Scientific analysis of dental impressions in stacks of rib bones around Mt St Helens

[moetunes]

I've read this before but enjoyed reading it again and thought others might too.
A scientist kept finding stacks of deer and elk rib bones around Mt St Helens in the U.S. and used the dental impressions to draw conclusions and presented his results.
[url]https://www.ancient-origins.net/unexpla ... nce-005737[\url]

[Rusty2]

Yes , it's a very detailed analysis . Here is a link to the actual white paper .

https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?res ... mAVbvcVkIM

[Mad Academic]

Thanks for posting this, guys.
I found it to be a very interesting and extremely well-written paper.
Interesting how the indentations on the bones can be used to estimate not only tooth size but jaw size, and how the footprint size can be extrapolated to height. Further, the height estimated correlates well with eyewitness reports of "Bigfoot" (7-9 feet tall).
Another example of how the application of the Scientific Method to evidence (bones and a footprint) can produce valuable results.
Those who constantly carp and criticise the academic community will probably ignore this, however.

[sensesonfire]

Thanks for posting this, guys.
I found it to be a very interesting and extremely well-written paper.
Interesting how the indentations on the bones can be used to estimate not only tooth size but jaw size, and how the footprint size can be extrapolated to height. Further, the height estimated correlates well with eyewitness reports of "Bigfoot" (7-9 feet tall).
Another example of how the application of the Scientific Method to evidence (bones and a footprint) can produce valuable results.
Those who constantly carp and criticise the academic community will probably ignore this, however.

No denial from me I fully accept the scientific evaluation. We all know Bigfoot and Yowie exist that's not the question. The question is why we have no evidence of their physical reality?

[Rusty2]

The question is why we have no evidence of their physical reality?

Because in the eye's of the scientific community , bigfoot and yowies do not exist . The scientific community has no evidence of living yowies , apparently .

There is however evidence that something similar to what witnesses have observed did actually exist and is in the fossil record .
http://anthropology.iresearchnet.com/gigantopithecus/
It is estimated that Gigantopithecus lived around 100,000 years ago . What we know as the Dooligah may be a long distance relative of Gigantopithecus .

Homo floresiensis is also in the fossil record , a very small person/fossil and may have existed as little as 10,000 years ago although I've heard a number of educated guesses . This little person may also be a relative or cousin of what witnesses have described seeing in the forests of Australia . What the Aboriginal people call the Junjudee . Hope I spelt it correctly .
http://humanorigins.si.edu/research/asi ... -indonesia

As we all know here , there is indeed something in the forest . This is the part where we come in with a hypothesis , an idea , a guess .
Now we all have our own hypothesis/idea of what is and what isn't evidence .

My guess/hypothesis is that I actually do have evidence , not of yowies , Gigantopithecus or Homo floresiensis but of a relative of the above fossils .

I've collected unknown calls , vocalisations and what appears to be speech , unknown footprints and fingerprints , unknown hair samples and time lapse sequences that clearly show something odd . No matter who I send those recordings to , no one from any official institution can tell me what they are .

It is my hypothesis that I've collected a body of evidence that points to a living relative or relatives of the above fossils .

Last but not least , in 2009 when I started all this I contacted an anthropologist from the ANU , professor Colin Groves .
https://www.anu.edu.au/news/all-news/va ... lin-groves

He diplomatically dismissed my questions and politely asked for a "video or a body" . Obviously I couldn't get him one but over the years I reasoned with him and sent him my audio files .
Somewhere in 2014 he joined the Relict Hominoid Enquiry .
https://www.isu.edu/rhi/editorial-board/
I'm pretty sure he believed something was going on .

[sensesonfire]

The question is why we have no evidence of their physical reality?

Because in the eye's of the scientific community , bigfoot and yowies do not exist . The scientific community has no evidence of living yowies , apparently .

There is however evidence that something similar to what witnesses have observed did actually exist and is in the fossil record .
http://anthropology.iresearchnet.com/gigantopithecus/
It is estimated that Gigantopithecus lived around 100,000 years ago . What we know as the Dooligah may be a long distance relative of Gigantopithecus .

Homo floresiensis is also in the fossil record , a very small person/fossil and may have existed as little as 10,000 years ago although I've heard a number of educated guesses . This little person may also be a relative or cousin of what witnesses have described seeing in the forests of Australia . What the Aboriginal people call the Junjudee . Hope I spelt it correctly .
http://humanorigins.si.edu/research/asi ... -indonesia

As we all know here , there is indeed something in the forest . This is the part where we come in with a hypothesis , an idea , a guess .
Now we all have our own hypothesis/idea of what is and what isn't evidence .

My guess/hypothesis is that I actually do have evidence , not of yowies , Gigantopithecus or Homo floresiensis but of a relative of the above fossils .

I've collected unknown calls , vocalisations and what appears to be speech , unknown footprints and fingerprints , unknown hair samples and time lapse sequences that clearly show something odd . No matter who I send those recordings to , no one from any official institution can tell me what they are .

It is my hypothesis that I've collected a body of evidence that points to a living relative or relatives of the above fossils .

Last but not least , in 2009 when I started all this I contacted an anthropologist from the ANU , professor Colin Groves .
https://www.anu.edu.au/news/all-news/va ... lin-groves

He diplomatically dismissed my questions and politely asked for a "video or a body" . Obviously I couldn't get him one but over the years I reasoned with him and sent him my audio files .
Somewhere in 2014 he joined the Relict Hominoid Enquiry .
https://www.isu.edu/rhi/editorial-board/
I'm pretty sure he believed something was going on .

It's obvious Rusty2 you have done a great deal of research into this and I believe all of it but what is apparent there is a great number of unknowns. The academic world refuses to touch this subject why? probably because without real physical evidence they may have to acknowledge the possibility of some sought of paranormality a word of course which is not in their vocabulary. And without the science fraternity on board this will never be solved one way or the other.

I can quite understand when the anthropologist asked for a ''video or a body'' for verification this I believe is an admission we don't have one anywhere in the world to investigate.

The great mystery is with all the reports of Bigfoot, Yowies and other unproven species now numbering thousands worldwide we still have no specific clarification of their existence. I can't think of any other species ever on Earth in such great numbers that have proven to be unidentifiable there is no feasible explanation for it.

Don't forget we are still dealing with what is classified as cryptids. Bigfoot, Yowie yes people may be starting to come around to the concept of their existence but the other gigantic cryptid in the room Dogman people refuse to comprehend at all so conveniently ignore it. I have my theory but I won't go into it here.

As I've said I'm all on board with your scientific research but my comment seems to be drifting away towards the paranormal and until the chasm can be closed by science or whatever the differences are going to remain.

All of your research is very scientific in dealing with fossils,audio files

[Rusty2]

I'm really busy right now Senses , I'll get back to you asap .

[aaq]

A consideration, senses:

If the scientific community/government revealed to the world that a 3m tall, 300kg predator was lurking in the woods, do you think that would have a positive effect for both species, or negative?

Consider families no longer going on bushwalks for fear of getting eaten. Claims against the government. Hunters seeking the prize body... Which then has the following rough series of events:
-sasquatch shot
-shooter taken, ripped to pieces, eaten, including his hunting partner
-one escaped hunter who recounts the situation...

Massey hysteria.

Have to be very careful - quiet and private acknowledgement is actually probably the absolute best for both species.

[sensesonfire]

Unread post by aaq » Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:15 am

A consideration, senses:

If the scientific community/government revealed to the world that a 3m tall, 300kg predator was lurking in the woods, do you think that would have a positive effect for both species, or negative?

Consider families no longer going on bushwalks for fear of getting eaten. Claims against the government. Hunters seeking the prize body... Which then has the following rough series of events:
-sasquatch shot
-shooter taken, ripped to pieces, eaten, including his hunting partner
-one escaped hunter who recounts the situation...

I can relate to your opinion aaq but by the same token do you not think that if a 300kg monster is lurking out there and I'm not just talking Bigfoot/Yowie but other diabolical predators like Dogman that the public should not be warned regarding their safety? after all their numbers are exponentially increasing. Our Forum members are well aware of the possible dangers of Yowies but that wouldn't apply to the general public most of who don't even believe in the reality of these beings.

Families but more so individuals have gone on bushwalks and disappeared no evidence that they were taken by these cryptids but there is a great deal of suspicion and in Australia, Yowies have also been suspected in the disappearances whether these people were perceived as a threat (shooters) who knows? but like the creatures themselves, we don't have any evidence or do we? I would love to have access to private police reports from the 1800s,1900s to what they believed happened to these missing individuals I think they would reveal some interesting information. Some reports were actually recorded as a Yowie or Junjudee attack. Literally hundreds of people have gone missing and never returned and it's not all due to natural causes.

You say: -sasquatch shot
-shooter taken, ripped to pieces, eaten, including his hunting partner
-one escaped hunter who recounts the situation...

Substitute Sasquatch for Dogman and this actually happened back in the 1800s in the US. A hunting party of seven shooters who belonged to an organisation specifically assigned to hunt cryptid creatures was despatched from New York by request to South Tennessee to eradicate a pack of wolves said to be harassing farming homesteads.
Originally two of the shooters were sent on the mission neither returned so out went the remaining five all viciously slaughtered except for one who managed to escape and give his account of what these wolves actually were.

Governments would definitely not want to acknowledge these cryptids (and that's what they are) for their own self-interests but I believe that in the future when the problem exacerbates (that's a different story) they will have no option but to do just that. At the moment these creatures are more benevolent than malevolent but I believe that will change.

[aaq]

I guess if the above happened (and I tend to believe it) I'm not sure how we'd all go if it was 'officially recognised'. Mass hysteria. (or Massey hysteria if you're a Neil Young fan).

We'll assume it's 'officially suppressed' and so, with the exception of an incredibly unfortunate few, life goes on and nobody is any wiser - Ignorance is Bliss.

So although there are some benefits to being open about them (yowie, dogman, etc) in terms of study and conservation, I can understand that there may be more to negatives thank positives for disclosure.

[Mad Academic]

[

No denial from me I fully accept the scientific evaluation. We all know Bigfoot and Yowie exist that's not the question. The question is why we have no evidence of their physical reality?

So what do you call the "bone pile"?
What do you call the tooth impressions on the bones?
What do you call the footprint?
How do you explain the strength needed to rip rib bones from vertebrae?

This is all evidence. What's more, it's evidence of a VERY physical creature. Ghosts don't leave footprints or eat (to my knowledge.)

Granted; there is no body presented for examination to a medical centre or university (that we know of).
I believe it will happen, but probably by accident (eg; hit by a truck and killed...we have reports of a couple of close calls of this). I can't imagine the difficulties or risks associated with deliberately trying to hunt/trap/shoot something of that size and strength. Not to mention the ethical difficulties.

[Mad Academic]

The question is why we have no evidence of their physical reality?

Because in the eye's of the scientific community , bigfoot and yowies do not exist . The scientific community has no evidence of living yowies , apparently .

I've collected unknown calls , vocalisations and what appears to be speech , unknown footprints and fingerprints , unknown hair samples and time lapse sequences that clearly show something odd . No matter who I send those recordings to , no one from any official institution can tell me what they are .


Last but not least , in 2009 when I started all this I contacted an anthropologist from the ANU , professor Colin Groves .
https://www.anu.edu.au/news/all-news/va ... lin-groves

He diplomatically dismissed my questions and politely asked for a "video or a body" . Obviously I couldn't get him one but over the years I reasoned with him and sent him my audio files .
Somewhere in 2014 he joined the Relict Hominoid Enquiry .
https://www.isu.edu/rhi/editorial-board/
I'm pretty sure he believed something was going on .

"Because in the eye's of the scientific community , bigfoot and yowies do not exist ."
That's not strictly true, Rusty. The scientific community keeps an open mind and waits for only 1 thing: evidence.
You are asking people such as Prof. Groves to confirm or deny the validity of your hypothesis but he has no evidence on which to base his opinion.
You have evidence; he doesn't.
If he obtains a body or video, as he put it, then he will have some foundation on which to base future opinion.
Asking people to believe without evidence is a bit unfair. And I say that as a retired biologist.
I'm sure, privately, that he is fascinated by the topic and wants to believe, but he has to have that body or very compelling other evidence first.

That's my view anyway.

Cheers,
MA

[sensesonfire]

[

No denial from me I fully accept the scientific evaluation. We all know Bigfoot and Yowie exist that's not the question. The question is why we have no evidence of their physical reality?

So what do you call the "bone pile"?
What do you call the tooth impressions on the bones?
What do you call the footprint?
How do you explain the strength needed to rip rib bones from vertebrae?

This is all evidence. What's more, it's evidence of a VERY physical creature. Ghosts don't leave footprints or eat (to my knowledge.)

Granted; there is no body presented for examination to a medical centre or university (that we know of).
I believe it will happen, but probably by accident (eg; hit by a truck and killed...we have reports of a couple of close calls of this). I can't imagine the difficulties or risks associated with deliberately trying to hunt/trap/shoot something of that size and strength. Not to mention the ethical difficulties.

The bone pile, tooth impressions, footprint, all of these are the effect but we cannot 100% verify the cause we presume it to be a Bigfoot but science doesn't work on assumptions.

Ghosts don't leave footprints or eat (to my knowledge.) If we are talking about Bigfoot then that is not the case.

Bigfoot has well been known to leave footprints that inexplicably vanish into thin air, Two Bigfoot witnessed by a couple in New Mexico running up a steep sandy embankment when they went to investigate no footprints. Bigfoot footprints leading into drying up river bed then mysteriously just end. Bigfoot actually witnessed levitating no footprints there. As for eating IMO opinion, it's a preferential thing they won't die if they don't eat.

I believe hunting Bigfoot in the US has been attempted but it is a case of the hunter becoming the hunted. Yeah, we've heard the stories I shot a Bigfoot! load of bull no bodies ever produced and if they have then they have achieved the greatest concealment job in history.

Granted; there is no body presented for examination to a medical centre or university (that we know of).
I believe it will happen, but probably by accident (eg; hit by a truck and killed...we have reports of a couple of close calls of this). I can't imagine the difficulties or risks associated with deliberately trying to hunt/trap/shoot something of that size and strength. Not to mention the ethical difficulties.
[/quote]

I'm being the cynic again here but these creatures have been roaming around for hundreds of years managing to avoid being hit by cars, trucks, trains and bullets certainly won't do it once again stories of the military intervening to wipe out Bigfoot families - evidence please, although I have heard reports of a Bigfoot being struck dead by a lightning strike although no proof of course. Their ability to move at tremendous speeds does not lend themselves to be accidentally struck by anything really.

[Mad Academic]

No denial from me I fully accept the scientific evaluation. We all know Bigfoot and Yowie exist that's not the question. The question is why we have no evidence of their physical reality?


The bone pile, tooth impressions, footprint, all of these are the effect but we cannot 100% verify the cause we presume it to be a Bigfoot but science doesn't work on assumptions.

These are not "an effect". They are EVIDENCE. You conveniently choose to ignore it.

You're unbelievable. You sneer, mock and denigrate science and scientists and their method, then, you pontificate that "science doesn't work on assumptions". Have you ever considered what you "work" on, when you post your "explanations"?

Bigfoot has well been known to leave footprints that inexplicably vanish into thin air, Two Bigfoot witnessed by a couple in New Mexico running up a steep sandy embankment when they went to investigate no footprints. Bigfoot footprints leading into drying up river bed then mysteriously just end. Bigfoot actually witnessed levitating no footprints there. As for eating IMO opinion, it's a preferential thing they won't die if they don't eat.

I have never read such rubbish in my life. Australian yowies and American Bigfoot...they have all been observed eating. Try not eating and see how long you last.

I'm being the cynic again here but these creatures have been roaming around for hundreds of years managing to avoid being hit by cars, trucks, trains and bullets certainly won't do it once again stories of the military intervening to wipe out Bigfoot families - evidence please, although I have heard reports of a Bigfoot being struck dead by a lightning strike although no proof of course. Their ability to move at tremendous speeds does not lend themselves to be accidentally struck by anything really.
[/quote]

Again; you are being selective. Ignoring that which does not fit your "narrative". There are several reports of American Bigfoot being hit by cars. So your statement above is factually incorrect. None were fatal, which is not a surprise given the size of the creature and the fact most drivers had slowed after seeing it. The recent video from Russia is another example. There is a report of one being killed by Aborigines in the 19th century. Of course; none of these have resulted in a body being donated to science, but the fact that the reports even exist indicates that they are physical beings that can be injured or killed. I repeat; the Australian report of the truck driver indicates that, if he did not brake heavily, he would have hit the "Yowie". We can only speculate on what the result may have been, but I think it likely the Yowie may have come off 2nd-best against a Kenworth truck.

To conclude; if you wish to push your "paranormal barrow"; please do it in the section of the website reserved for that.

[sensesonfire]

Bigfoot has well been known to leave footprints that inexplicably vanish into thin air, Two Bigfoot witnessed by a couple in New Mexico running up a steep sandy embankment when they went to investigate no footprints. Bigfoot footprints leading into drying up river bed then mysteriously just end. Bigfoot actually witnessed levitating no footprints there. As for eating IMO opinion, it's a preferential thing they won't die if they don't eat.

I have never read such rubbish in my life. Australian yowies and American Bigfoot...they have all been observed eating. Try not eating and see how long you last.

Your narrow minded scientific mind needs to be enlightened you should realise there are many mysteries in this world that can't be explained but being what did you say? a retired biologist I wouldn't expect a change too soon and by the way you conveniently forgot to mention the disappearing Bigfoot footprints. I can't believe your audacity to keep dismissing the paranormal aspect when your'e working from a very limited almost non-existent data base. You can't even get the support of your fellow scientists that says a lot. Your collective topics on the forum have shown that the general viewing public show little interest in your scientific opinions compared to my paranormal reports does that not ring a bell.



Again; you are being selective. Ignoring that which does not fit your "narrative". There are several reports of American Bigfoot being hit by cars. So your statement above is factually incorrect. None were fatal, which is not a surprise given the size of the creature and the fact most drivers had slowed after seeing it. The recent video from Russia is another example. There is a report of one being killed by Aborigines in the 19th century. Of course; none of these have resulted in a body being donated to science, but the fact that the reports even exist indicates that they are physical beings that can be injured or killed. I repeat; the Australian report of the truck driver indicates that, if he did not brake heavily, he would have hit the "Yowie". We can only speculate on what the result may have been, but I think it likely the Yowie may have come off 2nd-best against a Kenworth truck.

To conclude; if you wish to push your "paranormal barrow"; please do it in the section of the website reserved for that.
[/quote]

These creatures have managed to elude humans for centuries so until a Bigfoot/Yowie body presents itself only then will you make progress.
Just a hair follicle or a tiny piece of tissue could answer all these questions. Remember that MA but no nothing until that time I would have thought it best to keep a lower profile it could save a little embarrassment. It is noted that the vast majority of the academic world do. I have no intention in responding to your blinkered science opinions it was you who snidely replied to mine so lets keep it that way.

[adventurer]

No denial from me I fully accept the scientific evaluation. We all know Bigfoot and Yowie exist that's not the question. The question is why we have no evidence of their physical reality?


The bone pile, tooth impressions, footprint, all of these are the effect but we cannot 100% verify the cause we presume it to be a Bigfoot but science doesn't work on assumptions.

These are not "an effect". They are EVIDENCE. You conveniently choose to ignore it.

You're unbelievable. You sneer, mock and denigrate science and scientists and their method, then, you pontificate that "science doesn't work on assumptions". Have you ever considered what you "work" on, when you post your "explanations"?

Bigfoot has well been known to leave footprints that inexplicably vanish into thin air, Two Bigfoot witnessed by a couple in New Mexico running up a steep sandy embankment when they went to investigate no footprints. Bigfoot footprints leading into drying up river bed then mysteriously just end. Bigfoot actually witnessed levitating no footprints there. As for eating IMO opinion, it's a preferential thing they won't die if they don't eat.

I have never read such rubbish in my life. Australian yowies and American Bigfoot...they have all been observed eating. Try not eating and see how long you last.

I'm being the cynic again here but these creatures have been roaming around for hundreds of years managing to avoid being hit by cars, trucks, trains and bullets certainly won't do it once again stories of the military intervening to wipe out Bigfoot families - evidence please, although I have heard reports of a Bigfoot being struck dead by a lightning strike although no proof of course. Their ability to move at tremendous speeds does not lend themselves to be accidentally struck by anything really.

Again; you are being selective. Ignoring that which does not fit your "narrative". There are several reports of American Bigfoot being hit by cars. So your statement above is factually incorrect. None were fatal, which is not a surprise given the size of the creature and the fact most drivers had slowed after seeing it. The recent video from Russia is another example. There is a report of one being killed by Aborigines in the 19th century. Of course; none of these have resulted in a body being donated to science, but the fact that the reports even exist indicates that they are physical beings that can be injured or killed. I repeat; the Australian report of the truck driver indicates that, if he did not brake heavily, he would have hit the "Yowie". We can only speculate on what the result may have been, but I think it likely the Yowie may have come off 2nd-best against a Kenworth truck.

To conclude; if you wish to push your "paranormal barrow"; please do it in the section of the website reserved for that.
[/quote]


I think yop need to open your eyes mate. Cannot believe your ignorance. So rude. Stay hiding under your rock and stop mocking us. Really you wernt worth even answering too. Dee

[aaq]

I can understand MA's frustration - the bone pile IS actually PHYSICAL EVIDENCE supporting a particular assertion/idea/hypothesis. There were possibly OBSERVATIONS linked with this evidence too, which formed a case for the idea/hypothesis.

The challenging bit is not necessarily the volume or quality of evidence, but whether the community accepts it: a bit like prosecuting a criminal when you have the murder weapon, hair sample, bones of the victim, possibly witnesses (observations) but the judge/jury refused to buy it.

I guess the holy grail of evidence would be the hairy body or the high res video.

In the Skinwalker book they used magnetic instruments, infrared, video, etc. They observed incredible events/phenomena (with and without instruments) and possibly recorded some which would be considered evidence. Their hypothesis seemed to be something in quantum physics - so they had observations, used expert opinion, and possibly had evidence to support their hypothesis. But similarly above, I'm not sure that people have bought it - that's the challenge.

But it's not fair to discount solid evidence (which is, actually, evidence) when you don't have contrary evidence (not just accounts or second/third-hand observations) supporting s contrary hypothesis.

[Mad Academic]

Your narrow minded scientific mind needs to be enlightened you should realise there are many mysteries in this world that can't be explained but being what did you say? a retired biologist I wouldn't expect a change too soon and by the way you conveniently forgot to mention the disappearing Bigfoot footprints. I can't believe your audacity to keep dismissing the paranormal aspect when your'e working from a very limited almost non-existent data base. You can't even get the support of your fellow scientists that says a lot. Your collective topics on the forum have shown that the general viewing public show little interest in your scientific opinions compared to my paranormal reports does that not ring a bell.

Yes; I do reject the "paranormal explanation" when a physical one will do. You, on the other hand, are quick to reject any/all physical evidence in favor of your "theory"...whatever that is. Beings that float in from another dimension or something? LOL. I think you're off your meds again, aren't you?

These creatures have managed to elude humans for centuries so until a Bigfoot/Yowie body presents itself only then will you make progress.
Just a hair follicle or a tiny piece of tissue could answer all these questions.

No; you're wrong ...again. Every time a new species is discovered the first example is known a the Type Specimen. All subsequent examples are compared to that. So a follicle or tissue sample would only be of use if we had an original to which it could be compared. But don't let a few facts get in the way of your story...back to school for you.

Remember that MA but no nothing until that time I would have thought it best to keep a lower profile it could save a little embarrassment. It is noted that the vast majority of the academic world do. I have no intention in responding to your blinkered science opinions it was you who snidely replied to mine so lets keep it that way.
[/quote]

I'm not embarrassed, mate. Not at all. I'm not a sanctimonious God-botherer.
"I have no intention in responding to your blinkered science opinions"...he says, after having replied in detail. LOL

[Mad Academic]

I think yop need to open your eyes mate. Cannot believe your ignorance. So rude. Stay hiding under your rock and stop mocking us. Really you wernt worth even answering too. Dee
[/quote]

Wow; I put out a reasoned argument backed up by fact and looky here....the trolls emerge! LOL!
If you think I'm not worth replying to, then please don't.

[Outback lurker]

Wow,another pissing contest......
He said,she said........I know what they are.....don’t even get me started.......leave it to the expert,me
All stuff we’ve heard before,and not sure about others,but I’m a bit over it.....
This forum member checking out
Good luck to all you guys and your field research,I hope you find what you desire.
Over and out

[Rusty2]

Obviously this is becoming quite a problem , we don't need members leaving because of ongoing differing opinions .

[sensesonfire]

Obviously this is becoming quite a problem , we don't need members leaving because of ongoing differing opinions .

You are so right Rusty2 I have noticed over the years that a great number of paranormal researchers have exited this forum or at least don't seem to report anymore and I suspect the cause is comments like the above diatribe presented in blue. These were researchers who have spent most of their investigating time in the field and have first-hand experience on the paranormal (adventurer). As I've said before it's the paranormal comments that generate the biggest interest out there amongst the public. As I post a paranormal comment viewing numbers exponentially increase unlike the academic ''evidence'' for the want of a better name.

[rowbe]

I would say that a number of people from both sides of the debate e.g. Flesh n' Blood or paranormal, etc have left this site. I know I have considered it quite a few times. But I always come back. I decided some time ago to observe and not to post too much - to skip those discussions that get too 'nasty'. I know certain people are extremely passionate regarding their beliefs - that is why I am still here. However, I believe we don't know enough to debunk either camp - their are so many unknowns.

Yesterday I looked at threads from the start of this site - you know it was much more congenial back then - facts were discussed, alternatives provided but I did not really recall any "lack of respect' for each other. Now I wonder where all those people have gone??

My thought process regarding the hairies have changed from one side to the other - now I have decided to sit on the fence and learn from the little we already know - and to build on that.

I hope to start a new thread in the next few days, I hope I receive some info/comments from both sides.

[sensesonfire]

Hi rowbe,
The logic of rational reasoning. thank you.

[moetunes]

Despite all the goings on here I still think the article is an interesting read

[Bluedog]

If this isn't evidence that some kind of large hominids are roaming the forests of North America I don't know what is!

[Mad Academic]

If this isn't evidence that some kind of large hominids are roaming the forests of North America I don't know what is!

That's right, Bluedog: hard, physical evidence which has been meticulously examined and documented by researchers.
We can draw conclusions from that.
Others ignore the evidence but consult their Ouija-board....or whatever.

[sensesonfire]

If this isn't evidence that some kind of large hominids are roaming the forests of North America I don't know what is!

We all know that some kind of large hominid is roaming the forests but no one will give a definitive answer to what it is why is that? Because academia will not make the call they don't believe in Bigfoot. We have hundreds of reports and sightings of an even stranger cryptid roaming the forest Dogman I'd love to hear their response to that one.

[sensesonfire]

What academia requires for acknowledging Yowie/Bigfoot is a body and this has eluded science for centuries.
I know it has been repeated ad nauseam but we have no physical evidence no skeletal remains, no hair samples and footprints no they are not physical they are footprints.
A body is required to substantiate their existence even the flesh and blood theory cannot be proven until we have one.

We know they are real because they have been seen or visualised many times but once again this is no physical proof. many times they have displayed unexplained abilities when they have revealed themselves. Researchers say Oh, it's just capabilities they possess that humans don't understand yes they do and most people would call that paranormal. Exactly how is science going to prove otherwise even if they did have a body?
Their paranormal behaviour far exceeds any physical proof.

It is my conjecture that if a body is ever produced it will produce factual confirmation that will astound the academic world we all hope one is recovered eventually.