Do you think yowies are flesh and blood or something else???

[FM80]

I'm not so sure about being chained within the Earth somewhere, but they are mentioned to be chained in darkness;

"Jude 1:6

'And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.' "

The Great Day could refer to the day of The Lord at the end of all times prophesied in Revelations, The Day of Judgement.
However, there are theories to suggest that the Nephilim, the Fallen Ones, are in fact everything that takes our focus away from God.
The Nephilim could be Hairy Men, they could be Aliens, they could be Ghosts.

These are some links that touch on the subject.

About the Nephilim posing as Gods and Aliens:
http://revelationnow.net/2012/02/05/the ... -stand-up/

About the Nephilim in general:
http://socioecohistory.wordpress.com/20 ... -delusion/

This link describes the Nephilim and it states they had strong psychic powers,
' " According to tradition, in addition to being very large and strong, the Nephilim had enormous psychic abilities. They performed out of body experiences, levitation, mind control, time travel, mind reading and remote viewing. They had the power of pronouncing and removing curses and diseases, and had ways of knowing and predicting the future. Having aligned themselves with Satan, the source of their powers, they controlled and enslaved mankind and perverted God’s creation almost beyond redemption.

They were also extremely intelligent. They knew all about science, architecture, and engineering. Some believe they combined these skills with their powers of levitation to build the Great Pyramid and other great monuments around the pre-flood world. They sacrificed human beings all over the planet in temples and pyramids they built in Central and South America, the Far East, the British Isles, Egypt and other places. They drank our blood and slaughtered our babies, and were almost certainly tampering with both human and animal gene pools to pervert the creation and make our redemption impossible. They were the heroes of old, the mighty men of renown, memorialized in every mythology, and the primary reason God had to destroy the world and all its inhabitants in the Great Flood." '


http://gracethrufaith.com/ikvot-hamashi ... -nephilim/

The bible is full of outdated and outrageous ideas, I think there's more productive information in modern day books.

[Dion]

The bible is full of outdated and outrageous ideas

To some yes to others not so.

The point of this thread is about finding out what people believe is a motivating force behind the existence of the Yowie whether it be Flesh and Blood or otherwise.

Opinions are welcome, from any source of information.

[andrew]

The bible is full of outdated and outrageous ideas, I think there's more productive information in modern day books.

Can't agree with you there entirely. Archaeology owes much to the Bible as a source of historical fact and as one example I would mention the Hittite Kingdom, about which we knew nothing, other than what was in the Bible, until it's library was found last century after the Bible was studied to determine where the palace likely lay hidden. There are others. As regards the symbolism and Revelations, pun intended, I think Neil nailed it when he indicated that it all depends on the paradigm through which such things are viewed. However, it never does to dismiss what is in old books just because they are old. All good stories have an element of truth to them. Finding it through an evolved cultural filter is the dilemma. Some of that I find too esoteric so I tend to leave it to the philosophers and Oxford dons to ponder.

On a separate tack, I am not all that convinced that modern humans have found a superior solution to the ills and woes of society. Outdated? - no. Outrageous? - hardly, especially when you look at the "normal" and "accepted" behaviour and beliefs of the likes of modern politicians and central bankers as one example.

[glenmore79]

bunch of outlandish fairytales

[David Brenton]

Can't agree with you there entirely. Archaeology owes much to the Bible as a source of historical fact and as one example I would mention the Hittite Kingdom, about which we knew nothing, other than what was in the Bible, until it's library was found last century after the Bible was studied to determine where the palace likely lay hidden.

Interesting. Source?

Which Bible, by the way?the Wycliffe? The King James, the Gutenberg, the Vulgate or one of the many other versions?

I am not all that convinced that modern humans have found a superior solution to the ills and woes of society. Outdated? - no. Outrageous? - hardly, especially when you look at the "normal" and "accepted" behaviour and beliefs of the likes of modern politicians and central bankers as one example.

The Bible, particularly the Old testament, is possibly the last guide for socially acceptable, normal behaviour. I wouldn't be holding it up as a any sort of guide, unless you think the following list of god approved activities kosher.
Genocide, incest, slavery, rape, torture, infanticide.
Politicians and bankers usually only lie and steal.

[Dion]

If people are going to be Bible Bashing can you start a new thread for that?

The last few posts have no relevance to the Topic of this thread. RE: Do you think yowies are flesh and blood or something else???

Ty

[David Brenton]

If people are going to be Bible Bashing can you start a new thread for that?

The last few posts have no relevance to the Topic of this thread. RE: Do you think yowies are flesh and blood or something else???

Ty

You stated yourself;

Because this thread has grown into a religious area it has been moved.

It is now in the relevant area, as I read it. "Controversial conjecture and debate." Placed here because of the sidetracking into religion.

If you are uncomfortable perhaps it should be shifted back into the general discussion, and the religiosity removed, or split from where all the faithful began including their beliefs.

[andrew]

If people are going to be Bible Bashing can you start a new thread for that?

The last few posts have no relevance to the Topic of this thread. RE: Do you think yowies are flesh and blood or something else???

Ty

As a book that is a compilation from a number of sources and written in a number of ancient languages like the many forms of aramaic, greek, egyptian and other proto-languages of the region, it is the one of the earliest records of knowledge from around 500 to 800BC and probably much earlier. In that regard it is just a history book and why it is used by archaeologists, botanists, anthropologists and other sciences to increase our knowledge. And that was the first point I was making. If others wish to display their unthinking bias and intentionally misread what I wrote then that is their problem, but it does not surprise me. After all, unbridled skeptics usually throw out the baby with the bath water.

My second point is that there are values in the book on how we should respect and interact with others in society and those values have not been bettered by modern man for all his law making which, from the earliest parliaments, has been based on Judeo-Christian foundations of what constitutes acceptable behaviour. These values are best expressed in the opening of the American Declaration of Independence: "We hold these truths to be self-evident'

Do not the many considerate people on this forum not accept and display such good values. I find they do. There are exceptions of course but we all readily recognize them for what they are. Do NOT misunderstand me. I am not trying to Bible bash and "religious" discussions do belong on another forum The Bible means much or little to everyone. My position is quite clear. I am not interesting in debating the issue with those whose emotional hackles immediately rise at the very mention of the word "Bible". For me, evidence and knowledge is where you find it.

[Dion]

David Brenton

I moved the thread here because it was becoming religious, that is to say that parts of the Bible were being brought up "in reference to the Yowie", it was on topic.

A few post have not been on Topic, that is to say the guidelines of the board are “This is a section of our Forum where those who hold passionate views about various aspects of Theology, Creation and Religion, pertaining to the Yowie can be politely debated, away from our mainstream friendly Yowie / Bigfoot Discussion Board".

If the above posts about the bible were in relation to the Yowie then it may be a good idea to state why? and how? That’s all.

[David Brenton]

David Brenton

I moved the thread here because it was becoming religious, that is to say that parts of the Bible were being brought up "in reference to the Yowie", it was on topic.

A few post have not been on Topic, that is to say the guidelines of the board are “This is a section of our Forum where those who hold passionate views about various aspects of Theology, Creation and Religion, pertaining to the Yowie can be politely debated, away from our mainstream friendly Yowie / Bigfoot Discussion Board".

If the above posts about the bible were in relation to the Yowie then it may be a good idea to state why? and how? That’s all.

Righto.

Using the bible a any sort of reference (other than dogma), cryptozoologically or otherwise is stretching plausibility to breaking point.
Before musing on the nature of yowies being the offspring of angels, demons etc, perhaps just establish that they actually exist.
Explaining a mystery with an even bigger on is explaining nothing at all.

[daniel john]

Righto.

Using the bible a any sort of reference (other than dogma), cryptozoologically or otherwise is stretching plausibility to breaking point.
Before musing on the nature of yowies being the offspring of angels, demons etc, perhaps just establish that they actually exist.
Explaining a mystery with an even bigger on is explaining nothing at all.

well said.

Dan

[forestguy]

^ In your opinion.

Just the same as all of the posts in this thread are individual opinions - the name of the topic says it all "Do you think...?"

Explaining a mystery with an even bigger on is explaining nothing at all.

Like 'debunking' an imaginary creature by 'debunking' an ancient, much maligned, book.

In the spirit of the thread, what are your thoughts on the possible nature of the yowie David?

[Dion]

Explaining a mystery with an even bigger on is explaining nothing at all.

You may be correct in your thinking, seeing as the Yowie is not scientifically proven, I agree.

How then do we establish a connection with sightings/encounters from thousands of people worldwide with the strange or unexplainable? Including those who believe them to be Flesh and Blood when there is no evidence for either? apart from stories and experiences from firsthand witnesses there is not much one can do to prove this phenomena to anyone.

Quite frankly it is a mystery, they pop up in locations, yet when you go and look for them they are nowhere to be seen?

That’s why I am open to ideas, theory’s and others beliefs, even if it is a mystery upon a mystery. There is no harm to think outside the box, anyone who thinks they have the answers is kidding themselves. I have my theories and opinions and that’s where it stops.

[Lone wolf]

Hello , I'm new here but saw your conversation and decided to add a little something .

You , here , on AYR are at the very fringe of science , bordering on fantasy . I'm guessing around 90% of the population does not even believe in the existence of the yowie , maybe more than 90% , your a joke to them . So how can we say that the yowie cant disappear ? People are reporting this vanishing act , some reports say right in front of their eye's . WHY ????.....................are they on drugs ? Are their minds unbalanced ? Is this some way to explain something that they dont understand ?

Can we be so naive as to dismiss it when were clearly in the 10% of the population that the other 90% thinks is crazy ?

Has ANYONE here seen them dissapear ? The indidgenous people believe they can . I havent seen it happen , but who are we to judge those who have , when we clearly dont have all the facts .

[Dion]

You , here , on AYR are at the very fringe of science , bordering on fantasy .

Hey Lone Wolf

Believe it or not you’re absolutely correct, cant argue with you there, it is a fantasy for most of the population, but to those in the know (had there own sighting/encounter) they are very real.

Welcome to the board.

[FM80]

The bible is full of outdated and outrageous ideas, I think there's more productive information in modern day books.

Can't agree with you there entirely. Archaeology owes much to the Bible as a source of historical fact and as one example I would mention the Hittite Kingdom, about which we knew nothing, other than what was in the Bible, until it's library was found last century after the Bible was studied to determine where the palace likely lay hidden. There are others. As regards the symbolism and Revelations, pun intended, I think Neil nailed it when he indicated that it all depends on the paradigm through which such things are viewed. However, it never does to dismiss what is in old books just because they are old. All good stories have an element of truth to them. Finding it through an evolved cultural filter is the dilemma. Some of that I find too esoteric so I tend to leave it to the philosophers and Oxford dons to ponder.

On a separate tack, I am not all that convinced that modern humans have found a superior solution to the ills and woes of society. Outdated? - no. Outrageous? - hardly, especially when you look at the "normal" and "accepted" behaviour and beliefs of the likes of modern politicians and central bankers as one example.

OK, we disagree on the bible, fair enough, but looking for help on yowies in the bible in my opinion is a waste of time. More up to date books would have more relevant information.

[FM80]

For the record I think they are flesh and blood.

[David Brenton]

In the spirit of the thread, what are your thoughts on the possible nature of the yowie David?

Were yowies (or any other cryptid)ever discovered to be an actual living, breathing creature, they would
be just that. Like every other organism on the planet, they would very likely have no supernatural element.

That said, the little evidence there is for yowies (corporeal or otherwise) is not particularly persuasive.
Not to say that they dont exist, mind you. I just would like to see better evidence.

[andrew]

Using the bible a(s) any sort of reference (other than dogma), cryptozoologically or otherwise is stretching plausibility to breaking point.

You might like to read the works of the highly respected archaeologist Nelson Glueck on the historical accuracy of canonical texts. If you don't know who he was then Wikipedia has a good summary.

[David Brenton]

Using the bible a(s) any sort of reference (other than dogma), cryptozoologically or otherwise is stretching plausibility to breaking point.

You might like to read the works of the highly respected archaeologist Nelson Glueck on the historical accuracy of canonical texts. If you don't know who he was then Wikipedia has a good summary.

From the suggested wiki page.
"Dr. Glueck always maintained that his faith was not based on a literal interpretation of the bible. To do that, he once said, would be to "confuse fact with faith, history with holiness, science with religion."

Science uses the Null Hypothesis. Anyone that uses religion to inform their science is simply doing it wrong.
Good science has/is/will been done by the religious, but only if they can manage to maintain separation.
However, as pointed out by Dion, this may be drifting away from the topic of the thread.

There is nothing in the bible that leads to any sort of reference to Yowies without substantial creativity on the behalf of the reader.

[andrew]

There is nothing in the bible that leads to any sort of reference to Yowies without substantial creativity on the behalf of the reader.

We actually agree totally on that point. There is nothing in the Bible that can lead to a conclusion that the giants and hairy people mentioned were anything other than H. sapiens. Maybe some were not H. sapiens sapiens but without dna from ancient skeletal remains we will never know.

My debate is that you made categorical statements that using the Bible as a reference for anything was stretching plausability to the breaking point, and in that respect your were absolutely incorrect. My comments were NEVER about religion or yowies, but rather about taking issue with unsubstantiated sweeping statements that are patently wrong and play fast and loose with the truth.

[David Brenton]

My debate is that you made categorical statements that using the Bible as a reference for anything was stretching plausability to the breaking point, and in that respect your were absolutely incorrect. My comments were NEVER about religion or yowies, but rather about taking issue with unsubstantiated sweeping statements that are patently wrong and play fast and loose with the truth.

Anything other than dogma. If I were inclined towards matters of the spirit, and inclined towards that particular faith, I would indeed look to the bible for guidance.


You do understand that the collection of tales that constitute the Bible has been rewritten and reinterpreted a great many times, I'm sure.
You may be surprised to learn, Andrew, that the bible isn't an accurate scientific or historical text. Bushes are consumed when ignited, snakes do not talk, the earth is 4 billion years old (thereabouts) and the dead do not rise after three days.

Unless you can produce some extremely remarkable evidence of these events and similar, of course.
The Bible as a rule isn't used by academics, or anyone else for that matter, in the pursuits of archaeology, botany, anthropology or any other sciences that increase our knowledge.
If it is, Andrew, they are doing it wrong. This is called cherry picking, special pleading, and moving the goalpost. These unfortunate tendencies are very much the domain if the scientifically illiterate.

Of course, I may be wrong. Can you provide specific evidence that the bible is used by archaeologists, botanists, anthropologists and other sciences to increase our knowledge? Actual science, not just generalizations. Something that I can actually check.
I an particularly fascinated by the botany. Perhaps the burning bush?
T

[sapere aude]

People are reporting this vanishing act , some reports say right in front of their eye's . WHY ????.....................are they on drugs ? Are their minds unbalanced ? Is this some way to explain something that they dont understand ?

Good points Lone wolf. A creature which leaves no trace, suffers none of the mishaps which befall other creatures, appears and disappears as if out of thin air, tracks that simply end as if whatever made them vanished, in fact reports of them doing just that.

A creature with extreme intelligence, that hasn't worked out that if you make one end of a stick pointy it becomes a spear, no hint of the use of fire, art, culture.....

Special adaptions and intelligence don't quite seem to cover this, unless they have adapted a Harry Potter invisibility cloak? Perhaps we should consult Professor Snape?

This is a cultural rather than physical phenomena IMO. Yet I think there is far more to it than imagination, what that entails I have no idea. I am open to the great possibility that at present, it could be beyond our ability to understand...which some might call "supernatural".

Can't agree with you there entirely. Archaeology owes much to the Bible as a source of historical fact and as one example I would mention the Hittite Kingdom, about which we knew nothing, other than what was in the Bible.

If you are talking about the Levantine people of Anatolia (not the Palestinian biblical version), they are not the Hittites mentioned in the bible. This is an apologist myth, even many apologists themselves now acknowledge this. They have far more (accurate) information about them from the Egyptions, than from the bible. They were never in Palestine, certainly not at the time claimed. Perhaps an offshoot of them were, this is debatable. There is much doubt about how they even came to be dubbed "Hittites", other than to connect them with biblical passages.

It's fair enough to give "opinions" on the bible re Yowies, as people have done. Claiming the bible as an accurate historical record is a bit rich. In view of the fact that the flood, Jewish slave race in Egypt, exodus, crossing the red sea, wandering the desert etc to begin with, are completely unsupported and imaginary events.

As to moralising, please read this paper. Not so much for it's hypothesis, but for the facts it is based on.

http://www.epjournal.net/wp-content/upl ... 984414.pdf

[sapere aude]

Of course, I may be wrong. Can you provide specific evidence that the bible is used by archaeologists, botanists, anthropologists and other sciences to increase our knowledge? Actual science, not just generalizations. Something that I can actually check.
I an particularly fascinated by the botany. Perhaps the burning bush?
T

I doubt there would be much trouble doing this. The problem is that scientists can be and in many instances were/are "devout" giving rise to the popular image of an archaeologist with bible in one hand and a map in the other intent on proving the myth. Historically much of the work in this area seems to have had, as it's objective, finding that which might support one or other version of religious event and usually funded by those with a religious agenda. Doesn't seem very objective and I find the old fashioned notion of the "Biblical Based/Religious Scientist" that still abounds in more fundamentalist countries like the US in particular, an odd one and difficult to take seriously (quite an oxymoron).

Thankfully modern interdisciplinary scientific methods and shifts in funding are changing this and even those with a vested interest are beginning to admit there is no evidence of the main myths of the bible (such as exodus). Archaeological theories seem to be veering more in the direction of consistency with other science such as cosmology, evolutionary biology (that relegate genesis to mythology, for instance), Modern secular/unbiased opinion can still be difficult to find, but does exist thankfully.

There is no problem citing belief in the bible as a basis for forming opinions on Yowies (or anything else). Though to claim it as a genuine or unimpeachable historical source is not only problematic but completely ignores facts, in favour of myth.

[forestguy]

Can you provide specific evidence that the bible is used by archaeologists, botanists, anthropologists and other sciences to increase our knowledge? Actual science, not just generalizations.

Here's one from earlier this year:

http://phys.org/news/2012-05-archaeolog ... -king.html

Do you really need more - there are heaps, especially for archaeology & anthropology?

[David Brenton]

Can you provide specific evidence that the bible is used by archaeologists, botanists, anthropologists and other sciences to increase our knowledge? Actual science, not just generalizations.

Here's one from earlier this year:

http://phys.org/news/2012-05-archaeolog ... -king.html

Do you really need more - there are heaps, especially for archaeology & anthropology?

Yes. The more the merrier.
Which particular passages of the bible would you say led this work?
How specific was that information. And is it to be found anywhere else?
Bearing in mind that in the biblical lands. Every stone overturned revels some history.
I am particularly interested in any botanical connections.
Andrew?

[Dion]

Guys starting to become a little off topic again.

If you wish to discuss why the Bible is a relevant source of information or irrelevant, then please start a new thread.

If your posts have to do with the Yowie then state so.

[glenmore79]

Good points Lone wolf. A creature which leaves no trace, suffers none of the mishaps which befall other creatures, appears and disappears as if out of thin air, tracks that simply end as if whatever made them vanished, in fact reports of them doing just that.

A creature with extreme intelligence, that hasn't worked out that if you make one end of a stick pointy it becomes a spear, no hint of the use of fire, art, culture.....

Special adaptions and intelligence don't quite seem to cover this, unless they have adapted a Harry Potter invisibility cloak? Perhaps we should consult Professor Snape?

Silverback Gorillas weren't officially recognised until 193X
No trace, no foot print, no tools, no fire, as intelligent as us

Dolphins, no tools, no fire, as intelligent as us.

/thread

[David Brenton]

Silverback Gorillas weren't officially recognised until 193X

What is your source for this date.? It does seem somewhat incongruous. Silverbacks are males, by the way.
Thomas Staughton Savage and Jeffries Wyman first taxonimised gorillas in 1847, and they have been described as far back as 480 bc

No trace, no foot print, no tools, no fire, as intelligent as us

Dolphins, no tools, no fire, as intelligent as us.

Gorillas certainly are not as intelligent as humans. Their brain volume is 350-500cc, compared to human 1200-1500.
Dolphins I believe tend to be slightly larger on average. Up to 1700cc.
Brain volume isn't necessarily the be all and end all of intelligence. The brain/body weight ratio is also an important factor.
This is called the Encephalization Quotient.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encephalization_quotient

[Pandabear]

Wow. What an interesting thread. I'd like to inject some info here. Firstly, not nearly enough evidence exists for us to know much about them at all. Not nearly enough for any firm conclusions. But the Australian Aborigines and the American Indians,who have observed and interacted with the hairy people for thousands of years, believe they are both physical and spiritual. They also say that they have culture and think of them more as people than animals. Who knows? But let's look at it this way. Telepathy has been scientifically quantified. In other words, they've done enough research to prove it's real using statistical analysis, and tight scientific protocols. Same goes for 'out of body experiences' (also known as remote viewing, the ability to view a place or event without being there physically), telekinesis, and many other "paranormal" activities. For those who haven't read Jim Marrs' book 'Psy Spies' about US Government remote viewing, I highly recommend it. In it, ex-military remote viewers talk about how anyone was able to remote view, and all it took was training. Many people believe the same is true with such things as telepathy. In other words, these things aren't super human attributes, just skills we've never learnt because our cultures ridicule it and discourage even thinking about it.

Being able to summon up an interdimensional portal and walk through it, if it is possible, doesn't necessarily mean you are not flesh and blood. It just means that you understand existence better than the rest of us. There are plenty of instances where psychic phenomenon have been shown to be real. Who's read about the woman in London who has full on coversations with her parrot? When researchers visited her, they found that it could read her mind even from another room and that it was reading her mind when she read books. That was proven. Unfortunately, when researchers find that they can quantify it but not determine the "HOW" of it, they tend to say it isn't real.

Getting back to remote viewers, the CIA funded remote viewers talked about in Jim Marrs' book found that not only could they view other places on earth through remote viewing, but could also see into the past or the future or into other galaxies. Remote viewing planets that hadn't been seen by probes showed that the remote viewers were eventually proven right when the probes passed by and photographed the planets. The CIA eventually admitted to the program when several of their researchers went public in the late 90's or early 2000's. They claimed that, when officials came to visit, they could give them a simple exercise to do and the visitor would be able to remote view very accurately. Apparently, anyone could do it using their simple protocols, if they just gave it enough practice.

Albert Einstein said, "Energy is everything ... everything is energy". Information gleaned throught the CIA's remote viewing program found ideas and experiences to back this idea up. Although we have several ideas about our universe, whether or not we are what we think we are, whether or not evolution is real, the only truth is that we just don't know. We like to think we do, since we've been told all our lives that we do, so we claim other ideologies are wrong, but time usually proves us wrong. Are they real or spiritual? Both perhaps. Now for the big question. Are we physical or spiritual? Or both?