New member seeking "top 5" lists

[inthedark]

So then I think it comes down to.... do you believe this to be a real phenomenon and if so do you think we are dealing with mass Hallucinations, a real Flesh and Blood creature, or a spiritual force of some description?

For me, it's not good enough to simply choose to believe. Belief is not required when evidence is clear, so in the absence of evidence 'belief' is the equivalent of 'faith' - faith being belief in the absence of evidence. Such approaches belong in the realm of religion and superstition, not science. I would prefer to 'know', via empirical, scientifically verifiable evidence.

In the meantime, I do think it's a real phenomenon. There is simply no way that so many ordinary people could be such great actors. Even great actors aren't that great. So for me, it comes down to 'what are they really seeing?'. To answer that, I stay out of America. America has bears, and plenty of BF believers and hoaxers. Australia has neither bears, nor large numbers of believers and hoaxers, so we're talking about something else.

Obviously, some are going to be hoaxes (monkey suits). Probably a good proportion of 'sightings' are down to just a single hoaxer operating in a given area, over a period of time. Then there are those encounters which have transpired in very remote locations, off all roads etc. Highly unlikely to be hoaxes, so potentially just people telling tall stories? I should add here, that I don't credit any kind of 'evidence' which doesn't involve actual full body sightings. Footprints, vocalisations, etc, can all be faked or misinterpreted.

[inthedark]

Meant to add that I also generally dismiss any encounters/activity occurring in small patches of isolated forest. By that I mean, isolated from wide, dense corridors leading to much larger forests, and by small I mean less than about 10,000 acres.

Have seen too many encounter reports alleged to have happened in such locations, and to me they're just not credible. Large mammals - especially mammals which can escape detection - need huge areas of wilderness to maintain a viable population. Islands of forest surrounded by open fields, or dotted around outer suburban areas, are just not going to cut it. When you start seeing 'sign' in such locations, I suspect wishful thinking is along for the ride.

If I'm not familiar with the location of an encounter, I immediately Google Earth it, to check for the above.

[Tuckeroo]

Hi ITD,
I’m interested in the way you have analysed this enigma; a few new ideas in the critical eye that I have not heard before.
I understand your reasons for doubting the American BF video content; bears etc. and a much larger population of people
just produces more theatrics.

I originally came to the Yowie phenomena via my interest in Australian colonial history, so I see the BF scene in the states
as a separate thing. I get less clarity when I start to compare Yowies to the BF world because there is just as many
differences as similarities.
I suppose I’m biased but I’m glad we have the Yowie and the indigenous connection, the different names and the unique
Australian bush.
Australia has less video’s of Yowies to analyse then it seems with BF but unfortunately just as blurry. The videos that are
interesting are the witness reports; there’s not many of them, someone just sitting looking at the camera or the many
audio reports at AYR.

There has been thorough analysis of blurry videos so I was wondering how these well honed
critical tools for video would apply to audio.


T.

[inthedark]

Hi ITD,
I’m interested in the way you have analysed this enigma; a few new ideas in the critical eye that I have not heard before.
I understand your reasons for doubting the American BF video content; bears etc. and a much larger population of people
just produces more theatrics.

I originally came to the Yowie phenomena via my interest in Australian colonial history, so I see the BF scene in the states
as a separate thing. I get less clarity when I start to compare Yowies to the BF world because there is just as many
differences as similarities.
I suppose I’m biased but I’m glad we have the Yowie and the indigenous connection, the different names and the unique
Australian bush.
Australia has less video’s of Yowies to analyse then it seems with BF but unfortunately just as blurry. The videos that are
interesting are the witness reports; there’s not many of them, someone just sitting looking at the camera or the many
audio reports at AYR.

There has been thorough analysis of blurry videos so I was wondering how these well honed
critical tools for video would apply to audio.


T.

Hi Tuckeroo

I probably should have clarified regarding America. I do view the American encounters, but I tend to be harder on them than on the Australian ones. For the reasons given.

I do agree that the Australian situation is, to my mind, more likely to produce something solid. We simply have better conditions.

Regarding audio .. I'm not a fan. I've not yet heard anything that couldn't be either faked, or wasn't fox, canine (dog or dingo), koala, possum, or lyre bird.

[Wolf]

Dismissing reports because they are close to human habitation is IMO a mistake.

These animals are nocturnal and masters at staying hidden. I know for a fact that I could stay hidden from humans in a ghillie suit right on the edges of towns and cities for as long as I wanted, if I had the benefit of half-decent natural night vision, was not concerned about getting my clothing (ghillie suit and boots) wet and had the strength these animals have... and I am nowhere near as trained for evasion as these animals naturally are.

There are plenty of witness reports from the fringes of towns and even cities. Remember they use waterways a lot as natural highways, which keeps them hidden due to being the lowest points in the environment and most often having heavily treed banks.

As to the topic of this thread, 'Big Red' is one of my favourite videos. I will link it when I am back on my desktop computer.

[inthedark]

Dismissing reports because they are close to human habitation is IMO a mistake.

These animals are nocturnal and masters at staying hidden. I know for a fact that I could stay hidden from humans in a ghillie suit right on the edges of towns and cities for as long as I wanted, if I had the benefit of half-decent natural night vision, was not concerned about getting my clothing (ghillie suit and boots) wet and had the strength these animals have... and I am nowhere near as trained for evasion as these animals naturally are.

There are plenty of witness reports from the fringes of towns and even cities. Remember they use waterways a lot as natural highways, which keeps them hidden due to being the lowest points in the environment and most often having heavily treed banks.

As to the topic of this thread, 'Big Red' is one of my favourite videos. I will link it when I am back on my desktop computer.

Hi Wolf

I appreciate what you're saying. After all, we know that Roos, Wallabies, Dingo, wombat etc are seen on the fringes of large forests. Roos are sometimes also seen in isolated urban fringe green belts etc. The problem is that we're talking about relatively small (by comparison) animals. Eastern Greys don't reach huge sizes, for example. I guess it just strikes me as unlikely that an animal which is broad, hairy, and 8' tall, is going to pass unobserved in fringe areas. Even if such a critter did on occasions find themselves in an urban or farmland fringe, I suspect it would a very rare thing.

Having said all that, I do also get what you're saying about how easy it is to go stealth in a forest - even one regularly visited. In fact, I like the idea of an experiment to test this theory. Put a group of 3 - 5 humans in ghillie suits in a forest frequented by walkers, campers, mountain bikers, etc. Have them basically 'live' there in small camo tents and using minimum 'fire' (no smoke) for cooking etc. Each required to travel out from base for roughly a km each day (or night). See how long they can remain undetected. Could be quite a revealing exercise!

[inthedark]

Meant to add that I've had a good look at "Big Red", and it totally looks like a bear to me. I even see a clear bear ear (which in the vid is referred to as the cranial peak).

[Wolf]

Meant to add that I've had a good look at "Big Red", and it totally looks like a bear to me. I even see a clear bear ear (which in the vid is referred to as the cranial peak).

Perhaps we are looking at different vids here. The Big Red I am thinking of is barely seen (no pun intended) through a stand of pine trees from a river bank? It is massive. You can hear children talking in the background?

I am in the process of working on a video evidence page for my site and will be posting it so will include a link here when I find it again.

[inthedark]

Perhaps we are looking at different vids here. The Big Red I am thinking of is barely seen (no pun intended) through a stand of pine trees from a river bank? It is massive. You can hear children talking in the background?

I am in the process of working on a video evidence page for my site and will be posting it so will include a link here when I find it again.

Definitely not the same Big Red! The one I'm talking about was primarily a head, seen from the side/rear. Look forward to seeing the one you mention!

[Ray Doherty]

For me, based on my encounters, this video from Florida looks pretty real to me
and compares very very well for me to what I have witnessed. In saying that
if its a hoax, only the film maker and god know for sure

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8R8MQnuWS7Y

[inthedark]

For me, based on my encounters, this video from Florida looks pretty real to me
and compares very very well for me to what I have witnessed. In saying that
if its a hoax, only the film maker and god know for sure

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8R8MQnuWS7Y

I enjoyed that one, thanks Ray!

Unfortunately, for me it's simply footage of a lowland gorilla (or chimp .. both known to seek food in swamps) in some sort of reserve or open zoo. There's very little likelihood that a super shy, nocturnal (according to the experts), I-can-smell-a-game-cam-at-500-metres, cryptocreature would be complacently sitting in the open in broad daylight, while a human films them. Shame though, because it's great footage

[inthedark]

Just wanted to add that I've revisited the Russian Jumping Almasty, and have decided to include it as a second 'potential' with my single candidate (Pennsylvania White). There is much about it which defies the usual 'hoax' element. I was uncertain initially due to the behaviour of the man and boy, but on consideration of the cultural aspect - that is, Russians aren't scared of much, it rings a little truer.

[Simon M]

The 'skunk ape' footage is interesting, but I'd agree that it's video of a conventional great ape in some sort of open range zoo. The cameraman is VERY noisy and keeps whispering "what the hell" and so on. If this was video of the creature we've all heard and read so many eyewitness accounts of there's no way it would've been unaware of the cameraman's presence.

The animal in that video was very clearly preoccupied with what it was doing and didn't seem to be aware that it was being watched. The guy also 'runs' just when he's about to get the money-shot (so to speak), and it all seemed a bit contrived to me.

The 'Russian jumping Yeti' video also seems staged in my opinion. Again, I reckon it's an ape of some variety (a Gibbon?) they've let out for a run in the wilderness. The guys in the video not only don't seem scared they don't even seem surprised, which confuses me. It's not like they've seen anything unexpected at all.

I'd really like the Patterson/Gimlin film to be real, but even that isn't unfakeable in my opinion. I've still never seen a clear enough view of one of these things in all the videos that have been put online over the years. I need to see a face, to see an expressive, living face. We always see the back of them, or the side, etc. A face would be really hard to fake, unless you're a Hollywood movie studio, and if I saw video of a face that looked lifelike, I might be convinced. Maybe.

[inthedark]

The 'skunk ape' footage is interesting, but I'd agree that it's video of a conventional great ape in some sort of open range zoo. The cameraman is VERY noisy and keeps whispering "what the hell" and so on. If this was video of the creature we've all heard and read so many eyewitness accounts of there's no way it would've been unaware of the cameraman's presence.

The animal in that video was very clearly preoccupied with what it was doing and didn't seem to be aware that it was being watched. The guy also 'runs' just when he's about to get the money-shot (so to speak), and it all seemed a bit contrived to me.

The 'Russian jumping Yeti' video also seems staged in my opinion. Again, I reckon it's an ape of some variety (a Gibbon?) they've let out for a run in the wilderness. The guys in the video not only don't seem scared they don't even seem surprised, which confuses me. It's not like they've seen anything unexpected at all.

I'd really like the Patterson/Gimlin film to be real, but even that isn't unfakeable in my opinion. I've still never seen a clear enough view of one of these things in all the videos that have been put online over the years. I need to see a face, to see an expressive, living face. We always see the back of them, or the side, etc. A face would be really hard to fake, unless you're a Hollywood movie studio, and if I saw video of a face that looked lifelike, I might be convinced. Maybe.

Agree on all points. Except perhaps the Russian one. I've spent a fair bit of time around Gibbons, and they are considerably smaller than this creature. It was easily the size of a Silverback, if not taller. Legs were too long for a Gorilla, however. As for the human element in that one, it is problematic. But only in the context of the way we (in the west) view wildlife. Russians are a breed apart, in that regard.

I really hate the PGF. It's thrown the whole thing off course, IMO.

Meantime, check out my thread on the general board. Have seen something interesting on Google Earth. Would love opinions.

[themanfromglad]

Top 9 Authentic Bigfoot Videos
Alberta Sasquatch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuzoKHZqwdo
Patterson Gimlin Film
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKUwdHex1Zs
Russian Yeti
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHkFCFnc7J4
Russian galloping Yeti
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WaV4Vygt3M
Freeman Film
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luue2Mv_VNM
Adrian Erickson video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MIo6KmdtPM
Lettuce Lake Skunk Ape
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uFG0MR-q58
Skunk Ape Ripping Apart Tree Trunk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb9YcIlkl_c
TimberGiant Bigfoot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mh-KBrOoUsc

[themanfromglad]

Ten
Great North Imax Bigfoot with Baby on back
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3obq0Q6OU3Y

[inthedark]

Ten
Great North Imax Bigfoot with Baby on back
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3obq0Q6OU3Y

Thanks, but yeah, that's a crew member with a backpack. Pretty clear, once you have a close look at it

[inthedark]

Top 9 Authentic Bigfoot Videos
Alberta Sasquatch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuzoKHZqwdo
Patterson Gimlin Film
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKUwdHex1Zs
Russian Yeti
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHkFCFnc7J4
Russian galloping Yeti
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WaV4Vygt3M
Freeman Film
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luue2Mv_VNM
Adrian Erickson video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MIo6KmdtPM
Lettuce Lake Skunk Ape
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uFG0MR-q58
Skunk Ape Ripping Apart Tree Trunk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb9YcIlkl_c
TimberGiant Bigfoot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mh-KBrOoUsc

Thanks for these

I only like the 'Russian Galloping Yeti', of those. The first one - Alberta - could be a contender, but the fact that no one went to check tracks given the snow etc, makes me think it might be a fake. The rest of them are all dodgy, IMO. The other one I like isn't in your list. The Pennsylvania White.

[inthedark]

Meant to add that the TimberGiant one (Big Red?), is so obviously a bear that I'm surprised people still take it seriously.

[themanfromglad]

There aren't any reddish brown bears in North America.

[Yowie bait]

There aren't any reddish brown bears in North America.

Well not a bear then. Ill probably cop it for this but i find big red very interesting simply because of the tiny glimpse of the rough skin on the face and flattish sloped face. I know its hard ti tell anything from the video but i wouldnt totally discount it

[inthedark]

There aren't any reddish brown bears in North America.

Cinnamon Phase black bear.

[inthedark]

There aren't any reddish brown bears in North America.

Well not a bear then. Ill probably cop it for this but i find big red very interesting simply because of the tiny glimpse of the rough skin on the face and flattish sloped face. I know its hard ti tell anything from the video but i wouldnt totally discount it

Fair enough. I just see ear, where others see 'saggital crest'. And I see snout, where others see 'baby on face'. The ear is the dead giveaway, though. The darker rim is even apparent.

I really can't understand this one at all - or rather, can't understand its popularity.

[Yowie bait]

There aren't any reddish brown bears in North America.

Cinnamon Phase black bear.

Yes apparently 'black" bears come in all shades so doesnt rule out a bear.

[inthedark]

Yes apparently 'black" bears come in all shades so doesnt rule out a bear.

Applying Occam's Razor, Cinnamon Phase black bear is about 99.99% likely. I suspect the uploader knew what it was, but was able to film it in a way which made it somewhat uncertain. Still, the sheer beariness is obvious, to anyone not inclined to a specific preferred conclusion. None of these partial images will ever suffice, from a nation crawling with large, hairy, red/brown mammals. Mammals which sometimes stand upright, throw things, and climb trees.

I guess that's why my two favourite pieces of footage both clearly show the full body of a very distinctly not-bear creature. Or more likely, two really good monkey suits worn by two very athletic tall blokes!.

[Yowie bait]

Yes apparently 'black" bears come in all shades so doesnt rule out a bear.

Applying Occam's Razor, Cinnamon Phase black bear is about 99.99% likely. I suspect the uploader knew what it was, but was able to film it in a way which made it somewhat uncertain. Still, the sheer beariness is obvious, to anyone not inclined to a specific preferred conclusion. None of these partial images will ever suffice, from a nation crawling with large, hairy, red/brown mammals. Mammals which sometimes stand upright, throw things, and climb trees.

I guess that's why my two favourite pieces of footage both clearly show the full body of a very distinctly not-bear creature. Or more likely, two really good monkey suits worn by two very athletic tall blokes!.

I dont think the timbergiantbigfoot guy is trying to hoax anyone with his videos. He has captured a few things but that one gets a lot of attention.

[inthedark]

I dont think the timbergiantbigfoot guy is trying to hoax anyone with his videos. He has captured a few things but that one gets a lot of attention.

He may not be. I don't think all of these people are looking to hoax. It could simply be that he wasn't sure what it was himself, and filmed in hope. And without conclusive evidence that it's NOT a bear, it can be left 'open'. It's fairly human to be seduced into leaving an uncertainty, uncertain - especially if it's as popular as it appears to be. That just makes him human, not hoaxer

[Simon M]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zo6_K6DHwlA

That one features some interesting footage and analysis. It may have been posted here before, but not to my knowledge, so I thought I'd post it. Well worth a look.

[Simon M]

This gave me a new respect for Davis' work, which I'd previously not been impressed with. Gymlan's narration is insightful and informative.

[Yowie bait]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zo6_K6DHwlA

That one features some interesting footage and analysis. It may have been posted here before, but not to my knowledge, so I thought I'd post it. Well worth a look.

That's a good link Simon. "Junk man" is very convincing and similar to the "fence jumper" video but more convincing than the fence jumper. Imo of course.