The only primate to have crossed the Wallace line

[Boab Bob]

Gigantopithecus aside, could the yowie be descended from the crab-eating macaque or it's family? It's the only primate to have crossed the Wallace Line where there is open deep ocean albeit only a dozen or two miles back then. Could Australia have acted like the African savannah but the yowie only reched the "Wooden Age" before homo sapiens arrival?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab-eating_macaque
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cate ... scicularis

[Wolf]

Good topic.

I subscribe to the theory that humans developed hooded noses so they could swim relatively easily and indeed extremely efficiently compared to any other known primate... ie: The Aquatic Ape theory.
If our hairy cousins have hooded noses as suggested by the vast majority of reports.
They are also very curious animals.
It is very easy for me to imagine one or more standing on the shoreline of what today is New Guinea, staring intently across to the other shore and wondering.
I believe them to be very cautious animals too, preferrnig not to risk injury if possible as even small injuries can mean death in the bush from infection. Whether one's curiosity would be enough to risk the mile or so swim through what would have been predator infested waters is the real question.

Possibly one occasionally jumped into the sea to avoid land predation and got caught in rips.
Or perhaps they arrived on trees washed out to sea in storms, clinging to the branches.

Regardless of how they arrived I would give almost anything to be able to go back to watch thier amazement at the new creatures they encountered... goannas over twenty feet long, giant kangaroos, diprodoton, marsupial lions, etc.

It would have been quite literally, a new world to them as much as it was to us.

[Wolf]

Or perhaps they arrived WITH so called 'modern humans'.
History is replete of stories of giants living amongst humans, as equals or slaves. Perhaps it was thier muscle that built the megalithic structures all over the world?

[paulmcleod67]

Gondwanaland, Antarctic, Charles Hapgood.... nuff said.

[paulmcleod67]

My hokey theory in images for brevity......

[paulmcleod67]

Here's an artifact I found whilst fossicking in Queensland that potentially shows Papua New Guinea and Australia prior to see levels rising...

[paulmcleod67]

Damb auto correct....."SEA" levels....

[paulmcleod67]

And on the reverse side of the stone (which is black Chert)......

[gregvalentine]

And on the reverse side of the stone (which is black Chert)......

All I see is a rock.

[paulmcleod67]

A rock with some pretty interesting geometry on it.....

[Wolf]

Gondwanaland, Antarctic, Charles Hapgood.... nuff said.

Not to mention the Expanding Earth Theory over Continental Drift.
Oops, I just mentioned it

[Simon M]

The rock has been deliberately marked by someone in my opinion, and many ancient navigators stuck close to the shoreline in order to avoid getting lost at sea (such as the ancient Phonecians and Greeks), as well as navigating by the stars, by the sun, and by using lodestones as a compass, etc. They used rocks to make weapons and were experienced at working with it.

http://www.ancient-wisdom.com/theworldgrid.htm

There's no way of proving that's a map, but many neolithic cultures used a kind of visual shorthand involving combinations of straight lines to indicate direction and other symbols to indicate the presence of cairns and other artificial landmarks.

I think Paul is on the right track with his ideas about this stone. Just my (armchair) opinion, of course. I don't claim to be an expert, just some bloke with an opinion.

[Boab Bob]

Can we stick to the topic instead of posting quack bollocks.

[Wolf]

Sorry, but it just looks like a rock to me too.
I have seen similar 'designs' in thousands of rocks like this and believe them to be a natural occurrence.
Paul, have you given it to a geologist to look at?

[paulmcleod67]

Can we stick to the topic instead of posting quack bollocks.

Quack? F....U pal

[paulmcleod67]

I value constructive criticism immensely. I have mostly found lessons to be learned there in.

Sadly my Achilles heel has always been sarcasm, of which I just can't seem to develop a high tolerance to....and I overreact to it.

Sarcasm is used as a tool in scientific debate, this I understand...but( to my old fashioned brain) it just comes off as rudeness.

As a bi-product of my upbringing ( in a family of bikers and truckies CIRCA 1970's and a good 10 year run in the army) rudeness was ....shall we say....frowned upon.

So I should write a form apology for my occasional dummy spits because two seconds later I REGRET THEM.

My comment above was one of those CRANKY moments and I apologize for it.

I just don't feel that the Wallace line theory takes into account the scale of archaic time that these clearly super relic hominid arrived/ evolved in Australia and that absence of evidence is not evidence of total absence.

"To state that there's nothing new to be discovered is absurd ! Its really just a question of a lack of samples"

Todd Disatell Ph.D. 1992, M.A. 1987, Harvard, B.A. 1985, Cornell.

http://anthropology.as.nyu.edu/object/todddisotell.html

The question is not a lack of samples, at least not in Australia, the question is whom do we give the samples too and who's paying the massive amount of money it takes to test the samples we all know are out there?

All this has been going on since.....

http://www.abc.net.au/local/stories/201 ... 145054.htm


Looking at those early documents, Myf believes that McCooey and his claims were poo-pooed by academics like Ramsay
because he was an amateur.
We only have one side of the back and forth between the two but clearly it's a passionate debate.
Again in The Australian Town and Country Journal, McCooey writes:
"The mere fact of no apes [are] found in the Sydney Museum does not justify us in rushing to the conclusion that there are none in the colony, for it is extremely improbable that any ape will be foolhardy enough to present itself at the museum to undergo the somewhat delicate operation of stuffing; and beyond the fact that there are, none to be found in the Sydney Museum there is not one scintilla of evidence to prove that they are not to be found in the colony, while there is abundance of evidence to show that they are."

Imagine Ramsay's reaction at reading that.

McCooey goes on trying to prove his case:
"I do not claim to be the first who has seen this animal, for I can put my finger on half a dozen men at Bateman's Bay who have seen the same, or at any rate an animal of a similar description; but I think I am the first to come forward in the columns of a newspaper and give publicity to the fact of having seen it.
"I may mention that a search party was organised at Bateman's Bay some months ago to surround the locality [and] the supposed ape... and shoot or capture it, but the idea was abandoned in consequence of the likelihood of gun accidents; and I may further state that the skeleton of an ape, 4ft in length, may be seen at any time in a cave 14 miles from Bateman's Bay, in the direction of Ulladulla."

It appears that in December of 1882, Ramsay offered McCooey 100 pounds to bring in his yowie dead or alive. McCooey believed it was a challenge he could meet but, as far as we can tell, the 100 pounds wasn't claimed.

Eleven months later on October 20 1883 the discourse is still bubbling between the two men.

McCooey, writing from Mandurama between Bathurst and Cowra on October 15 1883, says:
"...the position taken by the Curator of the Museum is absolutely untenable... there are indigenous apes in this colony...they have been frequently seen in Budawong mountains, in Jingera mountains, and in the Abercrombie mountains, at Bateman's Bay, at Mount Macdonald, and on the Guy Fawkes-road between Armidale and Grafton...apes were known to the aborigines of this colony, and were dreaded by them, long before a museum was founded in Australia, or a white man crossed the Murray; and that one was actually captured and killed near Braidwood within the memory of persons still living."

Referring to her understanding of the research, Myf Thompson feels Ramsay questioned McCooey's motivations, suggesting he was more interested in claiming the money, and that it was the amateur naturalist who suggested the cash reward not him. Ramsay's impression is perhaps built on talk at the time of McCooey's criminal record which points to claims of fraud.

Ramsay also seemed to suggest that the Australian landscape couldn't sustain a creature such as McCooey's.
Speculation continues to this day about the existence of a yowie in local bush land".

And round and round we go,

Cheers

[Wolf]

And have you shown your stone to a geologist?

Back to the Wallace Line...
One particular 'Quack Theory' I like is the Expanding Earth Theory... taking this theory into consideration the distance from New Guinea, across the Torres Strait (The Wallace Line) would have been even less.

[paulmcleod67]

And have you shown your stone to a geologist?

Back to the Wallace Line...
One particular 'Quack Theory' I like is the Expanding Earth Theory... taking this theory into consideration the distance from New Guinea, across the Torres Strait (The Wallace Line) would have been even less.

Indeed and modern sat maps showing relative continental shelf depth ergo ancient shorelines would agree with you mate.

Here's a rough overlay on the approximate amount of exposed land during much lower sea levels (i'ts a bit rough and Ill define it later).

[paulmcleod67]

Here is one of the latest geo maps used by mining studies

[paulmcleod67]

The theory I'm working on is a possible working mechanism for Hapgood's crustal displacement,(elements of which impressed Einstein so much).

My theory utilizes "impact tectonics" rather than polar ice build up as a mechanism that (given enough impact mass) can PUSH and pull tectonic plates over deeper magma.

There is an area in Africa that provides a sufficiently located and large enough impact crater with a corresponding area on the opposite side of the globe which displays subsurface buckling and radial fractures on a titanic scale, in a nutshell...It looks like a bullet exit wound and its in the right spot.

The initial ( and massive) blast wave propagating through the core separated and then pushed the Australasian plate away from Antarctica at a rapid rate.

Ever noticed the comparative distance the Australian plate moves away from Antarctica, as opposed to other relative landmasses?

Fig 1 (bottom image)

[paulmcleod67]

So its all about time frames.

Is it possible that the Wallace line could be irreverent to species migration if impact tectonics can be applied and incorporated into to continental drift.

Just a thought.

Cheers

[paulmcleod67]

Irrelevant....damb auto correct. lol

[paulmcleod67]

Seems I'm not the only one that thinks the 400'000 yr old (geologically very young in fact) lake Victoria is a young and massive impact crater lake.

Just found this article.

http://www.geoledgers.com/Africa/LakeVi ... toria.html

[paulmcleod67]

Also 400,000 years ago.....

http://www.iflscience.com/plants-and-an ... ent-human/

A fossil site in Spain has turned up some astonishing results: mitochondrial DNA from hominins that lived 400,000 years ago. The DNA suggests they were related to the Denisovans; an extinct hominin group that was recently shown to have interbred with Neanderthals and modern humans. The results of the study were published this week in Nature from lead author Matthias Meyer from the Department of Evolutionary Genetics at the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.

The Sima de los Huesos is a cave fossil site in Spain that has been studied and excavated over the last 20 years. So far nearly 30 skeletons have been recovered from the site, all of which are at least 300,000 years old. They are tentatively classified as Homo heidelbergensis, though there are distinct physiological similarities to Neanderthals. Popularly, they are being referred to as the Sima hominins. Thanks to advances in sequencing technology, the researchers were able to recover a near-complete mitochondrial genome to learn more about our ancient relatives.

The recovered DNA came from a 400,000 year old femur recovered by a team of Spanish scientists. Meyer’s team of German geneticists used special techniques to restore the damaged mtDNA. The resulting sequence gave the researchers a few surprises as it revealed ancient secrets about hominin evolution. This is one of the oldest genomes ever recovered; which is doubly impressive since these bones were not preserved through permafrost.

The bones recovered from Sima look somewhat similar to Neanderthals, but their mtDNA shows they are more closely related to Denisovans. This raises questions about the evolutionary relationships between these groups. The Sima remains were from a population that may have been ancestral to Neanderthals and Denisovans or there could have been a yet-unknown group that caused the shared genetic information.

The success of finding the code for such old mtDNA opens the door for genomes of other ancient fossils to be sequenced. Future research will also try to obtain mtDNA from other individuals at the Sima site, as well as trying to recover nuclear DNA which reveal many secrets of the lives of this extinct human population.

[paulmcleod67]

https://arstechnica.com/science/2014/04 ... ontinents/


Relevant quotes...


Massive asteroid may have kickstarted the movement of continents.


"A possible reason why Earth has moving plates may be to do with the heat trapped in the mantle. Other planets may not have as much heat trapped when they formed, which means the convection may not be strong enough to move the plates. However, according to Redfern: "Even with a hot mantle you would need something to destabilise the crust." And it is possible that an asteroid impact of this magnitude could have achieved that".


"Donald Lowe and Norman Sleep at Stanford University, who published their research in the journal Geochemistry, Geophysics, Geosystems, were able to say all this based on tiny, spherical rocks found in the Barberton greenstone belt in South Africa. These rocks are the only remnants of the cataclysmic event."

"The effects were so catastrophic that, along with the large earthquakes and tsunamis it created, this asteroid may have also set continents into motion."

Crustal displacement by any other model is still crustal displacement.

Cheers

[paulmcleod67]

oops me again...sorry.

Just found this cool gravity map that bolsters my theory.

[paulmcleod67]

Tectonic plate intrusion zone ages measure as ZERO millions of years old where the Australian plate meets Antarctica, African and (violently overlaps) the pacific plate.

[paulmcleod67]

I seem to be right back where I started with all this new data....Gondwanaland, but at a much later date (hypertheticaly) 400,000 years ago (very roughly) due to geological data that suggests Lake Victoria in the Congo region of Africa is a massive crater lake only 400,000 years old. Along with satellite maps of the ocean floor possibly showing a huge radial fracture in the South Pacific region near French Polynesia, which could be attributed to the Lake Victoria impact on the opposite side of the globe (comparable to a bullets entry and exit points). Sat Maps of the Australian continental plate indicate a swift, geologically young and violent overlapping of the Pacific plate also pushing towards Indonesia and creating the Wallace line at a much earlier time (almost earlier than even I can believe!).

All this hypothetical long windiness brings me to this final image...




Commence tomato chucking......NOW

[rodbenfield59]

Hi Paul that was a great read mate but can i through a spanner in there for a second .Aboriginals have been in this country for over 30,000 thousand yrs and proof in aboriginal folk law rock paintings etc of the presents of the hairy man .most will agree this is true ,now what if your theory was reversed and the the hairy folk were here say 30k years before the aboriginal .I summize that the Wallace line was crossed but out of Australia not into and that our hairy folk migrated to the current sighting spots all over the globe /hence Yeti,Yarin,Bigfoot,Sasquatch etc.I am suggesting that when the Australia Aboriginal migrated across to New Guinea up through Asia ,Russia etc and across into Canada and the US oops left out Europe .As the Australian aboriginal migrated with all of its culture it drew the hairy folk along with them.Look at similarities between the natives of Tibet the Eskimo and the American Indian only defined by colour.

[Tim*]

Hi Paul

I think the map youre seeing is more than likely a natural formation.

That being said, anomolous rocks have been found. Steve Strong, author of Forgotten Origins, does work in this area and has some compelling examples of chert artifacts. It may be worth handing over to a bloke like Steve for further study?

Tim