Outer-space or home-grown.

[Tuckeroo]

Outer-space or home-grown.

I was viewing the Westall ufo case from Melbourne in 1966, as it was the 50th anniversary of this incident.
I had forgotten about it for a number of years and this week I became fascinated again by this remarkable home-
grown ufo encounter. It got me thinking on a number of fronts, with ideas I hadn’t previously thought about.

One eye-witness; while being interviewed outdoors, pointed to the ground in front of him and with his hand
in a circular motion described a disc shaped object around two or three metres in diameter that he had been standing
next to as a school boy.
He said that at the time he ‘could feel the heat coming off it’ then it slowly took off and went up through the tree tops.

Is he telling the truth ? If not, he’ll get an academy award, as other witnesses would, for his acting.

So let's assume he’s telling the truth, the next question for me is why would a flying machine like that; small and probably
pilotless, travel across intergalactic space, only to plop down in the back streets of Westall.
( I’m aware of other sized craft seen that day ).
My premise being that it is from here, not somewhere out there in space.

In all the ufo stories I’m aware of I’ve never come across one where the witness describes a craft that is so small.
He didn’t describe windows or doors, just a sealed metallic object with a surface appearance of sections being riveted or
screwed together.
For proponents of military involvement in some way, this idea holds weight when you see how quick and fairly well organized
the response was by the authorities. Maybe I’m pushing that point a bit much but in the interviews there were just as many
stories about the actions of authorities afterwards then about the initial incident.

The military may have been tracking these objects on radar all morning and not known what they were and were ready with
response teams, but I still think that even if there was human, human/alien or alien involvement in their facility they are from
here and not from outer-space.
There is an argument that aliens may exist in another dimension or live under mountain ranges, for all we know, but it all happens
here, not out there in space.

I always wondered why ufo pics and witness drawings are usually aerodynamic. From way back in the 1950’s till now, witnesses
usually describe an aerodynamic saucer shaped craft. This seems to be the the most popular image, with slight variations;
crescent or cigar shapes or sometimes triangles like that huge shape that drifted over Phoenix a while back, all aerodynamic.
Disregarding their means of levitation, thrust, steering and braking; they all look like they are the best design to pass though
an atmosphere such as here on earth, as are all man-made aircraft.

Our satellites pass over head and facilitate our communication and they’re the least aerodynamic of any man-made technology
that’s designed to work above ground in space. Sure the space-shuttle is shaped like a aeroplane but that’s only for its exit and
entry, even if it does fly like a pair of plyers. That shape is not needed when they are outside our atmosphere floating about.

In 1969 when the lunar module descended onto the moons surface not one bit of its shape and design was aerodynamic.
Theoretically speaking, would a needle shaped craft a few metres long or something the shape and size of a city building move
through outer-space with equal measure and subsequent effects. ?

Meteorites only start glowing when they enter earths atmosphere, the space shuttle only gets an orange glow through the
windscreen when it starts dipping towards earth, all this because of friction against our atmosphere.
So does the same thing happen in space and that’s why a pointed smooth shape is preferred because it reduces heat build up
and the eventual disintegration of the craft.
Does a space craft need to be aerodynamic (ditto earths atmosphere) to travel through space. I always thought there was zero
or minimal friction in space so no heat is produced except from a power source. The expensive ceramic tiles covering the space
shuttle are there for protection from extreme heat when re-entering earths atmosphere but not for when they are out there in space.

Everything we send up there needs to be aerodynamically shaped for exit and entry, once its up there its shape doesn’t seem to
matter, so why are ufo’s shaped aerodynamically if they aren’t made to travel through our atmosphere.

I know people will say what about ancient texts and biblical images of flying things, but are they really description’s of flying things
in our modern sense of aircraft design. Why were the ufo’s different back then to what they are now. Because the imagery from back
then reflects a zero understanding of flight technology and our imagery now reflects our understanding of it.
( at least for the last 70 years or so). Ufo descriptions prior to the 20th century usually aren't aerodynamic but the ones after this
time are.
All respect to people who say they have been abducted or had frightening interactions or experiences but they don’t often say they were
taken to another planet, that's because it all happens here on earth.

That small disc that the schoolboy stood next to seems to have few reasons to come from outer-space but every reason to come from
earth.
With many ufo sightings each year; buzzing around the planet you get the idea that when they are finished buzzing around for
the day, why would they travel light years back home just to come back tomorrow for some more buzzing.
They have always been here, at least for the last 70 years or so and are staying and are not going anywhere. The aerodynamic shape of
their craft used in earth's atmosphere reflects this.

There’s plenty of evidence to say they exist and have interactions with us humans but there’s no evidence to say they have
come from outer-space to do this.

I kept coming back to this idea and couldn’t leave it alone. I was going to hit the delete button several times when I was writing this
and abandone the whole strange idea but I felt like stirring the possum a bit so I thought I could at least put it out there even though
it sounds a bit farfetched.
You can see I’m an armchair physicist and expect these ideas to be snuffed out one by one by anyone that cares to respond. At least for me
it’s a fresh way of thinking about the ufo phenomenon and those other living beings that pilot those craft.
Maybe one day we will find out what they are and we will have to rename them pufo’s,
Previously Unidentified Flying Objects.

Any comments……

T.

[Searcher]

Hey Tuckeroo, That’s some post there! Lots of points to discuss, but at this stage, I’ll just say one thing. If you are a serious researcher, you will be aware of many 100’s of reports of occupants associated with landed craft.

Most of the descriptions of these beings are 3-4 foot tall with insect like heads. And there are a lot more incredible shapes and sizes. They sure don't look like us! It has been stated by military witnesses on the Disclosure Project that we are being visited by over 50 different races of star people that they know of.

The evidence available strongly suggests they are not of this Earth. However, I also believe we have reverse engineered alien craft and have been flying them for many years. Lots of evidence for that… check out this deathbed confession from Ben Rich, former CEO of the Lockheed Skunk works.
http://www.ufo-blogger.com/2010/08/ufo- ... skunk.html

[TrevorPeters]

Some good points there.

Probably the most serious UFO phenomenon researchers of the last century, Dr. J.Allen Hynek (Advisor to the US Air Force, Project Sign and Project Blue Book) and Jacques Vallee (Astronomer, Astrophysicist and Computer Scientist) exhaustively studied the UFO phenomenon and concluded that the craft and occupants were most likely inter-dimensional rather than inter-galactic.

In regard to them being of human origin, I find that difficult to believe.

While interactions with governments are likely and probably unavoidable, reverse engineering inevitable and cover-ups obvious, the entirety of the phenomenon must be taken into account. In western media there seems to be a deliberate blackout on UFO sighting reports even though the estimated yearly sightings is approaching 6 to 8,000 worldwide. In some areas of South America they appear almost as regular as clockwork. The sheer volume of activity, that seems to be increasing, would in my view preclude them being of human origin.

[Tuckeroo]

Hi searcher,

Definitely some interesting info in your link. I watched the Phoenix light’s doco’s again.
These day’s I take it for granted that there is always a cover-up by authorities in these matters…when is enough evidence not enough ?
Having said that, I understand why there are cover-ups and why the authorities want it all forgotten about as soon as possible.

I was aware when I was writing that post that there was a huge gap in my knowledge of current events in ufo research. In my post I
mentioned a 70 year time-line of collected information and imagery by researchers. This coincides with the second world war and the
development of technology which seems be the time our interaction with et’s was raised to a whole new level.
I think the military may have understood and secretly used advanced technology since this time. They could have developed it
themselves or appropriated it from et’s by, as your post suggests, reverse engineering alien craft which is probably the scenario.

I don’t believe et’s are related to humans and that they originated on this planet as my post has suggested. Sure they would transit
from somewhere else but with around 8000 sightings a year and increasing, makes you think they may exist here for long periods
of time. Maybe in another dimension as stated by Hynek and Allen in TP’S post.

In the Westall incident and like a few others at the time the witnesses describe the objects like they have arrived by accident,
flew around haphazardly, landed, taken off again as if they are momentarily disorientated from their flight paths or geographic intentions.
As opposed to the Ariel school incident were it seems like the et’s purposely landed and chose to reveal themselves to the students.

With no claim of visual identification of et’s on those W craft makes me think they were from the military because their behaviour on the
day is indicative of someone learning to fly and operate them. Maybe from those light planes that turned up as the objects landed in the
grange area.

The 3 foot insectivorous beings are the real deal and don’t need flying lessons.
I hope the 50 odd races all get on and don’t end up fighting amongst themselves with us in the middle of it all.

For someone that said he had lost interest in the ufo phenomenon and as this is my 3rd lengthy post in the et section of this site, I must
be warming up to a bit of serious ufo research.
Like to find out when the first tabloid news reports started appearing in the media ( 1930-40’s ? )

I’m still stuck on this 'friction in space' thingy.........


T.

[Searcher]

TrevorPeters wrote:

Probably the most serious UFO phenomenon researchers of the last century, Dr. J.Allen Hynek (Advisor to the US Air Force, Project Sign and Project Blue Book) and Jacques Vallee (Astronomer, Astrophysicist and Computer Scientist) exhaustively studied the UFO phenomenon and concluded that the craft and occupants were most likely inter-dimensional rather than inter-galactic.

G'day Trev,

Those hypothetical conclusions came from more than 30 years ago. Modern thinking is that ET travels across inter stellar space from nearby stars using advanced trans-dimensional physics. Star systems such as Zeta Ricticuli are 39.5 light years distant. Somehow a wormhole in the space-time continuum is created allowing a craft to literally disappear from this dimension and then suddenly re-appear at another point in space and time.

Some aliens are possibly millions of years ahead of us with their technology. They have become the masters of time and space. The cosmos is said to be 13.8 billion years old and our local star (the sun) is only around 4.5 billion years old. With a billion being a thousand million, a few million years each way is hardly noticeable. So this scenario becomes very real.

Astronomers say there are more stars in the heavens than grains of sand on every beach on Earth…and just about every star has planets… so it is easy to imagine there are myriads of alien races out there. And just like us, I bet they love to explore. It all makes sense… at least to me!

[Searcher]

Tuckeroo said:

I’m still stuck on this 'friction in space' thingy.........

Hi T.
Friction doesn’t exist. The reason for this is that UFOs can create a ‘bubble’ of magnetic energy around their craft. This overcomes all friction with the atmosphere and allows them to zip from a standstill to literally 1000’s of kph in an instant. It’s called super advanced technology!

[Tuckeroo]

UFOs can create a ‘bubble’ of magnetic energy around their craft..........



Hi Searcher

................jeez, you really know your stuff, this bubble effect is the kind of thing I was thinking about with regards to;
do space craft need to be aerodynamic in our earth based understanding of 'aerodynamic' ? .

T.

[Searcher]

Tuckeroo said:

do space craft need to be aerodynamic in our earth based understanding of 'aerodynamic' ? .

UFOs don’t need to be aerodynamically shaped to work in the atmosphere or in space. That’s because they can create that aforementioned 'magnetic bubble' and in space there is no air so there’s no drag or resistance at all. So any shape will work.

There has been a bewildering variety of UFO shapes and sizes reported. From huge craft at least a mile wide to small lights just inches in diameter. And just about all the shapes you can imagine. See in the chart below. There have been recent reports and good video of huge cylinder shaped craft. That's a very un-aerodynamic shape. Another indication of the ‘bubble’ is the lack of any sonic boon from these UFOs breaking the sound barrier. (around 760 mph) They have been seen and clocked on radar travelling many 1000s of mph with no reported noise. So they are definitely not travelling through the air the way our conventional jet aircraft do.

However... perhaps not all craft are powered this way. The crashed Roswell craft was said to have an advanced aerodynamic shape, was very stealthy and " we learnt a lot from it". So who really knows. Accurate information has been covered up in covert black projects by the Military/Industrial complex since at least 1947.

I’m a frequent sky watcher and have been rewarded with two sightings. The first was a ‘black box’ hovering over Melbourne CBD (not an aerodynamic shape at all!) and two orange disc shaped objects speeding at fighter jet pace over Dalby in Queensland.

[Dion]

I’m still stuck on this 'friction in space' thingy.........

Friction doesn’t exist. The reason for this is that UFOs can create a ‘bubble’ of magnetic energy around their craft. This overcomes all friction with the atmosphere and allows them to zip from a standstill to literally 1000’s of kph in an instant.

Agreed to a certain point in regards to a bubble of magnetic energy however I think they work in a different dimension.........so "friction" is then non existent.

[Searcher]

Dion wrote:

Agreed to a certain point in regards to a bubble of magnetic energy however I think they work in a different dimension.........so "friction" is then non existent.
Hi Dion,

Lots of room for speculation here. I certainly agree they have inter dimensional capabilities. UFOs have often been seen to be transparent before disappearing all together. They also seem to be able to ‘blink out’ at will and re-appear almost instantly in another place in the sky. Cloaking also appears to be another ability of these craft. Dimension hopping or using that amazing anti gravity magnetic drive…. love to think all will be revealed in the not too distant future. However, I won’t be holding my breath!

[Tuckeroo]

[quote="Searcher"]

...........is the lack of any sonic boom from these UFOs breaking the sound barrier.

Thanks searcher, know I get it............. and that speed is why we don't see a lot of them.

T.

[Yowie bait]

TrevorPeters wrote:

Probably the most serious UFO phenomenon researchers of the last century, Dr. J.Allen Hynek (Advisor to the US Air Force, Project Sign and Project Blue Book) and Jacques Vallee (Astronomer, Astrophysicist and Computer Scientist) exhaustively studied the UFO phenomenon and concluded that the craft and occupants were most likely inter-dimensional rather than inter-galactic.

G'day Trev,

Those hypothetical conclusions came from more than 30 years ago. Modern thinking is that ET travels across inter stellar space from nearby stars using advanced trans-dimensional physics. Star systems such as Zeta Ricticuli are 39.5 light years distant. Somehow a wormhole in the space-time continuum is created allowing a craft to literally disappear from this dimension and then suddenly re-appear at another point in space and time.

Some aliens are possibly millions of years ahead of us with their technology. They have become the masters of time and space. The cosmos is said to be 13.8 billion years old and our local star (the sun) is only around 4.5 billion years old. With a billion being a thousand million, a few million years each way is hardly noticeable. So this scenario becomes very real.

Astronomers say there are more stars in the heavens than grains of sand on every beach on Earth…and just about every star has planets… so it is easy to imagine there are myriads of alien races out there. And just like us, I bet they love to explore. It all makes sense… at least to me!

Seems to me you know a bit too much about this ufo stuff Searcher. How can we be sure you're not one of "them"?? ! Yb

[Searcher]

Yb wrote:

Seems to me you know a bit too much about this ufo stuff Searcher. How can we be sure you're not one of "them"?? ! Yb

Ha ha Yb... you don't!

Seriously though, I guess I would describe myself as a long time UFO buff who is also an astronomy enthusiast. Just love reading and learning about the universe we live in.

Also love to delve into the unknown, be it Yowies or other cryptozoology mysteries. Guess a lot on here would be similar.

[Yowie bait]

Good one Searcher. U r right . We dont know! Im a bit like Tuckeroo says as i havent kept up with latest ufo reports and theories so enjoying this thread. Last time i got excited over the ufos was when the mayan artifacts were coming out a few years ago with that doco that never got finished. So much confusion over that i didnt know what to think!? Yb

[Searcher]

Hey Yb,

As Mulder said to Scully... "THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE!"

[Yowie bait]

Yes the truth is out there somewhere. Ufo disclosure in our lifetime would be ace but not holding my breath. It's just plain silly to think we're the only beings in the universe. Yb

[TrevorPeters]

TrevorPeters wrote:

Probably the most serious UFO phenomenon researchers of the last century, Dr. J.Allen Hynek (Advisor to the US Air Force, Project Sign and Project Blue Book) and Jacques Vallee (Astronomer, Astrophysicist and Computer Scientist) exhaustively studied the UFO phenomenon and concluded that the craft and occupants were most likely inter-dimensional rather than inter-galactic.

G'day Trev,

Those hypothetical conclusions came from more than 30 years ago. Modern thinking is that ET travels across inter stellar space from nearby stars using advanced trans-dimensional physics. Star systems such as Zeta Ricticuli are 39.5 light years distant. Somehow a wormhole in the space-time continuum is created allowing a craft to literally disappear from this dimension and then suddenly re-appear at another point in space and time.

Some aliens are possibly millions of years ahead of us with their technology. They have become the masters of time and space. The cosmos is said to be 13.8 billion years old and our local star (the sun) is only around 4.5 billion years old. With a billion being a thousand million, a few million years each way is hardly noticeable. So this scenario becomes very real.

Astronomers say there are more stars in the heavens than grains of sand on every beach on Earth…and just about every star has planets… so it is easy to imagine there are myriads of alien races out there. And just like us, I bet they love to explore. It all makes sense… at least to me!

Hi Searcher, just getting back to this one from ages ago - I get sidetracked easily.

You said "modern thinking" as if somehow new evidence had come along to discredit the conclusions of these researchers. The Extraterrestrial Hypothesis (ETH) actually pre-dates the Inter-Dimensional Hypothesis (IDH) and Jacques Vallee was originally a staunch supporter of the ETH until he realised that it ignores too much data and became a supporter of the IDH.

There is usually a periodic recycling of scientific ideas that have remained hypothetical for too long and that is happening again. We are seeing a resurgence of the ETH and ideas like worm-hole travel and faster-than-light drives, etc. None of these ideas are new, just recycled again. I have yet to see any new discoveries within the field of physics or astronomy that show that worm-hole or FTL travel is possible. If evidence of energy transfer through worm-holes was recorded this would also in fact add weight to the IDH - it would not help decide between the two theories.

To be honest there has been an equally as great resurgence in ideas surrounding extra-dimensionality in physics as there has been in inter-galactic travel, possibly more. Everyone hopes that CERN will detect something revolutionary in terms of energy bleeding from one dimension to another, but still we wait.

I think Vallee was onto something when he started looking at the connections between UFOs, cults, religious movements, demons, angels, ghosts, cryptid sightings, and psychic phenomena.
His book Passport to Magonia is on my reading list since I have just found a pdf copy online to read. I have long suspected a link between the supernatural realm and the UFO phenomena. The cryptids link is relatively new to me but to my surprise fits right in with aspects of the other phenomena. Just to be clear, I don't think all the cryptid phenomena is supernatural, I think the situation is being exploited by these inter-dimensional beings.

I have a growing suspicion that the differences in phenomenon are changing to match human cultural changes. By that I mean that in ancient times when Gods and Godesses were a cultural norm as in Egypt, Sumeria, etc., the contact with inter-dimensional beings was interpreted as the visits of civilising deities because it was a culturally acceptable method of contact. In days of less scientific knowledge, when witchcraft and magic were at the forefront of society, contact with the inter-dimensional beings was accomplished through this medium. Now in the scientific age, people have no time for ancient Babylonian gods, demons, angels, faeries and the like, so enter the Extra-terrestrial Hypothesis (ETH) backed up by orbs, craft that leave traces on the ground but defy physics, "alien" visitations, abductions and contacts. The idea of a more advanced civilisation being responsible for these phenomena is more culturally acceptable to a wider number of people in the modern age.

When these things are examined, there are a multitude of similarities, just a different wrapper. It is my belief that only the IDH can provide a robust explanation that covers this great a time span and such a diverse range of contact methods spanning different cultural settings through-out history.

[Searcher]

Hi Trevor.
Thanks for your thoughtful post. I think we’re mostly on the same page as I don’t disagree with anything you say there. I wish I was as well read as you, but I’m probably ‘well watched’ instead. Sure, I like to keep up with the latest Yowie developments, but to be honest, my main area of interest has always been the UFO/ET scene. Perhaps because I think I understand it a bit better…!

My thoughts on the most likely scenario at the moment are these; Many ET races, around 57 if you believe a Disclosure Project witness, have been visiting the earth for millenniums.

On a new Stephen Hawking special the other night it was stated that scientists now estimate there are over 300 billion stars in the Milky Way. I remember when that number was ‘only’ 100 billion! It was also said there are an estimated 500 million rocky earth like planets in this galaxy. And that number grows to a staggering 400 quadrillion in the known universe!! Point I’m making is that the entire cosmos is all made of the same stuff distributed by the Big Bang. So I reckon there has to be intelligent life throughout the universe as there must be virtually countless habitable planets to support it.

My belief is that advanced alien races are travelling the universe through time and space using a form of physics that allows faster than light travel through other dimensions. So even inter-galactic travel is possible. As stated elsewhere, former Skunkworks CEO Ben Rich alluded to this and said we now know how it is done. There is also the free energy situation locked up in this technology as well. Read zero point energy here, but that’s another story. I have also been following the CERN experiments. Let’s hope they don’t create that mini black hole scientists are talking about!

The link between UFO’s and other phenomena is interesting. Skinwalker Ranch comes to mind. I used to think the link was tenuous, but now my mind is more open. I believe ghosts exist (or vibrate) in another dimension and can sometimes cross into ours. Cryptids…well, I was firmly in the F&B camp because it was logical and appealed to my common sense. However, I now acknowledge the jury is waiting for some positive evidence from either side. Would be nice if it happens soon. Go Rusty!