feet above the ground on young bloodwood trees,

Deep grooves left by upper canines which were consistently 80 mm apart and by lower canines which were always 55 mm apart seemed to prove the bites were all made by the same individual. It was clearly hunting for grubs. At about 2 o'clock one morning in August 2000 Sue woke from a disturbing dream which was accompanied by a weird "electric" feeling, looked up at the window behind their bed and saw a huge animal staring back at her. The creature had a human-sized head which looked disproportionately small as it was set low into a pair of absolutely huge shoulders. As it was illuminated by a streetlight and a full moon, Sue could see the animal had a slim nose, a very wide mouth and a rounded clump of tan-colored hair on top of its head.
Sue and Jerry have now experienced six similar sightings, always preceded by the strange “electric" dreams, cold chills and fear. To look through the bedroom window the creature must be over eight feet tall. It seems highly significant that the visits always occur just before or during Sue's monthly periods.

Psychic Communication. Not surprisingly, the O’Connor’s eventually decided the hairy giants had more in common with spirits than they did with normal animals, so Sue tried contacting the creatures mentally. Eventually, on 31 October 2000, she established a telepathic link with what purported to be their regular visitor - a female yowie. The creature conveyed that it resided in the "Black Dimension" but was a benign "being of light" which was drawn to her and her garden. It conveyed its disapproval of the word? yowie? And seemed to say it was? Of the bunyip race? Among other things it informed Sue it was immensely old -essentially immortal.

Recently Jerry, whose family nick-name is "Jock", left food outside the bedroom window for the yowie. Shortly thereafter he felt the "electro" sensation followed by a voice in his head which said quite clearly, "thanks, Jock!” By any standards the O’Connor’s' story is petty weird, so it is worth repeating that every strange detail Sue and Jerry mentioned has been reported elsewhere - right up to and including the telepathic communication - which has been mentioned frequently in America and once, memorably, by a Russian cryptozoologist.

Some of the above plus more below.

Hi Guys,

Well, I have believed for some time that there is a paranormal aspect to the yowie mystery.

The native custodians of this land, the Aborigines, have referred to them as spirit beings as well as flesh and blood...and then there are those 'backward pointing feet'. Hardly the physical attribute of a flesh and blood creature - and a characteristic of faerie creatures in mythology worldwide.

Let me direct some of the more well-read members of the forum to the Myths and Monsters 2001 talk given by researcher Tony Healy (co-author of Out of the Shadows and the soon-to-be-released The Yowie File), who has also explored the paranormal dimension to the yowie in his talk "High Strangeness in Yowie Reports": Are the hairy giants flesh and blood - or are they psychic phenomena? Yowies appear to be part of a world-wide phenomenon of strikingly similar traditions of uncatchable ape-men occur in many other parts of the world.

I reproduce it here in full because I know 99.9% of people won't bother to look it up or consider any of the arguments

Ruby

"The vast majority of people who report yowie sightings sincerely believe they haveencountered living, breathing animals - some kind of extremely elusive ape or giant,primitive hominid. Their eyewitness testimony is supported by footprints, tree bites and otherphysical evidence which proves the creatures are much more than mere hallucinations. Thereare, however, many other elements of the mystery which suggest it may not be ananthropological or zoological problem at all - but perhaps something a great deal weirder:some kind of psychic phenomenon.

Many yowie researchers dislike any mention of the supernatural and feel that proponents ofthe paranormal are attempting to solve one problem by creating another. They are concernedthat people who raise the spectre - so to speak - of the paranormal will strengthen the hand ofthe sceptics, confuse the media and scare off those few scientists who have been courageousenough to express an interest in cryptozoology.I can understand their reactions - I had the same attitude myself for several years.

But if wereject everything about the yowie which smacks of the paranormal we will have to sweep approximately 20% of the accumulated data under the carpet. To do that would be not onlyunscientific - but also plain dishonest. Nothing would thrill me more than for someone to prove conclusively that yowies arephysically real - but I now suspect that will never happen. After 25 years on their trail I am strongly inclined to believe the creatures are shape-shifting phantoms which may alwaysremain beyond human comprehension.I may be wrong ( and in fact I hope I am ) but as Fred Beck, one of the miners who wasinvolved in the famous 1924 bigfoot encounter, known as the Ape Canyon Incident, oncesaid, ?It is no sin to be wrong, just as it does not make a person a saint to be right.?

(1)There are many reasons why I suspect there is something quite uncanny about the yowie. Idon't have space here to discuss them all, so I will focus instead on just three majorconsiderations:1. Elusive hairy giants are a world-wide phenomenon.Uncatchable hairy ape-men have been reported in every state and territory of Australia, invirtually every state and province of the USA and Canada, in Guatemala, Panama, Colombia,Brazil, Argentina, Russia, Nepal, China, Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, NewGuinea, New Zealand, Kenya, India and even Japan.For centuries tens of thousands of armed men - aboriginies, explorers, trappers, hunters,prospectors, soldiers - have roamed most of the areas concerned, wiping out whole species oflarge animals - and races of people - yet no museum has so much as a finger bone of a yeti toexamine.

I just cannot see how giant apes could have avoided being captured, killed or clearlyphotographed in one or other of those areas - unless they have an avoidance technique whichis way beyond our ken.Yowie and bigfoot - the terrible twinsI now believe that the elusive ape-men of Australia and North America are not just verysimilar but are, in fact, exactly the same creature. There is not space here to list all thesupporting evidence but it boils down, essentially, to this:In virtually all aspects of their appearance, their behaviour and the reactions they engender inother animals, in tribal people, modern witnesses, believers and sceptics, the animals areidentical. (2)There is reason to suspect the Himalayan yeti and several other types of elusive ape-men arealso part of the same phenomenon.

2. Hot Spots: The yowie/black panther/lake monster/UFO connectionThe second major consideration is this: localities which produce hairy man reports alsofrequently produce reports of other strange phenomena.In the year I spent on the trail of the sasquatch I concentrated, naturally, on areas whereNative Americans had always believed in the hairy giants and where white people hadreported sightings since the frontier days. To my surprise I found that in virtually all of thoselocations people had also reported a variety of other strange, uncatchable animals. The mostcommon of these were ?black panthers? and Loch Ness style lake and river monsters. Severalof these "hot spots" also produced a large number of UFO reports.To give just one example:?O Canada - you're so weird?Many sasquatch sightings have occurred near the village of Easterville, Manitoba, which issituated on a thin isthmus surrounded by Lake Winnipeg, Lake Winnipegosis and Cedar Lake,all of which have produced many lake monster reports.The lake monsters have been seen out of the water, on beaches or in swamps, on at least threeoccasions. On one occasion a sasquatch was seen wading out of Lake Winnipeg. Although mountain lions are believed not to exist at all in Manitoba, four ?black panther?sightings also occurred in the immediate area. The three different types of mystery animalswere all reported within a radius of 10 miles. In North Carolina and Florida I interviewed people whose properties had been visited by boththe bigfoot and black panthers. One witness had been fortunate enough to sight both types ofanimal. Here in Australia the same pattern has emerged: many yowie ?hot spots? such as the BlueMountains and the Batemans Bay to Bega area also produce reports of several other types ofstrange, elusive animals. As in America the most common of these is the ?black panther?,and, as in America, some lucky individuals have actually seen both types of creatures.

Yowies and bunyips
The unlikely link between giant ape-men and lake and river monsters is less evident inAustralia than in America, but I believe it does exist.One area which has produced a plethora of yowie, black panther and bunyip reports since the1820s is the ACT and immediate environs.

(3)The UFO/Yowie LinkIn North America an apparent link between bigfoot and UFOs has been noted on manyoccasions. Between June 1973 and February 1974 in western Pennsylvania there was aphenomenal outbreak of weirdness which yielded 118 bigfoot and not less than 600 UFOreports. On a dozen occasions low flying UFOs were reported immediately before or after abigfoot sighting.

(4)Definite yowie/UFO connections are much rarer but they have been reported.In January 1975 people near Goolma NSW observed a UFO descend and possibly land. Overthe following two weeks there was an intense wave of yowie reports - which suddenly ceasedafter a second UFO was seen.

(5)Some yowie and bigfoot enthusiasts simply ignore the apparent UFO connection and others,like the irascible Rene Dahinden, love to ridicule the idea. Sometimes, however, the link is soobvious it simply can't be swept aside.Consider these two cases:(a) On 27 September 1973 two witnesses in Beaver County, Pennsylvania, told of seeing awhite, hair-covered creature with red eyes ?carrying a luminescent sphere in its hand?. Otherpeople saw a strange craft hovering over the woods into which the creature disappeared.

(6)(b) In June 1975 at Tailem Bend, SA, two groups of people saw a giant hairy ape-man withwhat looked like a lantern in his hand. A third group saw a huge illuminated dome-shape inthe same field.

(7)Significantly, local Aborigines say the Murray River at Tailem Bend is inhabited by a bunyipknown as the Moolgewanke which resembles an ape-like man ?more than ten feet tall ... longblack hair, dark red eyes, large teeth and webbed hands and feet.?

(8)So at Tailem bend we have a yowie/bunyip / UFO link. 3. High Strangeness in Yowie reportsThe third major consideration is simply the sheer, out- and- out weirdness of some details insome reports. Some of the weirdest details have cropped up time and again, in both Australiaand overseas.

?Nameless dread?
No doubt an unexpected encounter with an 8 foot tall ape would give anyone a bit of a jolt,but some yowie witnesses - and their horses and dogs as well - become much more frightenedthan you would reasonably expect.In 1912 a surveyor, Charles Harper, said that when he and two assistants were approached by"a huge man-like animal" in the Currickbilly Range of south-east NSW his fierce huntingdogs retreated whining and one of his assistants fainted and ?remained unconscious forseveral hours.?

(9)Exactly the same thing happened near Easterville, Manitoba, in the early 1970s: a witnessfainted dead away, later suffered recurring nightmares and could not sleep without a loadedgun beside his bed.

(10)In 1998, at a village on the NSW south coast, a friend of mine noticed a huge hairy hominidobserving her from the treeline and immediately experienced almost unbearable fearcombined with the feeling that her spine was literally in the icy grip of something quitesinister.Later, on a nearby fire trail the horse she was riding stopped dead, trembled, almost crouched,and stared fixedly into the bush. Seconds later, as the woman again felt the icy fear, the horseturned and, unprompted, galloped three miles home.That story illustrates one of the strangest things about the ?nameless dread?: you don?t have toactually see, hear, or smell the hairy giants to be poleaxed by overwhelming fear.Many such reports have been noticed by North American researchers. As early as 1970 LeeTrippett of Oregon stated ?He [the bigfoot] can terrorise you from the far side of a mountain.?Feeling Abominable It seems the elusive hairy giants of the Himalayas also possess the handy ability to zap othercreatures telepathically.In 1983 a Scottish scientist, Bill Grant, was approaching a tiny lake on the Nepal/Tibet borderwhen he was suddenly immobilised by overwhelming fear and a voice- that-was -not-a -voicecommanding him to go no further. Much as he struggled to do so the veteran expeditionerfound that he simply could not take another step forward. He retreated and hours laterreturned to find the psychic barrier had lifted. Cautiously proceeding, he discovered a line ofhuge five toed tracks along the muddy shore.

(11)There is no space to go into it here, but a number of lake monster and alien big cat witnesseshave also experienced the dreaded "nameless dread."

The scent of a yowieIn about 10% of yowie cases the creatures have exuded a mind-bogglingly foul stench. It canbe bad enough to make a person vomit and the pongy pongids seem to be able to release thechoking miasma at will. Usually the smell is compared to that of rotting meat, bat droppings or a ?badly kept countrydunny? but occasionally witnesses say the creatures left a distinct electrical smell ?like burntelectrical wiring?, ?burnt bakelite?, ?a sulphury stink?.
(12)Interestingly, in a very dramatic bigfoot/UFO case in Pennsylvania in 1973, witnessesdescribed a strong smell of sulphur and burning rubber.

(13)Jeepers creepersA weird detail which has cropped up repeatedly in America but also here is that the hairygiants' eyes are said not only to just reflect light but to glow in the dark as if lit from within.

(14)Knock knock, who's there? The polt connection As if the yowie/black panther/bunyip/UFO connection was not weird enough, three cases inour files suggest our Furry Friends might also have something in common with poltergeists.For example, in 1946, when George Nott and his family moved into a long-abandonedproperty near Wilcannia, they heard thumping sounds in the ceiling. Doors swung open,objects flew, and so many pebbles fell on the roof that they ?sounded like a heavy shower ofrain.? At the same time as this classic poltergeist phenomena , huge human-like tracksappeared in the yard and a large, very irate hairy ape-man began to invade the house, oncetrying to drag Mrs Nott outside.Not surprisingly, the family soon moved to an out-station.

(15)What's afoot? Thanks to the work of many investigators and eye-witnesses we now have a pretty goodcomposite description of the average yowie, from the top of his head down to ankle level.After that, however, things become a lot more confusing.Over the past 150 years or so people who have observed the yowies' feet or examined trackshave often disagreed not only on the general shape of the foot but even on the number of toes.Five-toed tracks may be the most common, but three, four and even six-toed tracks have beenreported by apparently reputable people, sometimes immediately after yowie sightings.

(16)The same problem arises in North America - and probably the Himalayas as well.Obviously, something is seriously amiss. Either an army of extremely ham-fisted hoaxers hasbeen at work on two continents for 150 years or the yowie, the sasquatch and company are, asI suspect, shape - shifters.

There is a great deal more extreme weirdness in our files but we do not have space to discussit all here. Instead I will conclude with one particular "high strangeness" case which is takingplace right now.Out of the Blue LabyrinthJerry and Sue O?Connor, the principal witnesses in this case, are happy to have their namesused, but asked me not to reveal the exact location of their property. Suffice to say they live inthe Blue Mountains to the south of the Great Western Highway, where the land immediatlybehind their house falls away into a vast maze of twisting, scrub-covered ravines known asthe Blue Labyrinth.Since moving into the area in September 1997 the O'Connors have been regularly visited byyowies, have seen them on numerous occasions, have fed them and have communicated withthem, both telepathically and by more conventional means.Many people will find the O'Connors' story difficult to accept, so I would like to emphasisehere that everything they have reported - even the apparent telepathic communication - hasbeen reported elsewhere in Australia or overseas.I find their testimony convincing not only because it has been, in effect, corroborated bysimilar testimony, but because I know Sue and Jerry and I trust them.For some time after the yowie activity began, Jerry, a down to earth ex-serviceman, couldhardly believe it himself. "My whole life was spun on its axis", he says. "It changed my wholebelief system."Sue, however, has always been interested in spiritual matters and it is just possible her openspirituality actually triggered the yowie visitations.Shortly after they moved into their house she conducted a quiet ceremony to invite the localnature spirits into their garden. Soon she and Jerry experienced strong feelings of dread and ofbeing watched. Their screen door rattled, the power box slammed, they heard crashing soundsin the scrub and, in November 1999, heard at seemingly point-blank range, a tremendous,terrifying roar as loud as that of a lion, yet indefinably alien - "other worldly".They then found about 30 huge bite marks up to 7 feet above the ground on young bloodwoodtrees, identical to those found by Neil Frost whose house, only a couple of kilometres away, isalso the focus of yowie activity.Deep grooves left by upper canines which were consistently 80 mm apart and by lowercanines which were always 55 mm apart seemed to prove the bites were all made by the sameindividual. It was clearly hunting for grubs. At about 2 o'clock one morning in August 2000 Sue woke from a disturbing dream which wasaccompanied by a weird "electric" feeling, looked up at the window behind their bed and sawa huge animal staring back at her. The creature had a human-sized head which lookeddisproportionatly small as it was set low into a pair of absolutely huge shoulders.As it was illuminated by a streetlight and a full moon, Sue could see the animal had a slimnose, a very wide mouth and a rounded clump of tan-coloured hair on top of its head.

Sue and Jerry have now experienced six similar sightings, always preceded by the strange"electric" dreams, cold chills and fear. To look through the bedroom window the creaturemust be over eight feet tall.It seems highly significant that the visits always occur just before or during Sue's monthlyperiods.For weeks they hid four infra red video surveillance cameras - loaned to them by yowiehunter Dean Harrison - at various key points around the yard. During those weeks the yowieapproached only once. Choosing the only night when a narrow quadrant was not covered bythe cameras, it reached the house and looked in as before.Like Neil Frost, Dean Harrison and others who have tried yowie hunting with infra redcameras, the O'Connors concluded the creatures can either detect IR light .... or read peoples'minds.On 25 October 2000 they hid a sound-activated tape recorder in a hollow stump next to a cliffover which they suspended a feed pot. They selected that particular spot because that sameafternoon, in the same area, Sue had seen a hunched, hairy, tan-coloured ape-like figurerunning through the undergrowth at phenomenal speed. A local man, Brad Croft, had alsorecently seen a huge yowie in the vicinity.In the morning they found the tape had registered heavy bipedal footsteps, the sound ofcamouflage being pulled away, and what sounded like dextrous fingers lifting the recorderand ripping its protective plastic. The final sound was a hollow thump to the feedpot, whichlay empty and shattered 35 feet away.Tracks found by the O'Connors reflect the confusing pattern elsewhere: some are three-toed,some five-toed.Communication {a} Thumping. Basic communication began one night when Jerry impulsively pounded onthe bedroom wall and yelled "how are ya goin' mate?" Two nights later a tattoo of knockscame by way of reply.{b} Crossed Sticks. More recently he has interacted with the creature{s} via patterns hemakes with sticks. He creates a pattern or structure and returns after a night or two to find thepattern has been thoughtfully rearranged. He feels the yowie{s} enjoy this game.{c} Psychic Communication. Not surprisingly, the O'Connors eventually decided the hairygiants had more in common with spirits than they did with normal animals, so Sue triedcontacting the creatures mentally.Eventually, on 31 October 2000, she established a telepathic link with what purported to betheir regular visitor - a female yowie.The creature conveyed that it resided in the "Black Dimension" but was a benign "being oflight" which was drawn to her and her garden.It conveyed its disapproval of the word ?yowie? and seemed to say it was ?of the bunyiprace?. Among other things it informed Sue it was immensely old -essentially immortal.

Recently Jerry, whose family nick-name is "Jock", left food outside the bedroomwindow for the yowie. Shortly thereafter he felt the "electro" sensation followed by a voice inhis head which said quite clearly, "thanks, Jock!"By any standards the O'Connors' story is petty weird, so it is worth repeating that everystrange detail Sue and Jerry mentioned has been reported elsewhere - right up to andincluding the telepathic communication - which has been mentioned frequently in Americaand once, memorably, by a Russian cryptozoologist. His close encounter with an almastigave rise to one of the weirdest headlines I've ever seen: " I HAD MY MIND READ BY THEABOMINABLE SNOW WOMAN OF THE PAMIRS" !----------------I think most open-minded readers will acknowledge that the "high strangeness" aspects of theyowie do suggest rather strongly that Australia's hairy giants are in some way paranormal.I cheerfully admit that, as Paul Cropper sometimes says, the paranormal "explanation" is not areal explanation at all. It is certainly not a complete explanation because it doesn't tell us whatthe yowies actually are. I believe, however, that by indicating what the yowies are not ( i.e.ordinary flesh and blood animals) and by identifying other phenomena to which they areapparently linked (UFOs, "black panthers", poltergeists) the "high strangeness" data may atleast bring us part of the way towards understanding the true nature of these bafflingcreatures.I'm far from the first yowie or bigfoot investigator to speculate about the paranormal. SeveralAmericans, notably John Keel and Jon Beckjord, have been writing about it for years. As farback as the 1930s a pioneer Australian cryptozoologist, RW McKay, noticed the apparentyowie-big cat connection and referred to them as "something supernatural". "Whatever theseanimals are ", he wrote, "they seem to have something protecting them ..." 18Fred Beck, last survivor of the 1924 Ape Canyon Incident, wrote in 1967 that "... wegenuinely fought (the sasquatches) and were quite fearful ... but I was always conscious thatwe were dealing with supernatural beings, and ... the other ( men) felt the same."Something else Fred Beck said is very interesting in light of what the yowie told SueO'Connor about the "Black Dimension": the sasquatches, he said, "... are from a lower plane.When the condition and vibration is at a certain frequency, they can easily, for a time, appearin a very solid body." 19In conclucion I'd like to mention something I heard in the Florida Everglades from a memberof the Miccosukee tribe. Their term for the bigfoot is yati wasagi , meaning "seperated" or"different man"; they, too, believe the creatures can "phase in" from another dimension.One man, Bobby Tiger, said something, which, when I reflect on it now, in the troubled yearof 2001, makes me a little uneasy: 'All these things are part real and part not. We're going tosee more and more of them in different places. Then eventually the world will 'turn over onitself ' - and they'll phase in, while we phase out."Freaky.

Notes:1. Fred Beck, I Fought The Apemen of Mt St Helens, self published, 1967, p. 16.2. For a detailed comparison, see Tony Healy and Paul Cropper, Out of the Shadows, Ironbark/ Macmillen 1994, pp. 153-55.3. Ibid, p.1894. John Green, Sasquatch - The Apes Among Us, Hancock House, 1978, pp.260-61.5. Anderson, F., "The Yowie Mystery", Bigfoot, Tales of Unexplained Creatures. No further bibliographical information available.6. Janet and Colin Bord, The Bigfoot Casebook, Stackpole Books, 1982, p.112.7. Anderson, op. cit. 8. The Advertiser, Adelaide, 5 July 1973.9. Sydney Sun, 10 November 1912.10. Tony Healy, Monster Safari, unpublished MS , 1982, P.229.11. Tony Healy, notes of interview with Bill Grant, Scotland, 1999.!2. Healy and Cropper, op. cit. , pp. 127 and 129.13. Janet and Colin Bord, op. cit., p.115.14. Paul Cropper, notes of interview with Richard McDonald, April 2001.15. Martin McAdoo, If Only I'd Listened To Grandpa, Landsdown Press, 1980, chapter 4.16. Healy and Cropper, op. cit. , pp.141-43.17. McKay, RW, letters to Rod Estoppey, 13 Nov 1934 and 22 April 1940.18. Fred Beck, op. cit. , pp.7 and 10.

[Ants77]

Dion,

Thank you for that, it was an excellent read. And I completely understand that view. Amazing, I really think about the telepathic element alot, I think it's fascinating............ Thousands of years to develop their skills.

Cheers


A.

[ryno]

Dion that's a very good read...

Something to think about.....

[glenmore79]

Don't forget the Aborigines also believe this:


In the Dreamtime all earth lay sleeping. Nothing moved. Nothing grew. One day the Rainbow Serpent awoke from her slumber and came out from under the ground.

She travelled far and wide and eventually grew tired and curled up and slept. She left marks of her sleeping body and her winding tracks. Then she returned to the place where she had first appeared, and called to the frogs, “Come out!”

The frogs came out slow because their bellies were heavy with water, which they had stored in their sleep. The Rainbow serpent tickled their stomachs and when the frogs laughed, water ran all over the earth to fill the tracks of the Rainbow serpents’ wanderings. This is how lakes and rivers were formed.

[Ray Doherty]

I am with Ants, thanks Dion, fascinating!

[GlennO87]

They in my opinion are not all this magic bull c**p people go on about. The reason people are scared and freeze when they see them is because most people dont know they exsist, so there for seeing something out of the norm that is believed to me a mythical creature is gonna make you freeze. I would freeze if i saw a horse twice the size of a normal one with 4 heads.....

[glenmore79]

They in my opinion are not all this magic bull c**p people go on about.

No need to be subtle mate.

[Ants77]

They in my opinion are not all this magic bull c**p people go on about. The reason people are scared and freeze when they see them is because most people dont know they exsist, so there for seeing something out of the norm that is believed to me a mythical creature is gonna make you freeze. I would freeze if i saw a horse twice the size of a normal one with 4 heads.....

I Understand completely it is very hard to swallow, but these are some of the views of others, unless you've seen one bit hard to judge really. I'm all flesh and blood believer myself, but what Dion had put up wasn't c**p. It was documented fact from the O'conners.
If I saw a four headed horse I'd laugh my ass off. If I saw something that didn't make sence then I'd probably freeze, Yowie, ghosts, UFO's, all that stuff. Then again I'd probably do the bolt too!

Cheers


A.

[andrew]

They in my opinion are not all this magic bull c**p people go on about. ..

We have all experienced weird things in this world and it is unwise to suggest others are sprouting rubbish, thus implying we have a handle on everything in the universe. There is room enough for many opinions here. We do not have to agree with them all, just be open to the fact we do not know it all. We have seen before what a know it all attitude does on this forum when it it is unbridled and lacking in respect.

Try explaining how you can sense someone is staring at you from behind. My wife has the uncanny ability to know when the kids are in trouble, even when they are half a world away. Never known her to be wrong. Boggles my mind. Hers is not a unique ability, I am sure. Then there are recorded cases of twins feeling each others pains when they are separated by distance etc etc. There may be more to the "magic bull c**p" than you think.

There is so much we do not know about how the brains of humans work, let alone those of other animals.

In this game, the worst thing you can do is dismiss anything without proof.

[David Brenton]

In this game, the worst thing you can do is dismiss anything without proof.

I would suggest that there is one thing worse, and that is to accept something without evidence. Unless, of course, it is purely a matter of faith.

[tez]

Dion I find Fred Beck's understanding more conforms with widespread indigenous views. The aspect of walking backwards intrigues me as well, what do you think about that?

[Dion]

Hey Tez,

I have read Fred Becks Story of his encounter many, many years ago; and must admit I had forgotten a lot of what’s in it, but I do remember he said they were Spiritual, so me being me had to look it up again and give it another read.

http://www.bigfootencounters.com/classics/beck.htm

The below quotes are from the above link

I can say that we genuinely fought and were quite fearful, and we were glad to get out of the mountains but I was, for one, always conscious that we were dealing with supernatural beings, and I know the other members of the party felt the same.

Another very striking experience which shows that they cannot be natural beings with natural bodies: It was before we made our cabin, and we were staying in a tent then. The tent was below a little cone shaped mountain called Pumy Butte. A little creek flowed nearby, and there was a moist-sand bar about an acre in area. We would go there and wash our cooking utensils and bring our drinking water back. Early one morning Hank came back to the tent. He was rather excited. He led us to the moist-sand bar, and took us almost to the center. There in the center of the sand bar were two huge tracks about four inches deep. There was not another track on that sand bar!

There we were standing in the middle of the sand bar, and not one of us could conceive any earthly thing taking steps 160 feet long. "No human being could have made these tracks," Hank said, "and there's only one way they could be made, something dropped from the sky and went back up."

The easy way out for lots of people is to just consider it a wild tale. But too many people have seen them and the evidence is piling up to definitely prove this. The same line of escapism of thought concerning phenomenal sightings of Flying Saucers is evident. A report recently showed 5,000,000 Americans claimed to have seen Flying Saucers.

Material things usually make a big splash in the material world, and spiritual things often do not make a ripple there. Why? We can give proof of a phenomenon, but its nature is immersed in the Spiritual and can only be explained by laws of the spiritual.

In regards to the backward facing footprints not too sure on that one, most probably a result of not being able to track them, so hence they have backward facing prints.

[mlj1mlj1]

No magic, special gifts and skills yes, all natural, all flesh and blood...

[Neil Frost]

No magic, special gifts and skills yes, all natural, all flesh and blood...

G’day Mike,

I really have a problem with any paranormal “explanation” of these hominoids and also in general usage. For me, use of the term “paranormal” is simply a synonym for “an explanation that you use when you don’t have one”. Don’t get me wrong! There are many circumstances where we have no idea but, using a paranormal tag does not help! It does not explain anything! It would be better to say that, at this time, we don’t know! As Ruby has outlined, it is fodder for skeptics and disbelief for even broader minded, intelligent people.

As for the commonly referred characteristic of the “feet facing backwards”, I would suggest that, as this is clearly a redonkulous biological “adaption”, that rather, it alludes to their ability to avoid being tracked - you are going the wrong way! It may be paranormal because it is not real. All of the sources of this story that I am aware of, are secondary or so and from the few remaining elders who retain some knowledge. Clearly, it is not a physical characteristic but, an illusion!

As for Jerry and Sue, I am very familiar with their regular hominoid visitor and it’s behaviours. I have no problem verifying any of their encounters or observations. The difference here is the paradigm used to interpret the outcome.

For me, Fatfoot and the others were very highly adapted. Their sensory and physical abilities greatly exceeded our own. I can see how people could mistakenly interpret this as being mystical or paranormal.

Neil

[forestguy]

Their sensory and physical abilities greatly exceed our own.

I can see how people could mistakenly interpret this as being mystical or paranormal. The difference here is the paradigm used to interpret the outcome.

Bingo.

Apologies to Neil, I switched his text around a little bit, but I think these 3 sentences sum it up for a few of us - well, for me at least.

[Dion]

It’s of no surprise to see that people will always lean to one or the other Flesh and Blood or Paranormal.

And as Neil has alluded to Paranormal just means “Beyond the range of normal experience or scientific explanation”.

There are plenty of things in this world that are “beyond the range of normal experience” and or “have no scientific explanation” and I put Yowies, Bigfoot, Sasquatch and Yeti and many others in the same boat.

In fact these critters worldwide act more like Ghost, Poltergeist and UFO activity that anything else, (I say that because we have no physical proof that they exist)

The ability to disappear to in front of people’s eyes into seemingly thin air after being pursued or shot at is real? And yes, there are cases where this has happened, there was a case that came in not too long ago where two guys saw a Yowie cross the rd in front of them in the car, both came to the conclusion that the Yowie seemed to disappear before it got to the tree line? Did they both hallucinate at the same time? Was it their eyes playing tricks on them? Maybe?

The ability to know your every move, Telepathy encounters? Which is another phenomenon that gets overlooked; the list of strangeness goes on and on.

I do not believe that these strange encounters are just people’s imaginations getting away with them or playing tricks on them. There are many people who come forward with the same stories. After a while you have to look at them or you can either become set in your ways and dismiss it.

Some people I believe are cherry picking selecting material and cases which support their belief system (such as Seemingly Flesh and Blood sightings or encounters) and ignoring any material that doesn`t. We all have different encounters and or opinions there is nothing wrong with that. There is absolutely no positive proof that they are “purely” Flesh and Blood. It’s my belief that they are a bit of both, Flesh and Blood and Paranormal.

I mean really who can say they have a body of one, How do we get thousands upon thousands of sightings and encounters world-wide, yet still no Physical body has ever been found, with all the man power of the world exploring each and every corner of the earth nothing has ever been discovered, only a few fleeting glimpses of the creatures which get reported as a sighting or encounter and so the stories build up, to think that a huge “animal” (as people in the states like to call it) sometimes up to 12 ft high can evade man for so long is ridiculous.

Tell me why we get 2,3,4,5,6 and even 7 toed prints, none of which look categorically ever the same? Some Prints I have seen that people claim to have come from a Yowie look so deformed I wonder how they come to the conclusion that they are Yowie, who saw the Yowie make them?

Tell me why they evade the camera like the plague yet they can run right up to a recorder sitting in the bush and make a racket of a noise? , for an animal they are highly intelligent to be able to discern the difference between the two.

I quite often hear people in the United States talk about Sasquatch and where do they go when its winter and snowing, some say they go underground into caves, the fact of the matter is why has no one ever found these caves? in some areas where sasquatch is found they don’t even have caves so where do they go? They don’t make igloos.

There are many 4’s and against for both parties of Flesh and Blood and Paranormal, I think they are a bit of both, an ability to shift in and out of Dimensions.

It’s only an opinion, after all we are dealing with a mythical creature that doesn’t exist, right……….?

[andrew]

Stone-Throwers
{C.W. Peck, Aboriginal Legends, No XI, Sydney Mail, 14 March 1928. Aboriginal story of relevance to the Georges River area, north-west of Illawarra. The "Wullundigong" referred to in this story are similar to the Wallthegang (a small, long armed, hairy man who lives in trees and caves) of the Shoalhaven area and Cambewarra Mountain}

Two young aborigines - brothers - were journeying up George's River in order to inspect a piece of country in which the Persoonia grew plentifully. Its berries, called by us thought that by this time they must be ripe; so without telling anyone else of their intention they set off. Sometimes they heard people not far away and they hid, and even when a wallaby or a bandicoot made a noise by scampering through the undergrowth they stopped and remained still until all noise had ceased. But when a large stone fell just in front of them they were completely nonplussed, and they peered up amongst the branches of the great eucalypti and looked carefully along the top of the high bank and amongst the boulders and the undergrowth of myrtles and ferns. They saw no sign of anything that could have caused the stone to fall, so they went on. They had not gone far when they were again startled by the crashing down of another big stone. This one they examined, and their keen eyes detected hair on it that they knew came from no animal they had ever seen. They had no sooner touched this hair than there appeared before them a "wullundigong." He was a little man completely covered with hair, and immensely strong. He barred their way, and the two men were so afraid that they fainted. When they came to their senses again the "wullundigong" had gone. They knew then that they should not continue their journey to the place of the Persoonias; but, thinking that the "wullundigong" had gone for good, and that no one would again disturb them, they did go on. They reached the place, and found that the berries were quite ripe; but when they went to shake the tree in order to make those quite fit to eat drop to the ground they were horrified to find that the "wullundigong" sat in the branches. He looked very fierce, and grinned at them and made a horrid barking noise. In this fright they each seized a stone and hurled it at the hairy animal. The stones both found their mark, and with a cracked skull the "wullundigong" dropped to the ground. The men were overjoyed and seized him by the arms, intending to drag him from under the trees to a clear place so that they might better examine him, and perhaps get his kidney fat, for they believed that if they ate this fat they would be possessed of the strength of the animal. But the moment they touched it its spirit entered into each of them, and they became stone-throwers. Their arms grew long and of great strength, and hair grew all over them and over their bodies. They became human "wullundigongs." They ate all they wanted of the Persoonia berries, and then went back to their people. But they felt that they could not mix with them as they did before; so they climbed up amongst the boulders, and could not forbear the inclination to hurl stones down amongst the tribe. They were seen and with cries of "Wullundigong! Wullundigong!" the people ran away. They followed, and being human they could sometimes shed their "wullundigong" persons and become men. In this form they married, and their children were natural stone-throwers. They have never died. As "wullundigongs" they go away and live for periods in rocky places, and as men they join a tribe and are received in silence, and they choose wives; but if they can be caught just before the change takes place or while it is in progress they are killed. And Jhola's son was accused of being a "wullundigong." The little chap was certainly the state of transition. The child had shown no inclination whatever of any stone throwing disposition. His father was just a stranger who had come limping into the tribe one day, and because he limped he was kindly treated. He was not known to be a "wullundigong." No one had ever seen him turn hairy or throw stones. Jhola, too, was watchful, and the day came when the boy became very angry because a dog persisted in rubbing up against him, and he seized a stone. The doctor saw him, and he raised his spear. But Jhola could certainly throw a stone, and before the spear was hurled the doctor lay with a skull just as cracked as had been that of the old "wullundigong." No one blamed Jhola. She succeeded in persuading the people that her son was no hairy stone-thrower, and the new doctor never at any time tried to make out that he was.

[hunter hunted]

I believe Flesh and Blood,
As for coming thru port holes and different Dimensions .I have one Question if anyone could answer
How come all sightings are in remote or bush settings.Why have thier never been any reports of seeing one in your local shopping centre...Or
Appearing down your local street that does not have some sort off bush setting around it..

Just my thought

Cheers

[mlj1mlj1]

If Superman came to the planet tommorrow, we would all think he was special and extraordinary, on Crypton, he wasn't. Sasquatches are our Superman size, strength and speed. And yes, they have a few special skills above that as well that are in the mental realm...

[sapere aude]

Not much chance (IMO) of the yowie being a real/ normal biological creature after all this time, I feel. I would like to be proven wrong, but won't hold my breath.

If it evolved here, what from? Where are the evolutionary cousins, where are the dead ends that we find for other Hominids? What would be it's closest common ancestor, with other native creatures? If it came to this continent, how did it cross the Wallace line? Why are there no traces of it gradually settling from the north to colonise other areas?

Though beyond all of the above speculation and far more relevant, why are there no genuine unambiguous traces that there is any such thing as a yowie, or that there ever has been, to this day? A little odd for an extant large creature living in close proximity to civilisation. There is only one logical explanation for this IMO.

To further confuse things, accounts vary so much that the only explanation seems to be that there are several different species, making the chances even more remote.

Where is the yowie that was bitten by a snake, fell over a cliff, broke it's leg, hit by a falling tree/branch, caught in a bushfire, hit by a vehicle, hit by lightening, swept away in a flash flood, became incapacitated from disease etc etc etc?

What about accounts of yowies de-materialising.....?

The reasons given for yowies being able to evade detection for so long go beyond what can be accounted for by special adaptations or intelligence, IMO they are so unreasonable that they are describing magic.

For bigfoot it is even worse. Sightings in every state (how did it get to Hawaii?), yet nothing of the creature itself over the centuries. Palaeontologists digs in every state for a very long time and despite finding all manner of past species, nothing to indicate anything remotely resembling bigfoot. The notion that Gigantopithecus somehow moved from it's food source, crossed the frozen wastes and (if the PG film is as claimed) popped up in North America having evolved a human foot (some would say made of rubber ), human proportions, human locomotion and a modern western human face.....all the while leaving no trace of doing anything other than becoming extinct.....The chances of this happening are, to odds, what the Planck length is to distance.

Why does it have to be either flesh and blood or some mystical magical paranormal being with telepathy? Perhaps in reality, it is neither? IMO it is, as yet, unexplainable.

Our working knowledge of the universe is growing quickly. I can see where we will soon have a reasonable knowledge from the first instant up until present that will all come under the broad heading of evolution. Including how life started (abiogenesis experiments will get there eventually IMO). This knowledge will still amount to a pimple on a pumpkin. When we finally get around to understanding how matter becomes conscious, what consciousness is and it's relationship to matter/energy we might understand a lot more about what we now call "paranormal" IMO. This could redefine some areas of science, or become a completely new area of science itself.

Very little is known about the human psyche. This is the only common thread I can see. Not necessarily simply "imagination", as much as something we don't have the capacity to understand at this point.

[Dion]

Sapere IMO (emphasis added) you said it better than I.

[tez]

Dion re: "There are many 4’s and against for both parties of Flesh and Blood and Paranormal, I think they are a bit of both, an ability to shift in and out of Dimensions. "

Yes there is nothing to say they cant be both. This is also what I understand to be the belief of various indigenous people of northern nsw.

Agree with Neil that they also possess heightened powers which enables their elusiveness.

A transdimensional reality/ability for me helps to explain much. Perhaps a solely spiritual view and a solely physical view misses the mark in terms of their being, of which, in terms of knowledge, we are all learning about ( and on that point I thank the many contributors here for their insights and first hand experiences)

Also thanks Andrew for that fascinating ethnographic report from the 1920s. The ability to change, and transfer, to become like they are is fascinating and speaks to me more of the enchanted realm that existed in Australia before the processes which commenced in 1788 grew, expanded and transformed both tribal societies and the bush itself.

hunter hunted's comment about why they only seem to manifest in bush realms or putative portals there is also a good one. Could it be that our urbanized society somehow blocks these former portals. Reports from the Blue Mountains (NSW) going back to the 1970s definitely locate the hairy man on the very edge of urban development and I think this was Neil's experience also. The bush however seems to be their special environment?

[Dion]

Hey Tez

I agree the bush is there home, and there is no reason for them to appear in city areas.

The below link has an example of a Yowie sighting happening north of Broken Hill, to my knowledge Broken Hill is pretty much a dust bowl than anything else, how a yowie could survive out there has me scratching my head? http://www.yowiehunters.com.au/index.ph ... Itemid=132

Which leads to another question of sustenance, how does up to a 6-12ft creature sustain itself in the bush? or in this case north of Broken Hill (estimate 7ft) in the dust bowls if it’s purely Flesh and Blood?

[hunter hunted]

Have a read of the Bible ,
The Birth of Esau and Jacob....Rebbecca had twin sons one was Esau the other Jacob it is written that Esau was first born was said to be reddish and his skin was said to be like a hairy Robe.the first and second testorment mention this the first being the better.Esau also prefered the out doors and was a good hunter .Jacob prefered the indoors..

Food for thought .

Cheers

[Neil Frost]

G’day everyone,

I would like to think that, drawing from repeated experiences, there is nothing paranormal about these hominoids! Sure, when Ian and I regularly pursued Fatfoot and others, they did seem to disappear in mid-chase on many occasions, almost as if Scotty had beamed them up! However, as we learnt from their behaviour and they from us, it was apparent that they were employing a number of strategies, that could have seemed supernatural to some.

Specifically, Fatfoot would mask her movement by: stepping in sync with us and similarly, use the sound of wind gusts as cover; crouch within a thick bush, giving the impression of having vanished; hide behind and move around trees; double back; fain different avenues of escape - throw objects in the opposite direction; accelerate to high speed, rapidly moving out of the area; move through dense bush, rather than going around obstacles, as we did; deliberately create distractions; more effectively utilised a better knowledge of the local environment; used stealth; intimidated and; more, if I thought about it for longer. Additionally, these circumstances occurred at night and should not require further comparative, sensory discussion. Clearly, these behaviours duly demonstrate more than simple animal intelligence and consequently, an ability to deceive. The more complex “extraterrestrial” or “inter-dimensional” explanations are not required and there is clearly no evidence to support them.

I have talked to a few other long term witnesses of habitualised hairy men, who have similarly spoken of their playful nature and ability to deceive, depending upon the circumstances. One witness spoke of the extreme anger of their hairy man at being discovered, as if this should not have occurred! I my case, together with Robert, I acutely remember being roared at from about six feet and only separated by a small bush that was being used as cover. From experience we had learnt that the last heard instance of the dooligahl is most likely the current location where it is hiding.

I hope that this helps.

Neil

[Jo Blose]

Neil,

Your stance in relation to the Yowie being flesh and blood is exactly the same stance taken by researchers Brett Green and Pixie Byrnes, for exactly the same reasons. Brett Green has no argument they can disappear even in broad daylight, going so far as to allude they can become invisible to the human observer or at least not interesting enough to be observable to the human observer. Pixie will also attest to observing this ability. Even if they are indeed flesh and blood, such a skill suggests an ability for which we have no explanation and is easy to lump into the "paranormal basket." Let's face it, we're not talking about a willow-the-wisp, we're talking about something that presents as a corporeal seven to eight foot tall brick outhouse on legs covered in hair, which for all intents and purposes ought to move more ponderously based upon it's size, instead of the opposite occurring.

The Flesh and blood stance has it's merits in that field research is approached on a physical level. Researchers look for physical evidence. You're right Neil, any paranormal explanation, while providing a short term answer, doesn't offer any assistance other than implying research into these sightings amounts to a total waste of time and energy.

It would be of value if one day in the not too distant future, a meeting were to occur between the most prolific researchers who also happen to have the most fantastic accounts (you all know who you are), to discover what common ground can be established and what differences of opinion exist.

[Ants77]

Hello,


Do you think an understanding will happen or, will some change their opinion. I understand the whole it's incorrect terminology. But if researchers want to believe that, well I think that's their call. No matter how experienced I'll will become, I never want to mould anyone to my ways, diversity is educational, sharing info I think is completely different.
I'd love nothing more than to sit and listen to very informed and well experienced researchers from all over. I'd be there in a blink of an eye.
I'm very open minded and listen to all if I didn't I'd be ignorant and my own research would suffer I think.
Cheers


A.

[glenmore79]

Completely Plausible !


Yowies and other hairy humanoids visit our dimension just to rummage through our trash for used dog food tins, to rip heads off other animals and to wander aimlessly through the bush at night looking for campers to scare the willies out of.

[Jo Blose]

Kangaroos.
People will say the most likely explanation is people are encountering big kangaroos standing back with their chests thrust out. Kangaroos have faces, shoulders, chests, they are muscular, they are hairy, and the larger ones can reach a height of about seven feet tall when standing fully upright. Even more, most encounters occur in dim lighting and they can also lunge at people and strike out at them.

Most people will say encounters are misidentification if they are being kind, a very realistic dream is being sympathetic, and a downright lie if they want to get nasty. If someone produces startling evidence it is automatically dismissed as hoax. This is why witnesses are reluctant to come forward.