Bigfoot Bullsh*tters... deserving of anger or pity?

[Wolf]

Had an interesting conversation recently debating the reality of bigfoot/yowie with a 'semi-believer'.

I was mentioning the sheer numbers of reports is alone indicative that they are real. Surely they cannot all be making their stories up and/or misidentification.
Said 'semi-believer' also believes yes, some are potentially real encounters, but the majority are lies made up by people seeking attention... and then expressed intense frustration at the 'noise pollution' such people cause (with uncharacteristic venom towards them).

I must say I can relate to this person's frustration but not the intense level of their anger towards the BS artists.
Rather, I feel pity towards someone who needs attention so bad they feel the need to make up lies and stories to get it. Yes, there is some anger there, but more sadness than hatred.

As Scarts has said in another thread; "...every sighting always tend to be - Anecdotal." ... which necessarily means that until one has experienced an encounter personally, one is forced to 'take peoples' word for it'.

Despite having grown up in the bush, living on property, camping and hiking through remote areas over countless weekends with parents who were both very experienced 'bushies' (father old-school bushie who spent his life working and living in the bush after leaving school very young, and mother a bird watcher, field naturalist and avid hiker and camper) neither they nor I have never experienced anything 'out of the ordinary' that cannot be easily explained 'naturally'.

Even though my dear old Dad (when he was still alive) was fairly open-minded, with regards to Yowie tales he would always respond with the same answer he would have for ghosts and the paranormal... "Bullsh*t!" (although well-read, self-educated and very intelligent he was a man of very few words )

There was only two types of people he would not put up with, stupid people and BS artists. He had more time for the former because he saw it as not altogether their fault, but he had no time at all for the latter.

The point of this post: Should BS artists be hated for the noise pollution they cause on an already very sensitive subject, or should they be pitied for their desperate need for attention ?

[Yowie bait]

I understand your frustration Wolf. Yes there are delusional people who make up stories of encounters with bigfoot, aliens etc to get attention, make money or get YouTube hits etc.

If they had actually had an encounter of some type then they would realise that maybe its not so cool to claim to have seen these things in the "real world " and not the sort of attention they would want to bring upon themselves. In fact they may find themselves labeled a freak or a bold face liar even and deservedely so.

Unfortunately some of these people do well quite well for themselves as there is an avenue for these things with the internet these days and people clamouring for reports and new infomation, photos etc

Were all guilty of watching these types on youtube in our ongoing quest for information. I know i am!


This has a negative impact on the real witnesses and others who dedicate a lot of time and money on their research for genuine reasons.

Yes Scarts is right to call encounters anecdotal evidence. Its not anecdotal to the witness though and anyone who trusts their words. What they see are facts. The colour, size, eyes or whatever they saw is a fact for them and also that it truly exists. Anything after that is speculation on their part just like everyone else interested in the subject.

If witnesses are posting on the forum to report their sightings then they need to be aware that it could be percieved as attention seeking by some and possibly make their experience less credible.

Personally i like to read their accounts and not all sightings are going to make it to the AYR audio so bring it on i say!

I dont know if we should hate or pity the fraudsters. I definitely dont pity these bigfooters who talk or whisper into the camera for ten minutes before showing a five second clip of fuzzy video with nothing on it!

Its not all bad though. Even something as inane and formulated as' finding bigfoot' may get someone to change their perspective and start talking or thinking about the subject...once they start laughing of course... !!

[Yowie bait]

i meant "stop laughing ".

[Scarts]

The Bigfoot mystery which is the yowie mystery, is the greatest planetary mystery of the 19th, 20th, and now 21st centuries.

Some people feel the need to join in on the mystery by making up a story with their name attached to it. In my experience, such people will often push the story too far by including a piece of evidence they believe won't be easily dismissed. It's usually their piece of evidence which brings their story unstuck. They are people out to knowingly deceive, who I'm talking about.

These people are deserving of anger because they waste people's time - time better spent on a report by someone who at least isn't bullshitting.

[adventurer]

BS artists should be hated, not pitied. It is hard enough for us to explain what we see and hear, when idiots are out there scamming. I dont care if they have issues being needed or heard--they are a waste of space to me.
We would all get further with understanding the hairy ones behaviour without all the false words/ videos out there, and unfortunately we dont know whats real or not.
If found false they need to be banned from such sites.
Some of us go out with many people so with that it is easier when others can confirm what happened( i dont think a bunch of people would lie.
I believe what goes around comes around so if they BS about yowies, hopefully they will really bush walk one day and come across some nasty ones and get dragged in the bush and be tormented. Then the boy cries wolf scenario will happen. Good luck to them. Dee

[gregvalentine]

BS artists should be hated, not pitied. It is hard enough for us to explain what we see and hear, when idiots are out there scamming. I dont care if they have issues being needed or heard--they are a waste of space to me.
We would all get further with understanding the hairy ones behaviour without all the false words/ videos out there, and unfortunately we dont know whats real or not.
If found false they need to be banned from such sites.
Some of us go out with many people so with that it is easier when others can confirm what happened( i dont think a bunch of people would lie.
I believe what goes around comes around so if they BS about yowies, hopefully they will really bush walk one day and come across some nasty ones and get dragged in the bush and be tormented. Then the boy cries wolf scenario will happen. Good luck to them. Dee

What if they are of the sub-category that truly believe their own BS even if it is clearly BS to most others?

[Wolf]

...

These people are deserving of anger because they waste people's time - time better spent on a report by someone who at least isn't bullshitting.

Can't argue with that aspect.

I used to get angry at BFBS artists too, but then I thought about it... how desperate must someone be for attention? And I got very sad for them...

[Wolf]

I believe what goes around comes around so if they BS about yowies, hopefully they will really bush walk one day and come across some nasty ones and get dragged in the bush and be tormented. Then the boy cries wolf scenario will happen. Good luck to them. Dee

[Scarts]

That sub group, Greg valentine, is an integral part of the yowie mystery. Those people aren't willingly or knowingly trying to deceive, they truly believe their own bullshit.

Some of these people are susceptible to, and fall prey to being psychologically primed and legend tripping, or could be experiencing the hallucinatory effects of illegal drugs or prescription medication or alcohol, have a mental illness, or be on the low end of the autism spectrum and prone to entering liminal states of consciousness and disassociation.

No anger or pity for these true believers!

[Wolf]

... What if they are of the sub-category that truly believe their own BS even if it is clearly BS to most others?

The sub-category that wish SOOOooooo hard for an encounter they see and hear Bigfoot everywhere in stumps, shadows and horny male koalas? ... man koalas let out a hell of a din for their size. And they sound not only monstrous but ferocious too. I remember tourists walking along the same track as my wife and I while one was going off right next to the track ... they were really freaked out. It was really quite funny, they thought some kind of strange aussie bush monster was roaring at them

If we hadn't been there to tell them what it was, and if they had recently heard of the Aussie Yowie, we might have gotten a report then and there of the tourists running screaming from the bush

[Wolf]

That sub group, Greg valentine, is an integral part of the yowie mystery. Those people aren't willingly or knowingly trying to deceive, they truly believe their own bullshit.

Some of these people are susceptible to, and fall prey to being psychologically primed and legend tripping, or could be experiencing the hallucinatory effects of illegal drugs or prescription medication or alcohol, have a mental illness, or be on the low end of the autism spectrum and prone to entering liminal states of consciousness and disassociation.

No anger or pity for these true believers!

Hear hear!

The mind is an incredible thing. It is relatively easy to convince someone they are seeing something they are not (magicians rely on this of course)... and for some, perhaps easier to convince themselves they are seeing something they are not.

A personal example... in my late teens I was with my girlfriend of the time at a popular picnic spot late at night.
Literally called Picnic Point, on the edge of the Toowoomba range. The scene of one of AYR's reports. For those who don't know the town, Toowoomba (Origine for The Swamp) has some pretty spooky, dark parks with huge old trees and Picnic Point Park on a moonless night is a good example.

Now I grew up in the bush and was very familiar with the night and was often walking the parks in town at night after going out to the pubs, but something made me suddenly very cautious of the especially dark area under the huge old pines where the slippery dip was.
I felt like something was watching us as we leant against the car and talked.
There was no underbrush and enough light to see there was nobody peeking around one of the trees. The feeling grew. It was like the darkness under the trees grew slightly darker, almost like the area was filling with an imperceptible mist. It felt kind of evil and the hair stood up on my neck and every sense came instantly alive.

My girlfriend was chatting away, when I suddenly felt the urge to confront whatever it was I could not see so I stood up and walked directly towards where I felt the 'evil' was coming from. Within steps it felt like something was screaming in evil rage at me to stop but I continued into the trees to look around.
I knew if anything physical was there watching me it would move around whatever tree it was hiding behind and my girlfriend would then see them, or it.
There was nothing there, but as soon as passed the first trunks the air 'thickened', tears came to corners of my eyes like when you are riding a bike down a steep hill, and it felt like the air itself was pushing me, trying to stop my advance. I gritted my teeth and kept walking.
Within three or four steps the resistance suddenly stopped.
It was like whatever was there had realised I was not scared of it so accepted my presence. I felt whatever was there was not even looking at me anymore, then I realised my girlfriend was calling out (and freaking out a bit). I thought the presence had directed its attention to her, but when I answered her it came back to me again, but without the intense anger and hatred I had felt before, more a curiosity, but still dark and forboding.

I hung around for a bit but felt nothing more so turned to leave.
As soon as I turned my back I felt a cold 'wall' of air pushing against my back, all the way back to the car.

The incident remained on my mind for months and years after I would remember it often, wondering if someone had died there. There was a massacre of the local tribe in the immediate area, perhaps on that very spot as it would have made an ideal camping spot back then and was right on the trail from the coast to the Bunya Feast in the Bunya Mountains.

However, the much more likely scenario is I freaked myself out.
Steven King had been one of my favourite authors since I first read 'Christine' at about 11 or 12 years old.
Even though it felt very real at the time, I am today 90% convinced it was all just my overactive imagination.

[wellymon]

Hi Wolf,

Could you please explain, who are these Bullshit people, so maybe we/I could all be aware of them.
That guy JHYowie sounds a little weird.

I would not know, as I never look at other sites/youtube regarding the Yowie, other than here !

Thanks

[Wolf]

Hi Wolf,

Could you please explain, who are these Bullshit people, so maybe we/I could all be aware of them.
That guy JHYowie sounds a little weird.

I would not know, as I never look at other sites/youtube regarding the Yowie, other than here !

Thanks

Wellyman, this discussion is not to call out anyone I personally suspect (who am I to judge), merely discussing the issue of said arteests of manure.

If anyone reading this thread is such an artist, they know who they are.

[adventurer]

Sub category, i have to agree with scarts. " Those people aren't willingly or knowingly trying to deceive, they truly believe their own bullshit. Really like anxiety disorder. I wouldnt hate them for it.
Dislike the ones that really mean to BS.

WOLF- I know you dont want to name names but would be nice-i hope you dont think its me BS, if so thats ok, anyone is welcome out anytime.
I dont think it was your imagination at picnic point, just because you didnt see it doesnt mean it wasnt there, whatever it was. I do understand what you mean, if you were locked up in a remote house dark room on your own, your imagination can turn wild (ghosts). But you were simply walking along as you have done so before when this happened. We all have to listen to our instincts and our body change. Maybe you should walk through there again and see if theres a change? Dee

[Wolf]

Dee, I went to the same spot countless times over the following years and only ever 'felt' something if I thought about it and 'allowed' my imagination to recreate it.

While open to the possibility I did encounter something out of the ordinary, I am pretty much convinced it was my own fanciful imagination at work. I felt something similar once when whippersnipping around the old hospital buildings of the Quarantine Station on Sydney's North Head (a 'famous' ghost hotspot). It felt like something was watching me through the windows then as well, but once again, my imagination is too strong for my own good some times. It didn't help the other Parks and Wildlife workers telling me of seeing ghosts, walking into a room then coming back seconds later to see all the beds piled up, arriving at work at 7am to find Ray, one of the workers who lived in one of the buildings, sleeping at the door because the ghosts had run him out of his home, etc, etc.

I took heaps of photos the day I left of the old buildings only to see my picture of the morgue room with what looked like blood splatters on the walls on the developed photo, yet for the life of me could not remember seeing any such thing on the walls when I took the photo? (I might start a new thread in the paranormal area for these stories as here is not the place)

My point is, the human imagination is exceptionally powerful so when someone honestly thinks they truly saw something, who am I to judge whether it was real or not? That's the problem with (as Scarts says) anecdotal evidence. And why I would never call someone out whom I suspect of being a BFBS artist (unless it is glaringly obvious like our infamous Jason H).

I do understand the anger at such artists for they 'muddy the waters' AND make genuine researchers look like BullSh*tters as well purely by association.

In my experience truth is an irresistible force and will ALWAYS find a way out past the lies. It may take years (like the media lies about Syria or Ukraine) or even decades (like WWII revisionism), but it will eventually come out.

[adventurer]

WOLF--Okay, so then with your feelings and beliefs on imagination, i guess you would only look at hard evidence on the yowie, footprints,hair and body parts or of course seeing it. Do u just keep in back of your mind then about the smell, rock stacks, stick structures, flattened grass, eaten trees etc or do u discard all this as it can be anything. Has anyone actually seen a yowie build such things or seen/photographed them eating trees, making beds,building rock stacks etc..? Dee

[Wolf]

I stay open to all possibilities as much as reasonable... yes, even a UFO connection and/or 'portals' (although I would have to say this is highly unlikely).

How can I claim to know what is truth and what is not? I have only my intellect, situational awareness and instinct to guide me, as do we all.

This world is an amazing place and truth is often stranger than fiction. For all I know Sasquatch in all its types and forms are the true humanoids of this planet and it is we who are the aliens, genetically engineered from them by aliens to mine the gold.

One thing I know is that history is always written by the winners and past knowledge (being power) is intentionally treasured and withheld by those that would rule in order to manipulate the masses so that rule may be maintained.

I may appear to be a cynical 'realist' to some but those who know me know I have a LOT of faith in the creative power of the human mind. I have experienced enough of this power to know it is real ('creating' vehicles, homes, jobs and even my wife using 'mind power')

In saying that, even if I were to watch absolutely convincing footage captured by a researcher I would study it and attempt to 'disprove' it by playing devil's advocate. Unless I witnessed something myself directly I would never, could never, believe it 100%... and even then I know enough of the human mind to be wary.

BTW, I have posted my 'ghost theory', garnered from my own experiences in the 'ghost and orb' part of this forum if anyone is interested.

[Wolf]

BTW, I HAVE filmed trees being eaten... by black cockatoos not Yowies

[adventurer]

In saying that, even if I were to watch absolutely convincing footage captured by a researcher I would study it and attempt to 'disprove' it by playing devil's advocate. Unless I witnessed something myself directly I would never, could never, believe it 100%... and even then I know enough of the human mind to be wary.

Wow thats tough.
I have watched people drive cars with mind power(with no fuel ) i know people cure themselves with diseases with mind power. I think those tune in better then most, the mind is powerful. But i wouldnt dismiss our natural senses telling us when somethings wrong or somethings watching us.
Very interesting.
Will be reading the ghost theories.
I am one that doesnt need to see to believe--but thats me. I do watch for skepticism too.Dee

[Dean Harrison]

Obviously in my travels I have become aquatinted with many different people from all over. All manner of egos and personalities, some of which have come and gone from this Forum over the past 20 years and some I have met.

98% of –pretty much everyone- have been terrific. Lovely people.

There have also been others who came and gone with extremely dubious and duplicitous natures that left a short lasting stain.

On the bad side, I’ve had the insanely optimistic, the rudely sceptical with ulterior motives, the destructive, the total peanuts and the drug induced.

Again, this is the minority. Very few.

In America there are some utter disgraces. And repeat offenders. And it’s gone on for years.

Not so much here. Yes we have someone who is now notorious to us who Posts Online bogus rubbish. Even a glove coming from behind a tree, claiming to be a Yowie. Ho hum.

We’ve had Tim Bull, aka Tim the Yowie Man, who now steers away from his initial claims – we all knew that back in the 90’s anyway – that was a no brainer. Steve Piper who now claims he was bashed and has no recollection of the ridiculous film he took south of Canberra all those years ago – we all called him out on that at the time. Tim was also involved in this footage.

Brett Green who clearly has mental issues he needs to address. I could write a book about his book. The Mystro of fabrication.

Crazy Phil who was on our team for 18 months that caused all manner of problems. Everything was a Yowie. We set him up one night in Springbrook and listened to his radio feeds to the group while they were out scouting. Problem for poor Phil was I was sitting not far away watching and feeding through the real Situ on a different channel. It was all rubbish. Jumping at shadows.

Months later in the Pilliga, we had to run 2 – 3kms through the forest to save Phil. It turned out to be a Possum. This became all too frequent and he had to go.

Then we have the two angry twins who we had the misfortune of meeting in the field. They had issues from hour 1. One was apparently the messenger from God, so it turns out. That was the night I was hit. He put on a spooky voice in the middle of the night and stated he would destroy me if I disclosed it. He claimed HE was the Yowie and could be at all places at once. He had angels arrive in his room each night telling him he is the “Truth Seeker” etc…… That was a charming experience and a situation that we’ll never forget. These guys gained emails and phone numbers of people on the Forum by first befriending them, and then harassed them to the point where people changed their numbers, email addresses and names on this Forum. It was a really sad period for all. A lesson learnt. Careful who you allow to come out with you.

But also in closing, we have the other side of the coin. The mindless accusers: We have the low level gutter dwelling skeptic internet troll who sprays pretty much everything we/I do here is bogus. All witnesses are either liars or mistaken. No need to mention this twits name. At one stage he was on the Bigfoot Forum claiming I was caught out faking footprints. When confronted for facts, he did exactly what rats and cockroaches do….. scurries away into the darkness and hides.. He was asked WHO caught me, what was the Situ, was it a group of people walking around a corner or someone spying from beyond? Nothing….. He hides. When asked on anything regarding the accusations, he ducks.

He then goes on another mindless rant claiming I do this for money. I make money from our Website? It's cost me tens of thousands. When challenged – considering we have had no advertising and sold nothing for 20 years, what does he do? Scurries away like a cockroach in to the night. No credibility, debunked and grasping straws, only to crawl back trying to debunk others – no moral compass. Nothing positive to offer. Attention seeker.

Fraudulent people making fraudulent claims come from both sides of the fence according to their own agenda.

That’s just a few of my own experiences. No doubt I have many more.

This is a great Forum. I am extremely of our Website and what we contribute. I think right now we have a decent group of contributors on the this Forum. In general, I think we do ok compared to other places. We have a few bad apples sure, but nothing to worry about just yet.



DMH

[Searcher]

Well said, Dean. You have provided great insight into this controversial topic.

As stated at the end “This Forum is great”. That gets the big tick from me and I reckon 99% of our other contributors.

[Dean Harrison]

Thank you so much Searcher.

Many diverse personalities and opinions over many years. THIS, I believe, is the best group thus far.


DMH

[Wolf]

Good post Dean.
So what is your opinion on BFBSers? ... deserving of anger or pity?

RE internet trolls... the 'net is a wonderful thing yet like all technologies has its disadvantages. The main one I see is the anonymity. With the only direct communication being a keyboard users feel no obligation to obey cultural norms of decency, maturity and respect necessary in 'traditional' communication methods. This leads to outrageous abusive insult hurling from cowards who would never dare act in person like they do online. The 'net brings out the worst in humanity because users suffer no consequences for their actions.

[Dean Harrison]

Hi Wolf,

We are all Human and are sometimes vulnerable to emotions stemmed via other peoples actions.

I've learn't to somewhat turn it off to an extent. But I'm still Human.

Regarding the Hoaxers. What can you do.... America has the worst of the worst and some seemingly without any morals. Simply attention seekers. Clearly a lot lacking in their lives. God knows how they function in the real life. Dyer, in my opinion was one of the worst. The guy has no impact in my life, so I have very little care other than a brief eye roll of disgust. Similar to the Australian guy who Posts videos of digging himself further into a hole.


Good topic line Wolf. Thank you.


DMH

[Simonious]

Great post Wolf. One that has finally got me off my arse to post here for the first time. The problem with hoaxers is that there are so many nowadays that it has made the credible researcher a laughing stock and have put the whole movement back 20 years in terms of acceptance. The big issue though is the money they can make through subscribers on YouTube. If we could take that away then I think the number of hoaxers decline.

But in answer to your question I think any hoaxer deserves anything that's coming to them. They waste a lot of folks time and theirs is no point arguing with them. But hell if you get your kicks trolling them go right ahead. I give Dr Squatch some grief every now and then when some idiot posts one of his videos up in some Facebook groups I am in.

[Rusty2]

The big issue though is the money they can make through subscribers on YouTube

There's no money in youtube unless your getting millions of hits .

http://socialblade.com/youtube/user/viral6000

https://socialblade.com/youtube/user/therusty222

[Simonious]

The big issue though is the money they can make through subscribers on YouTube

There's no money in youtube unless your getting millions of hits .

http://socialblade.com/youtube/user/viral6000

https://socialblade.com/youtube/user/therusty222

Not talking or having a shot at legit researchers like your self Russ. I am talking about the ones that do have a couple of hundred thousand followers and are making a good income. What you see on social blade is just an estimate of what they could be making. It doesn't take into account other income sources as well and other advertising they can have on YouTube. They are not going to make millions but will get steady additional income for doing practically nothing. These are the ones more likely to produce a hoax and put it on their channel. I am just saying money is a motivator as well as other things like fame.

I have no problem with legit researchers making some coin for their efforts but also realise that legit guys are never going to make a living from it.

[Simonious]

Just surfing the web and I find this. Todd Standing and his Slyvanic Bigfoot channel charging $2.99 to see a half hour documentary of his "real" Bigfoot images. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8WaKuFHQU0

This stuff ticks me off. When fakers make money off it. He hasn't posted anything for ages and now he produces a "reworked" mini doco for cash.

[Yowie bait]

Just surfing the web and I find this. Todd Standing and his Slyvanic Bigfoot channel charging $2.99 to see a half hour documentary of his "real" Bigfoot images. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8WaKuFHQU0

This stuff ticks me off. When fakers make money off it. He hasn't posted anything for ages and now he produces a "reworked" mini doco for cash.

Yeah its a joke. A large percentage of bigfoot/yowie community would be full of s...t. I doubt many of these so called researchers even believe in them or will ever see one for that matter. I can count on one hand the researchers i trust in.
All of them Australian, non profit and spending copious amounts of their own money in their quest for truth.

Sworn skeptics are a waste of space too. Wouldnt waste my precious time talking to these assclowns and have absolutely no respect for their opinion. Healthy skeptism excluded of course.

[Yowie bait]

Just surfing the web and I find this. Todd Standing and his Slyvanic Bigfoot channel charging $2.99 to see a half hour documentary of his "real" Bigfoot images. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8WaKuFHQU0

This stuff ticks me off. When fakers make money off it. He hasn't posted anything for ages and now he produces a "reworked" mini doco for cash.

Yeah its a joke. A large percentage of bigfoot/yowie community would be full of s...t. I doubt many of these so called researchers even believe in them or will ever see one for that matter. I can count on one hand the researchers i trust in.
All of them Australian, non profit and spending copious amounts of their own money in their quest for truth.

Sworn skeptics are a waste of space too. Wouldnt waste my precious time talking to these assclowns and have absolutely no respect for their opinion. Healthy skeptism excluded of course.

Eew a very negative post my me. Considering i spend so much time on youtube and am incredibly gullible most of the time. I also have a very over the top yowie encounter to my name so probably should be more understanding of others as well.

Thats great to have the healthy skeptism or whatever but personally i have no idea if someone is hoaxing or not unless its obvious. I appreciate anyone who shares their stories on the forum, whether its an encounter or researcher. All the best to you all!